List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

[Giant Strides]

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Here's the list of GWS players who are out of contract in 2023 (I'll progressively cross them out as they re-sign):

• Lachie ASH
• Callan WARD (Free Agent)
• Brayden PREUSS
• Tom GREEN
• Finn CALLAGHAN
• Lachlan KEEFFE (Free Agent)
• Jake RICCARDI
• Harry HIMMELBERG (Free Agent)
• Cam FLEETON - delisted (25/9/23)
• Matt FLYNN (Free Agent) - signed by West Coast as an Unrestricted Free Agent
• Xavier O'HALLORAN
• Jack BUCKLEY
• Callum BROWN

Rookie lists:

• Phil DAVIS (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Jacob WEHR (Free agent)
• Dan LLOYD (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
• Cooper HAMILTON
• Wade DERKSEN
• Nick MADDEN (Cat B) - assumed re-signed due to 2 sources of info
• Jason GILBEE (Cat B) - delisted (25/9/23)

Current list sizes (for when we get to list/draft/trade speculation):

• main list = 36 minus 3 (Fleeton, Flynn + Kennedy delisted with a view to be re-selected in the rookie draft)
• rookie A = 6 minus 2 (Davis, Lloyd)
• rookie B = 2 minus 1 (Gilbee)
• total = 44 minus 5

This is the future pick spreadsheet that comes into play only at trade time, as future picks are used in end of season (2023) trading:


Here's the 2023 AFL Academy Squad, so these (roughly) represent the best players for next year as they stand now:

2023 NAB AFL ACADEMY​

NAME	SURNAME	STATE	STATE LEAGUE CLUB	COMMUNITY CLUB
Lachlan	Cabor	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Shellharbour
Nate	Caddy	VIC M	Northern Knights	Yarrambat
Jack	Callinan	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Clarence
Caiden	Cleary	NSW/ACT	Sydney Swans Academy	Sydney University
Daniel	Curtin	WA	Claremont	West Coast
Jack	Delean	SA	South Adelaide	Reynella
Zane	Duursma	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Foster
Mitchell	Edwards	WA	Peel Thunder	South Mandurah
William	Green	VIC M	Northern Knights	Northcote
Riley	Hardeman	WA	Swan Districts	Caversham
William	Lorenz	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Boroondara Hawks
Kane	McAuliffe	SA	North Adelaide	Central Augusta
Colby	McKercher	TAS	Tasmania Devils	Launceston
Ashton	Moir	SA	Glenelg	Plympton
Connor	O'Sullivan	NSW/ACT	Murray Bushrangers	Albury
William	Patton	SA	West Adelaide	Mitcham
Nathan	Philactides	VIC M	Oakleigh Chargers	Blackburn
Ethan	Read	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Archer	Reid	VIC C	Gippsland Power	Inverloch-Kongwak
Harley	Reid	VIC C	Bendigo Pioneers	Tongala
Archie	Roberts	VIC M	Sandringham Dragons	Hampton Rovers
Jake	Rogers	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Broadbeach
Ryley	Sanders	TAS	Sandringham Dragons	North Launceston
Cooper	Simpson	VIC C	Dandenong Stingrays	Mount Martha
George	Stevens	VIC C	GWV Rebels	South Warrnambool
Koltyn	Tholstrup	WA	Subiaco	Newtown-Condingup
Orlando	Turner	NT	West Adelaide	South Alice Springs
Jed	Walter	QLD	Gold Coast Suns Academy	Palm Beach Currumbin
Nick	Watson	VIC M	Eastern Ranges	East Ringwood
Darcy	Wilson	VIC C	Murray Bushrangers	Wangaratta Rovers

Happy speculating for 2023!

EDIT: 11/12/22 - Added Free Agent status to OOC player list
EDIT: 24/2/23 - Crossed out Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo!!) & Added 2023 Coates Talent League Fixture Link
EDIT: 27/2/23 - Crossed out Finn Callaghan from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo Hoo!!!)
EDIT: 27/4/23 - Crossed out Jacob Wehr from OOC player list
EDIT: 10/5/23 - Crossed out Jack Buckley from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/7/23 - Crossed out Callum Brown from OOC player list
EDIT: 18/7/23 - Crossed out Lachie Ash from OOC player list
EDIT: 20/7/23 - Crossed out Xavier O'Halloran from OOC player list
EDIT: 3/8/23 - Crossed out Harry Himmelberg from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/8/23 - Crossed out Wade Derksen from OOC player list
EDIT: 17/8/23 - Noted Dan Lloyd retiring at end of season
EDIT: 19/8/23 - Crossed out Jake Riccardi from OOC player list
EDIT: 28/8/23 - Noted Phil Davis

1

Phil Davis

Age

34

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.7

4star

MG

55.5

1star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

55.5

1star

D

14.0

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

retiring at end of season
EDIT: 25/9/23 - Noted Cam Fleeton & Jason Gilbee delisted
EDIT: 4/10/23 - Noted Flynn, Preuss & Keeffe situations
EDIT: 9/10/23 - Updated Flynn to WCE, removed Preuss from OOC player list
EDIT: 12/10/23 - Updated Madden with 2 sources of information
EDIT: 19/10/23 - Updated Keeffe & Hamilton re-signed
EDIT: 31/10/23 - adjusted main list numbers with Adam Kennedy

40

Adam Kennedy

Age

32

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.9

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

245.6

4star

D

1.0

1star

K

1.0

1star

HB

0.0

1star

M

0.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

10.0

1star

D

18.6

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.4

4star

delisting (with a view to be re-selected in rookie draft)

 

[Andre the Giant]

We've got 4 years until Tassie comes in, and 3 years contract for a first round selection. If they don't sign more than 1 year extension in that time, we'll know they're planning to leave.

I would think we're up to our eyeballs in flag contention for the next 4 years. Green, Cogs, Whitfield, Kelly & Hogan hit that 32 to 34 mark, so if Leake/Sanders could help us get a flag and then leaves ... I can live with that (as Bulldogs live with Tom Boyd retiring).

Of course, we want/need them to stay beyond that, but you would expect that whatever system the AFL uses, there will be reasonable compensation to the losing club.

Tassie will be tricky, they will pretty much need to allow them to keep all the local kids as I just think it will be so hard for them to attract guns in the 22-27 bracket.

Older guys will go for a sea change or to keep their careers going but it is a very hard sell to young people. FFs we are a hard sell and we are basically inner west Sydney with players living in eastern suburbs inner west and lower nth shore!!

It probably is enough time.

 

[Teeso]

His certainly a talent but would be more open to grabbing him if that pick stayed in the top 20 and was locked straight into 3 year deal.

But if we wanted that type of player and our pick was outside the top 20 would look more at Gothard.

I like him, looks like a hard worker, quick and nimble. My only gripe, which is not necessarily even a bad thing, is that he runs and plays alot like Binga. Hunts the ball, reliable and a great 'assist', team-first player. The club may in fact choose for that I suppose.

But in an ideal world, I would choose a starting forward line with 4 small forwards. 3 that play like Binga/Bedford/O'Hallaran - reliable, quick, disciplined and industrious and 1 that has x-factor and flare. Jones and and McMullin still fall into that first category of small forward for me.

Greene and Cal Brown we are probably using as more that hybrid X-factor player up front. Brown is still inconsistent, can mark and run but set shot kicking is unreliable and lacks creativity in my eyes. He is relatively new to AFL so can completely understand why that is the case. We all know what Greene can do, he is creative, amazing footy IQ, adept in air/on ground and unpredictable. I would hope as Greene ages, Collard could fill that role. Collard has that almost audacious, offensive minded, creative swagger which is often the point of difference in those high impact low possession, game changing small forwards. They truly believe they can kick a goal from anywhere, and their opposition also believes that. Has that Shai Bolton, Betts, Papley, Charlie Cameron, Chapman, Bobby Hill and Rioli vibe about him. Watching him play, can't tell whether he wants to attack the ground ball, go for a speccy, shoot for goal or pass it off. His plays create opportunity out of nowhere and would give the element of unpredictability to an otherwise level-headed, consistent and well-drilled forward line.

 

[GWS Goose]

His certainly a talent but would be more open to grabbing him if that pick stayed in the top 20 and was locked straight into 3 year deal.

But if we wanted that type of player and our pick was outside the top 20 would look more at Gothard.

purely based on his name, I hope he makes it.

 

[GWS Goose]

There should be some slight concern about the star Tassie kids, not so much in the short term however let’s face it, the AFL is the king of managed outcomes, you can bet your life they will have the kitchen sink thrown at any Tassie born talent for their new clubs with all sorts of under the table ambassadorial shite.

Yes there will be compensation but it will happen and it will be disruptive.

We ourselves were the beneficiaries of this during our build and the Devils or whatever they are called will be the same.

That said, we are in the window now and I suspect our prime tilt will be over the next 3 years so it may not matter? Leake does look interesting!

there is a risk with every player.
The fact that you get 4 years before Tassie come in is better than the lure of an existing side.
That said, for a Tassie kid, being part of that first Tasmanian team is quite a lure

 

[PMBangers]

Leake, Schoenmaker and McKercher all said in RMC interivews/ conversations during the year that they essentially can't wait to leave Tassie and don't, right now at least, feel a lure to return. They haven't even been drafted yet and everyone in Launceston recognises and knows them, think there's a desire to either a)be a big name in a more fun city, or b) go somewhere they won't be so well known for some anonymity when they're on a night out

 

[Andre the Giant]

Leake, Schoenmaker and McKercher all said in RMC interivews/ conversations during the year that they essentially can't wait to leave Tassie and don't, right now at least, feel a lure to return. They haven't even been drafted yet and everyone in Launceston recognises and knows them, think there's a desire to either a)be a big name in a more fun city, or b) go somewhere they won't be so well known for some anonymity when they're on a night out

Not sure you can even have a night out in Tassie without being arrested and struck multiple times with a cat o’nine tales??

 

[GWS Goose]

I have now heard us linked to Charlie Edwards with our natural first round selection likely to end up late teens.

Until I read this, other than hearing his name, I know nothing about him.

Anyone have any thoughts on this selection?

PMBangers obviously this is your wheel house.

the reports I read are that he is athletic midfielder who can break out of contests. That sounds good, but of course this is a snippet

 

[Orange crush]

I have now heard us linked to Charlie Edwards with our natural first round selection likely to end up late teens.

Until I read this, other than hearing his name, I know nothing about him.

Anyone have any thoughts on this selection?

PMBangers obviously this is your wheel house.

the reports I read are that he is athletic midfielder who can break out of contests. That sounds good, but of course this is a snippet

I've seen the same ... be keen to get PMB's input as well

 

[Giant Strides]

I have now heard us linked to Charlie Edwards with our natural first round selection likely to end up late teens.

Until I read this, other than hearing his name, I know nothing about him.

Anyone have any thoughts on this selection?

I've seen the same ... be keen to get PMB's input as well

Have a read of the Rookie Me Central write-up (unsure if PMB did that one): Charlie Edwards

Here's some snippets:

Edwards boasts a pair of clean hands, nice burst speed and a skillset to match.

His upside is evident in his rate of development thus far, and for a player not on the radar early, he is certainly on a lot of clubs’ lips now.

He's rated by the team at RMC as #23, but he's a massive bolter, having not played in the U18 championships, and only having received a State Combine call-up rather than National Combine. He's 191 cms, which seems to attract some attention, but his other stats are just mid-range.

He seems to be one who is gaining attention - from media at least - so could be in our frame at #16 (pushed into the 20s), but it seems to me to be based on a lot of ... potential. (It just strikes me as a discontinuity, at times, that players who have done the hard yards at U18 Championships, averaged 25-odd disposals, drop down the draft order based on "potential" i.e. people think they've peaked and will get worse, while the untried get pushed largely on the back of potential. But we won't know who was right for several years!)

 

[GWS Goose]

(It just strikes me as a discontinuity, at times, that players who have done the hard yards at U18 Championships, averaged 25-odd disposals, drop down the draft order based on "potential" i.e. people think they've peaked and will get worse, while the untried get pushed largely on the back of potential. But we won't know who was right for several years!)

I've worked in development and pathways in both Rugby codes and this annoys me alot!
It is a different system obviously in the other codes compared to the AFL where you dont have the draft.
But a number of times looking to pick a rep side or move into the next stage and we'll watch a bloke carve up and there are arguments we should pick a less performed player because of potential or that the high performers skill wont make it at the next level.

2 players that went onto play origin were almost excluded from underage Squads despite being the best player. One to small, the other apparently only good because he was big. I won the argument (obviously not the only one advocating for them) on those 2 and they haven't looked back. I've lost plenty of others and often wonder, if they were given the chance where would they be.

in my experience, the players who have consistently performed well are far more reliable and more likely to make it than someone with all the parts and potential but hasnt put it together.

The example I always use is Allan Langer. If he was running around in a schoolboys carnival or U/18 comp he would be killing it. But the modern day recruiters definitely wouldnt pick him. He was too small, didnt tackle properly, had a funny kicking style and wasnt very fast. They leave out the most important part, he can play football! How many Allan Langers have we over looked.
Cody Walker was overlooked a lot depsite dominating everywhere he played till he got a chance.

In AFL, Greg Williams and Sam Mitchell would be good examples of players who may not get a chance (and almost didnt) as they dont fit the mould. Again, I wonder how many more have been overlooked.

 

[PMBangers]

I have now heard us linked to Charlie Edwards with our natural first round selection likely to end up late teens.

Until I read this, other than hearing his name, I know nothing about him.

Anyone have any thoughts on this selection?

PMBangers obviously this is your wheel house.

the reports I read are that he is athletic midfielder who can break out of contests. That sounds good, but of course this is a snippet

I've seen the same ... be keen to get PMB's input as well

I don't mind him but I view him more as a winger rather than centre square mid, unless there's significant improvement in his stoppage craft as he can be quite reactionary in his movement rather than moving to where the ball's going to be, and he probably doesn't use his size as well as he could currently either. In terms of positive, he's damaging by foot, covers ground well and can take an overhead mark pretty well, the speed is a point of contention (and brings about the question of how much weight do you put into combine testing v on field) but his top flight is clearly very good.

As mentioned by GS the rate of development, which came about from his switch into the midfield/ wing, is really impressive and seems to be something our recruiters like, for similar reasons I could see us taking Tew Jiath.

Overall I still think I'm not as high on him as most, and I admittedly overrate Sandringham prospects something shocking, but reality is that he'll likely be the Best Available midfielder at that point and we're unlikely to pick one, or at least one with strong inside game, early. Depending on who else is available I'd likely kick the can down the road on a midfielder for 2024, but I'm not a decision maker

Have a read of the Rookie Me Central write-up (unsure if PMB did that one): Charlie Edwards

Here's some snippets:

Edwards boasts a pair of clean hands, nice burst speed and a skillset to match.

His upside is evident in his rate of development thus far, and for a player not on the radar early, he is certainly on a lot of clubs’ lips now.

He's rated by the team at RMC as #23, but he's a massive bolter, having not played in the U18 championships, and only having received a State Combine call-up rather than National Combine. He's 191 cms, which seems to attract some attention, but his other stats are just mid-range.

He seems to be one who is gaining attention - from media at least - so could be in our frame at #16 (pushed into the 20s), but it seems to me to be based on a lot of ... potential. (It just strikes me as a discontinuity, at times, that players who have done the hard yards at U18 Championships, averaged 25-odd disposals, drop down the draft order based on "potential" i.e. people think they've peaked and will get worse, while the untried get pushed largely on the back of potential. But we won't know who was right for several years!)

I've worked in development and pathways in both Rugby codes and this annoys me alot!
It is a different system obviously in the other codes compared to the AFL where you dont have the draft.
But a number of times looking to pick a rep side or move into the next stage and we'll watch a bloke carve up and there are arguments we should pick a less performed player because of potential or that the high performers skill wont make it at the next level.

2 players that went onto play origin were almost excluded from underage Squads despite being the best player. One to small, the other apparently only good because he was big. I won the argument (obviously not the only one advocating for them) on those 2 and they haven't looked back. I've lost plenty of others and often wonder, if they were given the chance where would they be.

in my experience, the players who have consistently performed well are far more reliable and more likely to make it than someone with all the parts and potential but hasnt put it together.

The example I always use is Allan Langer. If he was running around in a schoolboys carnival or U/18 comp he would be killing it. But the modern day recruiters definitely wouldnt pick him. He was too small, didnt tackle properly, had a funny kicking style and wasnt very fast. They leave out the most important part, he can play football! How many Allan Langers have we over looked.
Cody Walker was overlooked a lot depsite dominating everywhere he played till he got a chance.

In AFL, Greg Williams and Sam Mitchell would be good examples of players who may not get a chance (and almost didnt) as they dont fit the mould. Again, I wonder how many more have been overlooked.

I think the lack of Champs is the main thing that could hold him back from going in the top 15 or so, and to put it bluntly he missed out on Champs because he was a pretty garbage half back flanker.

On potential v performance specifically, I don't think anyone's worrying about good performances now = limited ceiling, it's a lot of factors including but not limited to; athleticism, play style, body development. Someone like Sanders is probably the only one from this year that cops this unfairly, but go and watch guys like Clay Hall, Caiden Cleary, George Stevens, Will Brown (high accumulators at Champs) and tell me they truly excite you more than a Darcy Wilson, Caleb Windsor, James Leake, etc. that don't get eye watering numbers.

It's unfortunate but it is a straight fact that running power and efficient skills are becoming non-negotiable at the top level given how important turn overs and transition game is now, if a guy is winning it 25 times but offers nothing but blind kicks or loopy handballs they're essentially a non-factor, if you're a high accumulator you have to use it well, get away from opposition with athleticism, or hit the scoreboard/ get score involvements consistently. Williams and Mitchell would still fit because they had elite disposal

 

[PaythePerryman]

CADDY CADDY CADDY CADDY CADDY

These are my current thoughts

 

[PMBangers]

FWIW I do truly believe it'll be one of Leake, Windsor or O'Sullivan for us

 

[Orange crush]

FWIW I do truly believe it'll be one of Leake, Windsor or O'Sullivan for us

If Sanders slides we’d take him first, though?

 

[PMBangers]

If Sanders slides we’d take him first, though?

Not sure, I think we'd be resigned to the fact he's 95% chance not to be there

 

[captainMyCaptain]

FWIW I do truly believe it'll be one of Leake, Windsor or O'Sullivan for us

Twomey in the last episode of Gettable did mention in passing that we're probably considering Caddy Vs Windsor.
But as always time will tell.

 

[PaythePerryman]

I think it's Caddy v Leake.
I don't think Sanders will be there but I don't think they'll pick him anyway.

I think it's probably too high to take Leake but hey....
O'Sullivan sure. Can't be angry at it I guess it's just not very exciting for right now.

 

[Bjo187]

FWIW I do truly believe it'll be one of Leake, Windsor or O'Sullivan for us

Windsor would really fit into Kingsley' s system. Lightning quick and arguably the best kick in the draft. Is very outside though, would be an ideal winger and could stay there for life.

 

[PMBangers]

Windsor would really fit into Kingsley' s system. Lightning quick and arguably the best kick in the draft. Is very outside though, would be an ideal winger and could stay there for life.

Operation get Finn IN (the centre square) ready to go

 

[GWS Goose]

Ive seen one phantom with Curtin sliding to us.

In that case, surely we just take him?

 

[Bjo187]

Operation get Finn IN (the centre square) ready to go

The combination of Callaghan/Green will hopefully be a Petracca/Oliver equivalent in the future. I was watching the prelim final replay the other day and gee he has some wheels for his height, it's underrated.

 

[PaythePerryman]

The combination of Callaghan/Green will hopefully be a Petracca/Oliver equivalent in the future. I was watching the prelim final replay the other day and gee he has some wheels for his height, it's underrated.

He's an absolute unit. Gonna be a problem

 

[Hendo_21]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' November ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey delivers his fifth Phantom Form Guide ahead of the 2023 National Draft

www.afl.com.au

Final rankings. Linked to Caddy, Windsor, O'Sullivan, Jiath, Gothard, Leake, Tholstrup, DeMattia.

All seem to fit the athletic mold of what we normally target, most of those guys were strong performers at the combine. Versatility also seems to be a theme with a lot of them having the ability to play multiple roles across different lines. Speed is common trait of all these guys.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' November ranking

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey delivers his fifth Phantom Form Guide ahead of the 2023 National Draft

www.afl.com.au

Final rankings. Linked to Caddy, Windsor, O'Sullivan, Jiath, Gothard, Leake, Tholstrup, DeMattia.

All seem to fit the athletic mold of what we normally target, most of those guys were strong performers at the combine. Versatility also seems to be a theme with a lot of them having the ability to play multiple roles across different lines. Speed is common trait of all these guys.

It's starting to look like unless something unexpected happens we have narrowed our first selection down to Caddy, Windsor, Leake or O'Sullivan.

 

[Hendo_21]

It's starting to look like unless something unexpected happens we have narrowed our first selection down to Caddy, Windsor, Leake or O'Sullivan.

Still not sure I get O'Sullivan unless they're nervous either of Buckley or Taylor is going to walk? Both are still young and are already elite, HH is elite as a third tall in is signed long term as well. By the time O'Sullivan is good in a couple years Taylor and Buckley and are going to be bang in their prime and there's going to be no room for O'Sullivan. He would have to hit such a high level in order to play regular games. I understand wanting depth behind Taylor and Buckley but spending a top 10 pick on depth that very well might walk in a couple years because he can't get a game is not a good move. Would be fine using the Flynn compo pick on a tall that can develop in the background but there might not be a team in the competition that is more set long term at KPD than us. O'Sullivan could turn into a top 10 key defender in the comp and it probably still isn't good enough for him to play, if they have a good feeling that Taylor is going to get a massive offer from somewhere else that we can't compete with or he has his eyes elsewhere then would totally understand it but at least from the outside looking in both guys seem pretty set at the club, would imagine Taylor is one of the future captain candidates once Toby steps down in a few years.