List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe94]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[The Dr]

Similar to the Chol one, I'm 100% open to hearing options. Would love to just have an upgrade on Dunstan and I reckon he is that. Thoughts on any other reasonably priced, gettable midfield depth?

I've called for Dow as an option before; he's definitely under appreciated. He's got faults but his strengths (speed, agility) actually bring a point of difference to our midfield.

He'd be better depth than Dunstan cos of this and wouldn't cost more than a fourth rounder.


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[Tulip]

He was also one of our best players when we won a flag. I find it strange that a few of the people suggesting we trade Oliver are also blaming Goody for our game style being no good. I don't think winning a few games without Oliver means we're better off without him, anymore than winning a few games with Grundy instead of Gawn means we should keep Brodie and trade Max. It seems a bit of a false equivalency for mine.

There is certainly a false equivalency between our run of attacking footy coming without Oliver and Oliver being any kind of reason for it ending. That had everything to do with Petty going down and Goodwin losing his nerve when we faced a rampaging Carlton by "going back to our brand".

 

[Lord Nev]

No idea, I don't really follow other clubs outside Melbourne. Just use a late pick to either trade or pick a developing ruck. I actually think rucks are overrated and if we are just lucky we have one of the best ever right now. If Max goes down we have Schache as the break glass at the moment.

Yep, I agree rucks are overrated in terms of hitouts etc, Max is amazing because of what he does around the ground - But, I do think that forward/ruck position is going to be important for us next year.

 

[Tulip]

I've called for Dow as an option before; he's definitely under appreciated. He's got faults but his strengths (speed, agility) actually bring a point of difference to our midfield.

He'd be better depth than Dunstan cos of this and wouldn't cost more than a fourth rounder.


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Dow would have been free at the bye. Had some really big games and impact as a sub, but Voss just doesn't rate him as a starter. Would be very keen, albeit I'm not sure we can offer him a starting role unless Brayshaw is out for the long term.

 

[Lord Nev]

Mindboggling isn't it. We were 1 poster going through away from a prelim. 2 conversions out of 72 away against the Pies. We got unlucky with injury. We got unlucky with conversion. Our midfield doesn't need a major overhaul. FFS. We've proven we are in the mix. We lost both finals by 9pts combined and arguably dominated both games really. Tweak the midfield mix a little, get a couple of capable forwards and we'll be in the mix again. Trading Oliver and massively overhauling the midfield are just mindless overreactions which I was getting sucked into myself. But watching the finals replays, we got unlucky mostly. Change a coach or two, get a few new faces on field, we go again.

Isaac Smith's comments, above in the footy show post, are spot on IMO. Basically says we just need to tinker around the edges and can't overreact in terms of the list.

 

[Lord Nev]

There is certainly a false equivalency between our run of attacking footy coming without Oliver and Oliver being any kind of reason for it ending. That had everything to do with Petty going down and Goodwin losing his nerve when we faced a rampaging Carlton by "going back to our brand".

My one knock on Goody this year would be that he went back into his shell too often. It's not just on him, we're very much a coaching committee, but he's the main man.

 

[Tulip]

Yep, I agree rucks are overrated in terms of hitouts etc, Max is amazing because of what he does around the ground - But, I do think that forward/ruck position is going to be important for us next year.

I really rate JVR there. He's got a great vertical leap and he's a competitive animal who needs the ball in his hands as often as possible. They need a settled forward 7 though, and that 7 needs to be full of guys who know their roles. Of the current lot, only Melksham, Fritsch and ANB seem to know theirs. Pickett struggles. Chandler has NFI whether he's a crumber or a flanker atm.

 

[Daemon]

Isaac Smith's comments, above in the footy show post, are spot on IMO. Basically says we just need to tinker around the edges and can't overreact in terms of the list.

I imagine that is exactly what we will do.

No harm is having a bit of speculative fun though.

 

[Mich0]

Well firstly, how about not trading our best player (4x Bluey) for 18 year olds, especially when people on the board are simultaneously complaining about our midfield depth.

Also, how about not trading our highest pick for an injured old key forward who would take up a huge chunk of our salary cap.

Then, very roughly, something like...

Grundy pick for McAdam and future 3rd.
Bundle up picks from Tomlinson and Harmes trades, plus maybe that future 3rd, to GC for Chol.
Trade pick 34 for Paddy Dow.
Have a look at some cheap key position injury cover like Hamling, Day, etc.
Brown retires, Jordon leaves, Melksham re-signs, D.Smith delisted, K.Turner and AMW re-sign.
Do some pick swaps, maybe using our future first, to ensure we have 3x top 20 picks and use them on best available.

Not saying any or all of that will happen, but that's a reasonably realistic off season for us IMO.

Suggestion was for Oscar Allen, not 18 year olds.

Fairly certain if we had Allen instead of Oliver over that finals campaign that we would be playing in a prelim against GWS next week.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Isaac Smith's comments, above in the footy show post, are spot on IMO. Basically says we just need to tinker around the edges and can't overreact in terms of the list.

Exactly. But what would he know!? He's only won multiple flags and Norms.

Keen to tinker with the forwardline a bit. But backline looks solid(I'd try holding onto Tommo) and the mids need rejigging a little. Have trust in Riv and Koz more. Maybe target 1 mid who has that outside pace and ball use. Trading Oliver suggestions are fn wild overreactions from the same people who point figures at people overreacting. I'd be looking at overhauling the coaching more than the midfielders themselves.

 

[Lord Nev]

I really rate JVR there. He's got a great vertical leap and he's a competitive animal who needs the ball in his hands as often as possible. They need a settled forward 7 though, and that 7 needs to be full of guys who know their roles. Of the current lot, only Melksham, Fritsch and ANB seem to know theirs. Pickett struggles. Chandler has NFI whether he's a crumber or a flanker atm.

Yeah I don't mind him as backup, has a bit of the Watts/Pedo ground ball work about him, but I think our list is missing one best 22 quality key forward. Doesn't have to be a gun, but just a mature body who is a better option than TMac. I'm sure Petty will at least start forward next year, so maybe it's a swingman or defender as well?

 

[Crusty Demon]

Suggestion was for Oscar Allen, not 18 year olds.

Fairly certain if we had Allen instead of Oliver over that finals campaign that we would be playing in a prelim against GWS next week.

If we had Petty or even Melksham we'd be playing in a prelim. Don't need to sell our best player for something we already have.

 

[Tulip]

Suggestion was for Oscar Allen, not 18 year olds.

Fairly certain if we had Allen instead of Oliver over that finals campaign that we would be playing in a prelim against GWS next week.

Mate if we had Mabior Chol we would have won on Friday.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Similar to the Chol one, I'm 100% open to hearing options. Would love to just have an upgrade on Dunstan and I reckon he is that. Thoughts on any other reasonably priced, gettable midfield depth?

I don’t think mature age midfield depth is a priority for this draft and trade period, would like to see Rivers become a midfielder, and I think Sparrow actually stepped up a bit in finals so can have a bit more time in there to cover Trac going forward.

Would like to see Chandler given some time to work on being able to do a few minutes in the centre because he has great skills.

At pick 34, I’d prefer to take a draftee mid/winger.

 

[Bluelegs]

Yeah great points. Definitely agree on the overspending too, which is why I kinda focused more on those role player types in my trade period scenario with high end draft talent coming in.

As much as Goody has copped it, I actually think he did a good job for the most part this year in adjusting our setup and style to make the most of our personnel. Having TMac and Smith as your key forwards does mean you need to consider that stuff as you mention above. We did still manage to generate enough opportunities to win in both finals, but it's on the players for not finishing when they should have. Need a lift from them this offseason in terms of commitment and time spent at the club IMO.

Goalkicking is weird. I remember when we were kicking them from everywhere at the start of the season Grundy said he'd never had a pre-season where goalkicking was such a focus. Then we couldn't hit the side of a barn for about 6 weeks in the middle of the year before going back to kicking everything late in the year and finally getting the yips again in finals. Don't have the stats or anything to back it up but I'd say in all those games we kicked like crap in front of goal most of our misses would have been from set shots. For whatever effort we put in we still have way too many guys who are terrible set shots.

 

[Lord Nev]

I don’t think mature age midfield depth is a priority for this draft and trade period, would like to see Rivers become a midfielder, and I think Sparrow actually stepped up a bit in finals so can have a bit more time in there to cover Trac going forward.

Would like to see Chandler given some time to work on being able to do a few minutes in the centre because he has great skills.

At pick 34, I’d prefer to take a draftee mid/winger.

I think with losing Jordon, Dunstan and Harmes (and a cloud over Gus) it definitely is a need for us this offseason.

I really like Howes and think he can be a wing option for us, and there's other options like Salem, Rivers and Chandler that we could give a try there also. That's if Goody isn't so stubborn that he just sticks with Langdon and Hunter again.

 

[Lord Nev]

Goalkicking is weird. I remember when we were kicking them from everywhere at the start of the season Grundy said he'd never had a pre-season where goalkicking was such a focus. Then we couldn't hit the side of a barn for about 6 weeks in the middle of the year before going back to kicking everything late in the year and finally getting the yips again in finals. Don't have the stats or anything to back it up but I'd say in all those games we kicked like crap in front of goal most of our misses would have been from set shots. For whatever effort we put in we still have way too many guys who are terrible set shots.

Absolutely. As much as I love him, there has to be some heat on (the recently re-signed) Choco for that. It's his specific area. There needs to be a lot of heat on the players as well though, the impression I've got is that there may be a number of them happy to do just the bare minimum in terms of hours at the club, extra skills etc, and that needs to change.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

I think with losing Jordon, Dunstan and Harmes (and a cloud over Gus) it definitely is a need for us this offseason.

I really like Howes and think he can be a wing option for us, and there's other options like Salem, Rivers and Chandler that we could give a try there also. That's if Goody isn't so stubborn that he just sticks with Langdon and Hunter again.

If you’re looking for Dunstan/Harmes level depth you can get someone as a rookie or delisted free agent. I think we need to aim for a bit more renewal with our draft picks in the top 40.

Someone will take Dow who want someone who can win some ball and break away from clearance and he might be ok for them, but he really is a genuinely bad kick.

 

[Lord Nev]

If you’re looking for Dunstan/Harmes level depth you can get someone as a rookie or delisted free agent. I think we need to aim for a bit more renewal with our draft picks in the top 40.

Someone will take Dow who want someone who can win some ball and break away from clearance and he might be ok for them, but he really is a genuinely bad kick.

I don't think we'll use any picks past around about 20ish. We'll look for 3 picks in the top 20.

I'm not looking for Harmes/Dunstan level, I'm looking for a slight improvement on them and IMO Dow would be that.

 

[Mich0]

We should sniff out offers for Laurie. If we could snare a 3rd rounder we should take it and run.

Begs beleif we traded a F1 for the pick to get him.

 

[Bluelegs]

We should sniff out offers for Laurie. If we could snare a 3rd rounder we should take it and run.

Begs beleif we traded a F1 for the pick to get him.

That's simplifying things a bit.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

That's simplifying things a bit.

Pretty sure we wanted Max Holmes and Bowey and cats jumped us to get Holmes.

 

[Dory_77]

On Lynch, if he came to us he'd have two years to run on a heavily back-loaded 7 year deal. He's coming off a major injury and is 30. Could easily see him being another Tmac/Brown situation.

I'd be cautious about spending a top 20 pick on him.

Agree. We've got enough blokes with dicky injuries; don't need another.

I don’t think mature age midfield depth is a priority for this draft and trade period, would like to see Rivers become a midfielder, and I think Sparrow actually stepped up a bit in finals so can have a bit more time in there to cover Trac going forward.

Would like to see Chandler given some time to work on being able to do a few minutes in the centre because he has great skills.

At pick 34, I’d prefer to take a draftee mid/winger.

Mostly agree with this too. Losing Dunstan, Harmes and JJ means we'd need at least one ready to go player there. But we also need to mix up the personnel more. Chandler, ANB, Kozzy, Rivers could all do more stints through there

 

[Bluelegs]

Pretty sure we wanted Max Holmes and Bowey and cats jumped us to get Holmes.

Also there was a lot more to that trade than just a ff. Plus we got back infront of that first to draft JVR anyway.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I don’t think mature age midfield depth is a priority for this draft and trade period, would like to see Rivers become a midfielder, and I think Sparrow actually stepped up a bit in finals so can have a bit more time in there to cover Trac going forward.

Would like to see Chandler given some time to work on being able to do a few minutes in the centre because he has great skills.

At pick 34, I’d prefer to take a draftee mid/winger.

Yeah, I think our good draft hand should be used trying to get quality kids in. We need some quality kids coming through. With a top 5 pick, we hopefully can bring in a ready made best 22 player. Whether that's forward or mid. I'll be disappointed if we use our strong draft hand to overpay for a Lynch etc. Petty and JVR look capable to me and Jefferson a bit of a wild card. McAdam is a good start. Need maybe 1 more goalkicker and that could be Watson through the draft. Unless we(fingers crossed) somehow have McKercher fall in our laps.

Geez I wish we'd landed Bailey Humphrey. McAdam, Humphrey, Watson, JVR, Fritta and Petty would be exciting tbh with Trac and Koz running through. Shows that if you target and recruit one or two of the right players, it can be the difference. Dunkley for Lions, McStay and Hill for Pies. It can be the difference between straight sets exit of GF bound.