Autopsy 2023 Rd 11 It's Groundhog Day ... again

[ctwenty1]

Maybe I'm clutching at straws.....

As devastated as I feel, I keep wondering if Voss's, seemingly stubborn refusal to change some things, is actually some kind of lesson to the players, and maybe the club as a whole in leadership. I always wondered why we got Voss, as it was clear there were better tactical coaches available, but what he had the others didn't was leadership quality in abundance.

We all know how Brisbane won 3 flags in a row, but not many recall the abysmal depths they plunged to prior to coming good. It wasn't until the individuals subsumed their egos to the greater good of the team that they started their rise to the top.

Right now, we all rightfully bemoan a heap of things we all think should be done differently. But perhaps Voss is simply following the defined plan he set out at the start of the year, and will not deviate from that plan until a certain point - perhaps the bye.

Lions took a few years to find their mojo, so did Port. Praying that's the plan at Carlton and that it will turn one day.

Probably a completely BS theory. Can't think of anything else to explain the current malaise.

I think there is an element of truth to this.

Voss has a way he wants this team to play as he considers that will deliver success. Those that can’t won’t be there much longer. Even those who we think are his “favourites” or “automatically selected” will be booted from the team at the end of the season.

 

[ETET]

Hard to watch. So hard, in fact that I twisted myself into a pretzel watching our Q2 efforts, culminating in a back spasm at half-time. Been standing up all day, just an ever-present reminder of how painful we are.

The worst part about it (other than the sensation of regressing, which others have touched on) is that I see effort, and I see workrate... but for both, too much of it is dumb. The game plan is an easy target, but we wouldn't be talking about it if our key forwards could convert at AFL standard.

My main beef is what we're being trained, the fundamentals. Why does no-one ever block for the ball carrier, and give him the extra second to hit a target (it would really help)? I understand our small forwards can't be everywhere, but why is Owies the only one who leads at the ball carrier? Seriously, is there one other player on our list who could/would? Select him! If Durdin and Motlop can't crumb the packs, can they not at least lay the odd block on McKay's opponent? Surely they ought to be able to do this a couple of times a game, who knows what could flow from there.

Obviously our confidence is way down. But the appetite is there - Voss has not "lost" the players in that regard, although I think they might be confused at times. We all deserve better, for the work that is being put in.

I still feel like it can turn... clearly we do a lot wrong, but we also do a lot right, and the reward for effort will come if we persist. I am not particularly discouraged by the injury-list either; these things have a way of bringing the best out of the rest.

Hard days, for sure. Go Blues.

The fundamentals, your are so right. We have a dozen or so coaches and we still cannot get the fundamentals right.

e.g. take Liam Jones, with us, he was erratic, heart in mouth stuff, playing over the top. Goes to the Dogs and plays within himself, does his job, little fuss, and dare I say it, against us, he even looked "composed." The comparison was startling.

I look at McGovern as an example, but there are many. He is playing selfish. He ignores the fundamentals. He does not have his teams interests at the front of his mind. Keep the ball infront, dont let it get in behind the defense. No, igniore this, try to take a screamer. Opps' I missed it, and it is out the back. Give me a pat on the bum as I get up and they score. Jacob said he admires Hodge as a captain. Hodge would have baked him.

Mitch is a classic example of what's currently wrong with our team. They don't seem to care for each other enough, don't put that team behaviour first. Selection intergrity is where you reward what you value. We keep selecting certain players and rewarding this behaviour.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I’ve watched some of every game played today. We move the ball with less fluency than ANY of them, yes even west coast. Amazingly poor. How can they justify this?

Hawthorn kicking into their forward line clearly / unquestionably better than ours.

Dumb dump kicks long not working. Never worked. Never will work. Would have worked by now if it was a good strategy.

A lot of supporters have been saying it for a long time. It can't be our plan A, B &C.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Been an issue prior to Voss.

When Cook said the list is not complete, he was bang on

Pace and footskills clearly lacking. But so is gameplan.

 

[Bostonian]

From a good source today the sentiment is that this team is a very fractured playing unit with self centred personalities present. We aren't playing like a team because behind the scenes we aren't one.

Sounds like behind closed doors we are an absolute mess of a club.

 

[BM123]

He's tackling and marking at or around his career average. It's the effectiveness of his disposals, and hitting the scoreboard that is missing.

For whatever reason Cripps is playing woefully. He's not alone in that regard but he used to be so clean and watching him fumble around yesterday was very depressing.

Stoppage wise our entire setup has proven itself to be quite ineffective so I'm less frustrated with that aspect of his game. Kennedy keeps getting thrown half back for some stupid reason, Docherty shouldn't be playing mid and we continually let opposition dictate match ups to our detriment. It's unreal that we let sides play off Cripps for this long. Any half decent side would've reviewed the Adelaide game alone after Dawson smashed Cripps and adjusted to it. Opposition sides somehow learned more about Carlton from that game than we did.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Maybe I'm clutching at straws.....

As devastated as I feel, I keep wondering if Voss's, seemingly stubborn refusal to change some things, is actually some kind of lesson to the players, and maybe the club as a whole in leadership. I always wondered why we got Voss, as it was clear there were better tactical coaches available, but what he had the others didn't was leadership quality in abundance.

We all know how Brisbane won 3 flags in a row, but not many recall the abysmal depths they plunged to prior to coming good. It wasn't until the individuals subsumed their egos to the greater good of the team that they started their rise to the top.

Right now, we all rightfully bemoan a heap of things we all think should be done differently. But perhaps Voss is simply following the defined plan he set out at the start of the year, and will not deviate from that plan until a certain point - perhaps the bye.

Lions took a few years to find their mojo, so did Port. Praying that's the plan at Carlton and that it will turn one day.

Probably a completely BS theory. Can't think of anything else to explain the current malaise.

Interesting idea although the bears were 8th in 95, 3rd in 96, 8th in 97, 18th in 98, 3rd in 99, 6th in 2000, 2nd in 2001 etc. So I'm not fully sure when the malaise was with regard to the actual playing group that won three in a row. Unless I'm misunderstanding you

 

[Blue Heart]

On current form, we can only beat West Coast and North Melbourne.

And I wouldn't put money on that happening either.

 

[ctwenty1]

Pace and footskills clearly lacking. But so is gameplan.

Yeah, Bit of chicken and egg here. Game plan would probably look better if players could execute, but then maybe they can’t execute because the game plan doesn’t give them the best opportunity to.

Still think skills are it- what we have now predates Voss. Players aren’t up to it mentally at the moment. Hopefully they get there this season

 

[Blueballs38]

That unrealistic expectation in itself is also a problem. I can't see how anyone could have though of it when looking at our list, the few standout types we have are great but that in itself doesn't lead to success.

you're criticizing and insulting the captain - who on this site would even consider disagreeing with ya? good work, the people need to know the truth.....

Thy do you believe Cripps is playing injured? Or he is just really down on form?

I personally think he is injured and if that is the case his output at present is really hurting the team.

If he is just down on form then I think he should play himself back in form in the seniors as his service does not need the humiliation of being dropped but if he is injured would you agree he should be rested until he recovers?

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Maybe I'm clutching at straws.....

As devastated as I feel, I keep wondering if Voss's, seemingly stubborn refusal to change some things, is actually some kind of lesson to the players, and maybe the club as a whole in leadership. I always wondered why we got Voss, as it was clear there were better tactical coaches available, but what he had the others didn't was leadership quality in abundance.

We all know how Brisbane won 3 flags in a row, but not many recall the abysmal depths they plunged to prior to coming good. It wasn't until the individuals subsumed their egos to the greater good of the team that they started their rise to the top.

Right now, we all rightfully bemoan a heap of things we all think should be done differently. But perhaps Voss is simply following the defined plan he set out at the start of the year, and will not deviate from that plan until a certain point - perhaps the bye.

Lions took a few years to find their mojo, so did Port. Praying that's the plan at Carlton and that it will turn one day.

Probably a completely BS theory. Can't think of anything else to explain the current malaise.

My prediction - Voss keeps his job at the end of the season but all assistant coaches get the chop.

Assuming things stay on the current course.

I hope we bring in Mark Williams. Played a huge role at Richmond and Melbourne in an assisting capacity... not to mention premiership coach. Great skills coach by all reports.

 

[Doro]

My prediction - Voss keeps his job at the end of the season but all assistant coaches get the chop.

Assuming things stay on the current course.

I hope we bring in Mark Williams. Played a huge role at Richmond and Melbourne in an assisting capacity... not to mention premiership coach. Great skills coach by all reports.

Choco can't stand Carlton.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Still think skills are it- what we have now predates Voss. Players aren’t up to it mentally at the moment. Hopefully they get there this season

100% disagree on this bit. Voss owns what we're currently seeing. They are setting up forward 50 entries exactly how he wants them to. Big guys stay deep and bomb it on their heads.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Choco can't stand Carlton.

Cash money?

 

[Doro]

Cash money?

I'm sure he can get that at many clubs.

 

[Blueballs38]

Maybe our loss wasn't so bad given all the upsets. It's bizarro round.

What’s truly sad is a number of teams who have played poorly at the start of the season have turned it around with a few tweaks. Voss continues to stick to an outdated game plan that has been worked out and every team plays us the same and gets the chocolates whilst he praises the team after every loss in the press conference.

with bizarro round throwing up a number of upsets we are a realistic chance of finishing bottom four! Who would have thought! Truly amazing and sickening at the same time.

Im not an advocate of sacking Voss but should that happen how could he possibly survive? How could any of the coaches?

 

[Blueballs38]

Won’t happen for Cripps until you throw a big unexpected change in the middle!
Charlie!
But won’t see it!
Coaches aren’t brave enough!

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

For some reason I actually like this idea, reckon Charlie would tear it up

 

[Sonny Jim]

From a good source today the sentiment is that this team is a very fractured playing unit with self centred personalities present. We aren't playing like a team because behind the scenes we aren't one.

Sounds like behind closed doors we are an absolute mess of a club.

Don't know if true but looks like it and would explain a lot.

 

[DollarsandSense]

Watching Harry each week get progressively worse is terrible for the team and Harry himself.

Has anyone here seen a player regress mentally so much and miraculously turn it around?

How does Harry recover from this?

Who knows. But we’ve got 7 more years of watching it. FMD.

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

For some reason I actually like this idea, reckon Charlie would tear it up

Played midfield as a junior

 

[jj1978]

From a good source today the sentiment is that this team is a very fractured playing unit with self centred personalities present. We aren't playing like a team because behind the scenes we aren't one.

Sounds like behind closed doors we are an absolute mess of a club.

So what has happened from a year ago where everyone is re-signing... we're all happy little vegemites?

 

[sosos]

Interesting idea although the bears were 8th in 95, 3rd in 96, 8th in 97, 18th in 98, 3rd in 99, 6th in 2000, 2nd in 2001 etc. So I'm not fully sure when the malaise was with regard to the actual playing group that won three in a row. Unless I'm misunderstanding you

Yeah, I should have fact checked my sweeping statement. Maybe I was just thinking of 98.

I do remember that us flogging them at Princes Park was like the catalyst for their eventual dominance.

I keep wondering which embarassing loss will be ours lol.

 

[Del9Sep24]

Maybe we will have a total reverse of last season, come home with a wet sail and make the finals after beating the Giants in round 24 !!!

Stranger Things have Happened !

Absolutely possible with a caretaker coach.

But the club is too gutless and ego driven to put their hand up, admit a mistake and take the couple of weeks of heat that will follow.

They would rather watch the season pitter away to nothing and do the inevitable during the quiet of the off season. As long as they save face and keep the PR in tact, that’s the number one objective of the people at this club.

We might be heading towards a forced fire sale at the end of year as players will opt out of this basket case. And with the incompetence of the list management at the moment (stocker) we will not be receiving fair value and overs like a few years ago.

 

[Accidental genius]

Not sure if anyone caught weiters interview from earlier today…(they showed a snippet on fox). His response about swans game…

we were ok in first half but poor general kicking and poor goal kicking cost us game. Kicking 6.15 isn’t going to cut it. Forwards weren’t able to get the job done and we have to own it as a group.

Seemed like he was throwing forwards under bus but he said we need to own it as a playing group so maybe trying to take heat off Vossy.

 

[jj1978]

Not sure if anyone caught weiters interview from earlier today…(they showed a snippet on fox). His response about swans game…

we were ok in first half but poor general kicking and poor goal kicking cost us game. Kicking 6.15 isn’t going to cut it. Forwards weren’t able to get the job done and we have to own it as a group.

Sure forwards are a part of it... but can't blame Charlie and Harry having to continually contort and kill themselves every time to get a mark. Charlie is a freak and is grabbing the pill in ways that aren't humanly possible. The mids are delivering forward worse than that of a blind man driving a car on the freeway.

Bar a game here and there we surely have the worst spread of goal kicking in the comp. Can't rely on mids to kick goals or our smalls. Charlie/Harry or bust.