Training 2023 Preseason + training discussion

[mightymouse75]

100% should always be looking how to improve keep the team competitive. It is why I don't favour the big ticket trades, because it tends to drain the capital too much and forces you down the rebuild path.

Just look at geelong.
Sell high and buy low.
Always have youth in the background waiting for their go.

 

[Ysaye]

Just look at geelong.
Sell high and buy low.
Always have youth in the background waiting for their go.

I agree although to do this you (and your club's supporters) have to have an open mind about what you are willing to trade to get that good youth in the background. That might mean for example:

(1) Trading Brennan Cox at his peak for a stash of good picks, because Hugh Davies shows good progress and you have staples in Pearce and Chapman
(2) Trading Sean Darcy when he hits being a top 3 ruckman, simply because Jackson / Knobel are good enough and are gameplan doesn't revolve around having dominant ruckmen.
(3) At some point trading Serong back to a Melbourne club, because we already have a strong midfield division.

The reality is that just by suggesting the above hypotheticals I will probably earn a heap of dislikes and maybe a season ban. But to continue on to things less controversial, I am getting the feeling already that players like Treacy, Henry and Sturt (if they had good seasons and other teams wanted them) would be on the trade table pretty quickly. Moreover, if someone wanted Frederick, Shultz or Switkowski for slightly overs, they would also be on the trade table pretty quick smart.

Another bit we would need to do is carefully assess our older champion players; in many senses I feel our biggest risks coming into this season are how we deal with Walters and Fyfe. There is a decent chance that they will be strong contributors which is great from a list perspective, but if their form falls away and there are others pressing for the same positions, then we will also need to be ruthlessly quick at the selection table if we want to remain in the hunt.

 

[Docker82]

100% should always be looking how to improve keep the team competitive. It is why I don't favour the big ticket trades, because it tends to drain the capital too much and forces you down the rebuild path.

We barely traded in the time I mentioned both in and out tbh. Times have changed. Most trades were very low cost in that period tbh:

• In: Mzungu, Faulks, Griffin, Gumbleton, Bennell (FA/PSD - Anthony, Dawson, Pearce, Sylvia)
• Out: Tarrant, Palmer.

I’m of the opinion that the vast majority of the time if you’re not trading decent assets said player is probably not worth bringing in. The era of salary dump trades is starting so this opinion is very much being challenged.

Still reasonably confident we have enough good picks to find one or two good players.

Also got to remember free agency didn’t exist until 2012, neither did trading of future picks, FS/Academy bids etc. There’s more avenues to add decent players than there’s ever been and there’s more ways to find extra draft picks without trading existing players.

 

[Ge3ks]

The West just loves to troll Freo;

LOOKING SHARP
Fremantle trade target now ‘scary’ fit in monster pre-season

He might have been just minutes away from joining Fremantle, but Jeremy Sharp is throwing himself into Gold Coast’s pre-season so intently, he’s now so fit he could play two games back-to-back.

Fremantle trade target now ‘scary’ fit in monster pre-season

He might have been just minutes away from joining Fremantle, but Jeremy Sharp is throwing himself into Gold Coast’s pre-season so intently, he’s now so fit he could play two games back-to-back.

thewest.com.au

That's pretty fit.

 

[Quazar]

The West just loves to troll Freo;

LOOKING SHARP
Fremantle trade target now ‘scary’ fit in monster pre-season

He might have been just minutes away from joining Fremantle, but Jeremy Sharp is throwing himself into Gold Coast’s pre-season so intently, he’s now so fit he could play two games back-to-back.

Fremantle trade target now ‘scary’ fit in monster pre-season

He might have been just minutes away from joining Fremantle, but Jeremy Sharp is throwing himself into Gold Coast’s pre-season so intently, he’s now so fit he could play two games back-to-back.

thewest.com.au

That's pretty fit.

the West reaching all new levels of dumb. Respect, that's not easy to do

 

[Quazar]

Some of you guys we’d to calm your farm.

is that what you do when you need to be calm on your farm. Smoke the we'd..?!?!

 

[Superkoops]

Well done Sharp 2 games in a row. Super level of fitness for the young man. Great pick-up from the West. We are really struggling to find players that can play two games in a row.

 

[wakojako]

Any info on how Stubbs has been performing?

 

[DocT]

I agree although to do this you (and your club's supporters) have to have an open mind about what you are willing to trade to get that good youth in the background. That might mean for example:

(1) Trading Brennan Cox at his peak for a stash of good picks, because Hugh Davies shows good progress and you have staples in Pearce and Chapman
(2) Trading Sean Darcy when he hits being a top 3 ruckman, simply because Jackson / Knobel are good enough and are gameplan doesn't revolve around having dominant ruckmen.
(3) At some point trading Serong back to a Melbourne club, because we already have a strong midfield division.

The reality is that just by suggesting the above hypotheticals I will probably earn a heap of dislikes and maybe a season ban. But to continue on to things less controversial, I am getting the feeling already that players like Treacy, Henry and Sturt (if they had good seasons and other teams wanted them) would be on the trade table pretty quickly. Moreover, if someone wanted Frederick, Shultz or Switkowski for slightly overs, they would also be on the trade table pretty quick smart.

Another bit we would need to do is carefully assess our older champion players; in many senses I feel our biggest risks coming into this season are how we deal with Walters and Fyfe. There is a decent chance that they will be strong contributors which is great from a list perspective, but if their form falls away and there are others pressing for the same positions, then we will also need to be ruthlessly quick at the selection table if we want to remain in the hunt.

Very provocative Ysaye. I gotta admit I instinctively rebel against your proposals but they are very smart. Letting A graders go, especially babies that we have hand reared from birth, is really difficult. But that approach might be the only path to sustained dominance.

 

[Docker82]

Very provocative Ysaye. I gotta admit I instinctively rebel against your proposals but they are very smart. Letting A graders go, especially babies that we have hand reared from birth, is really difficult. But that approach might be the only path to sustained dominance.

If it goes wrong though it could cost you a flag.

In practice it's not always the older player that gets moved on. See Logue last year for example.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The last couple of articles from The West have to be a result of that new Sports Editor they brought in right? Those articles are straight trolling and a new low from them.

 

[DocT]

Well done Sharp 2 games in a row. Super level of fitness for the young man. Great pick-up from the West. We are really struggling to find players that can play two games in a row.

I'm not sure but I think the quote might mean he could play a full game and still have enough to run straight out and play another full game.

 

[DocT]

If it goes wrong though it could cost you a flag.

In practice it's not always the older player that gets moved on. See Logue last year for example.

That's what makes it interesting - He who dares wins...or burns.

 

[Joao]

Just look at geelong.
Sell high and buy low.
Always have youth in the background waiting for their go.

Geelong have been an exception largely filled by outrageously good longevity, great FA/trade acquisitions and some shrewd drafting but their fall will still come. Once they suck, suddenly the Geelong lifestyle won't seem that appealing either.

We barely traded in the time I mentioned both in and out tbh. Times have changed. Most trades were very low cost in that period tbh:

• In: Mzungu, Faulks, Griffin, Gumbleton, Bennell (FA/PSD - Anthony, Dawson, Pearce, Sylvia)
• Out: Tarrant, Palmer.

I’m of the opinion that the vast majority of the time if you’re not trading decent assets said player is probably not worth bringing in. The era of salary dump trades is starting so this opinion is very much being challenged.

Still reasonably confident we have enough good picks to find one or two good players.

Also got to remember free agency didn’t exist until 2012, neither did trading of future picks, FS/Academy bids etc. There’s more avenues to add decent players than there’s ever been and there’s more ways to find extra draft picks without trading existing players.

No doubt, our drafting was just shocking in that period which is why we fell off a cliff. I more refer to other teams that have tried to stay/become relevant. Geelong is the sole example of throwing lots of picks at quality players with an older squad and it still took many years to win a flag.

FA are fine obviously, as long as you don't overdo the salary.

Any info on how Stubbs has been performing?

Dominates tiktok apparently.

 

[Dockeroo]

As Andy Williams once famously sang, it really is the most wonderful time of the year - to be an AFL fan. People are currently high as a kite on optimism, but I try to remember that 17 other clubs fans are in the same boat. Nobody thinks their club is finishing bottom 6 yet there will be 6 teams down there. There’s probably 14 sides realistically believing they can play finals and setting out schedules and marking down target games to win in their internal calendars with their coaching staff to get to the 13/14 win mark to guarantee a spot in the eight.
It’s no harm to have a bit of perspective on what some of these players can achieve in 2023. Expectations for players such as Sturt and Henry need to be realistic, they are in career survival mode and if they are still on an AFL list anywhere in 2024 it will have been a good season for them. Pumping up Erasmus and Johnson is fine too but let’s see them play 10-15 games in the actual AFL before boldly claiming we won the draft night in 2021. They both have great potential based on their late season WAFL form but also have a long road to travel to even equal what the likes of Serong and Brayshaw have done already.
It’s damn ****ing hard to play even 100 AFL games and most don’t make it there. I was listening to the latest Restump pod earlier and found myself agreeing strongly with the Chief when the other guy was almost indignant that Fyfe hasn’t stepped aside yet as captain. Jojo wanted Alex Pearce to be captain. Now to me it’s doesn’t matter a rats ass who is the captain and if there isn’t a good reason to remove it from Fyfe then don’t. Pearce has played a season and a half of good footy for us and I’m not sure we need him to be appointed official captain just yet. People often love the shiny new toy but the clubs greatest ever player has earned the right to be captain (if he wants to) well ahead of any other player, for at least one more year and probably longer.
It’s always handy to listen to other clubs supporters before season starts to get a feel for where we think we are at. For example, I asked a bulldogs supporting mate who watches plenty of footy including us who would finish higher this year - us or Richmond, and he said richmond after some thought. He remarked that he didn't trust our forwards to kick enough goals and Richmond have strengthened a lot in the trade period.
I disagreed with him on the basis that our organic improvement though youth should be better than Richmond’s as we have more young, improving players than them. But I wouldn’t put money on it either. He has a very reasonable viewpoint.
Injuries will play a massive role in 2023 as always. Last year was well below average for us and I really hope we don’t regress to the mean this season.
Overall I’m cautiously optimistic, but there’s a lot of uncertainty around freo and I think we are one of the hardest clubs to confidently predict in 2023.
As for the West Australian - fcuk those assholes. Since Duffield left I would have Zero interest in what anyone else there thinks of Freo.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

As Andy Williams once famously sang, it really is the most wonderful time of the year - to be an AFL fan. People are currently high as a kite on optimism, but I try to remember that 17 other clubs fans are in the same boat. Nobody thinks their club is finishing bottom 6 yet there will be 6 teams down there. There’s probably 14 sides realistically believing they can play finals and setting out schedules and marking down target games to win in their internal calendars with their coaching staff to get to the 13/14 win mark to guarantee a spot in the eight.
It’s no harm to have a bit of perspective on what some of these players can achieve in 2023. Expectations for players such as Sturt and Henry need to be realistic, they are in career survival mode and if they are still on an AFL list anywhere in 2024 it will have been a good season for them. Pumping up Erasmus and Johnson is fine too but let’s see them play 10-15 games in the actual AFL before boldly claiming we won the draft night in 2021. They both have great potential based on their late season WAFL form but also have a long road to travel to even equal what the likes of Serong and Brayshaw have done already.
It’s damn ******* hard to play even 100 AFL games and most don’t make it there. I was listening to the latest Restump pod earlier and found myself agreeing strongly with the Chief when the other guy was almost indignant that Fyfe hasn’t stepped aside yet as captain. Jojo wanted Alex Pearce to be captain. Now to me it’s doesn’t matter a rats ass who is the captain and if there isn’t a good reason to remove it from Fyfe then don’t. Pearce has played a season and a half of good footy for us and I’m not sure we need him to be appointed official captain just yet. People often love the shiny new toy but the clubs greatest ever player has earned the right to be captain (if he wants to) well ahead of any other player, for at least one more year and probably longer.
It’s always handy to listen to other clubs supporters before season starts to get a feel for where we think we are at. For example, I asked a bulldogs supporting mate who watches plenty of footy including us who would finish higher this year - us or Richmond, and he said richmond after some thought. He remarked that he didn't trust our forwards to kick enough goals and Richmond have strengthened a lot in the trade period.
I disagreed with him on the basis that our organic improvement though youth should be better than Richmond’s as we have more young, improving players than them. But I wouldn’t put money on it either. He has a very reasonable viewpoint.
Injuries will play a massive role in 2023 as always. Last year was well below average for us and I really hope we don’t regress to the mean this season.
Overall I’m cautiously optimistic, but there’s a lot of uncertainty around freo and I think we are one of the hardest clubs to confidently predict in 2023.
As for the West Australian - fcuk those assholes. Since Duffield left I would have Zero interest in what anyone else there thinks of Freo.

Sorry , but who is Andy Williams?

 

[DocT]

As Andy Williams once famously sang, it really is the most wonderful time of the year - to be an AFL fan. People are currently high as a kite on optimism, but I try to remember that 17 other clubs fans are in the same boat. Nobody thinks their club is finishing bottom 6 yet there will be 6 teams down there. There’s probably 14 sides realistically believing they can play finals and setting out schedules and marking down target games to win in their internal calendars with their coaching staff to get to the 13/14 win mark to guarantee a spot in the eight.
It’s no harm to have a bit of perspective on what some of these players can achieve in 2023. Expectations for players such as Sturt and Henry need to be realistic, they are in career survival mode and if they are still on an AFL list anywhere in 2024 it will have been a good season for them. Pumping up Erasmus and Johnson is fine too but let’s see them play 10-15 games in the actual AFL before boldly claiming we won the draft night in 2021. They both have great potential based on their late season WAFL form but also have a long road to travel to even equal what the likes of Serong and Brayshaw have done already.
It’s damn ******* hard to play even 100 AFL games and most don’t make it there. I was listening to the latest Restump pod earlier and found myself agreeing strongly with the Chief when the other guy was almost indignant that Fyfe hasn’t stepped aside yet as captain. Jojo wanted Alex Pearce to be captain. Now to me it’s doesn’t matter a rats ass who is the captain and if there isn’t a good reason to remove it from Fyfe then don’t. Pearce has played a season and a half of good footy for us and I’m not sure we need him to be appointed official captain just yet. People often love the shiny new toy but the clubs greatest ever player has earned the right to be captain (if he wants to) well ahead of any other player, for at least one more year and probably longer.
It’s always handy to listen to other clubs supporters before season starts to get a feel for where we think we are at. For example, I asked a bulldogs supporting mate who watches plenty of footy including us who would finish higher this year - us or Richmond, and he said richmond after some thought. He remarked that he didn't trust our forwards to kick enough goals and Richmond have strengthened a lot in the trade period.
I disagreed with him on the basis that our organic improvement though youth should be better than Richmond’s as we have more young, improving players than them. But I wouldn’t put money on it either. He has a very reasonable viewpoint.
Injuries will play a massive role in 2023 as always. Last year was well below average for us and I really hope we don’t regress to the mean this season.
Overall I’m cautiously optimistic, but there’s a lot of uncertainty around freo and I think we are one of the hardest clubs to confidently predict in 2023.
As for the West Australian - fcuk those assholes. Since Duffield left I would have Zero interest in what anyone else there thinks of Freo.

Superb post Dockeroo. You were such an even handed level-head and then that last line - kapow!
I agree with you about (over)optimism.
Maybe I'm sticking my neck out but I think 2023 genuinely promises something to be optimistic about.
In 2022 pretty well every expert way underestimated us Dockers. They got it wrong for 3 reasons:
1. Our previous 2-3 seasons were severely impacted by injury and the experts neglected this impact.
2. We have outstanding youngsters who stepped up naturally in development.
3. JL's coaching team, structure and game plan became more unified.
If we have a good injury run and points 2 and 3 continue their trajectory (which they should) then I think we have firm grounds for optimism.
I believe our trades have improved our list despite the loss of Lobb/Mundy/Logue.
I think there is an atmosphere of youthful enthusiasm, raw hunger and self-belief about the club. This is at a higher intensity than we've had for years.
LET'S F******G GOOOOOOOO!

 

[what a game]

Superb post Dockeroo. You were such an even handed level-head and then that last line - kapow!
I agree with you about (over)optimism.
Maybe I'm sticking my neck out but I think 2023 genuinely promises something to be optimistic about.
In 2022 pretty well every expert way underestimated us Dockers. They got it wrong for 3 reasons:
1. Our previous 2-3 seasons were severely impacted by injury and the experts neglected this impact.
2. We have outstanding youngsters who stepped up naturally in development.
3. JL's coaching team, structure and game plan became more unified.
If we have a good injury run and points 2 and 3 continue their trajectory (which they should) then I think we have firm grounds for optimism.
I believe our trades have improved our list despite the loss of Lobb/Mundy/Logue.
I think there is an atmosphere of youthful enthusiasm, raw hunger and self-belief about the club. This is at a higher intensity than we've had for years.
LET'S F******G GOOOOOOOO!

What a great balanced post
I do like the pressure for spots
I’m intending to go and watch peel as often as i can this year
Loved last year they were constantly on tv living in the bush

I’ll stick my neck out I can’t wIt to see the Cohuna play footy without having to be a ruck
He’s a 20 year old monster

 

[King Huskii]

I'll see you all down at training tomorrow morning

 

[Carnthedockers]

I agree although to do this you (and your club's supporters) have to have an open mind about what you are willing to trade to get that good youth in the background. That might mean for example:

(1) Trading Brennan Cox at his peak for a stash of good picks, because Hugh Davies shows good progress and you have staples in Pearce and Chapman
(2) Trading Sean Darcy when he hits being a top 3 ruckman, simply because Jackson / Knobel are good enough and are gameplan doesn't revolve around having dominant ruckmen.
(3) At some point trading Serong back to a Melbourne club, because we already have a strong midfield division.

The reality is that just by suggesting the above hypotheticals I will probably earn a heap of dislikes and maybe a season ban. But to continue on to things less controversial, I am getting the feeling already that players like Treacy, Henry and Sturt (if they had good seasons and other teams wanted them) would be on the trade table pretty quickly. Moreover, if someone wanted Frederick, Shultz or Switkowski for slightly overs, they would also be on the trade table pretty quick smart.

Another bit we would need to do is carefully assess our older champion players; in many senses I feel our biggest risks coming into this season are how we deal with Walters and Fyfe. There is a decent chance that they will be strong contributors which is great from a list perspective, but if their form falls away and there are others pressing for the same positions, then we will also need to be ruthlessly quick at the selection table if we want to remain in the hunt.

I agree. You only have to look at how well weller, Brad hill turned out. But trading players who don’t want to leave is a culture killer.

 

[Dockeroo]

I agree. You only have to look at how well weller, Brad hill turned out. But trading players who don’t want to leave is a culture killer.

Agreed - you want to keep the culture positive as much as possible. I reckon Colyer got an extra year this season purely because he’s (reportedly) excellent off the field in terms of his influence.
An underrated trade in recent years has been Aish. Gave up an F2 and F4 for Aish and an F3.
Great piece of business in hindsight. Same period hogan came in I think, and came out of nowhere on the last day of trade period.
He’s well on the way to 100 very solid games for the dockers.

 

[vidwhal]

IMO it was the draft that finished the rebuild. We picked up the last of our core group of A graders, including a key forward, so that we could then draft for needs/gaps and trade for talent like Jackson

Or nail pick 18 every year

 

[Son of a Wizard]

no wonder Duff left The Worst Australian.

 

[Docker82]

Or nail pick 18 every year

Doesn't need to be a late 1st. Plenty of good players have come from outside the first round.

Drafting well with the picks we have will help us remain a good team for longer.

Our older guys have replacements lined up imo. Next player that doesn't is Alex Pearce. Davies this year and likely another KPD in the next twelve months gives us a chance of replacing him whilst we're still playing good football.

 

[Docker82]

no wonder Duff left The Worst Australian.

Don't know how they still exist tbh.

Who the **** has $2 a day they'd willingly part with for information they get off our sources for free.

Probably 70% of their Freo content is straight from our website or the AFL's site. Both sources where there's no BS agenda (well not nearly to the same extent anyway).