Autopsy 2023 Rd 11 It's Groundhog Day ... again

[myblueroan]

Yes absolutely.

Because Voss is clueless. We and the players now know this. We only see the evidence on game day imagine the evidence they have that this guy has no idea. Imagine trying to get motivated as a player when you can see all the incompetence we see and more, a lot more.

As for the disbelief about skills and goalkicking. It is a result of confidence and belief in what you’re doing. It’s all mental and it stems from incompetent coaching.

The recent attempt by the club to shift the heat to the players is a joke.

I agree absolutely it stems from a poor system, game day plan, poor placement of our players etc. But because I think the line coaches are contributing to this, the thought of any of them becoming caretakers is for mine an absolute no go.
Help Voss as much as you can for 2023. If we can replace any line coaches this year we should.
The reason to employ a coach like Hardwick is for the quality of line coaches he would attract as well as all his experience. We'd be lucky to get him and it won't be this year...will it?

 

[lily of laguna]

The fundamentals, your are so right. We have a dozen or so coaches and we still cannot get the fundamentals right.

e.g. take Liam Jones, with us, he was erratic, heart in mouth stuff, playing over the top. Goes to the Dogs and plays within himself, does his job, little fuss, and dare I say it, against us, he even looked "composed." The comparison was startling.

I look at McGovern as an example, but there are many. He is playing selfish. He ignores the fundamentals. He does not have his teams interests at the front of his mind. Keep the ball infront, dont let it get in behind the defense. No, igniore this, try to take a screamer. Opps' I missed it, and it is out the back. Give me a pat on the bum as I get up and they score. Jacob said he admires Hodge as a captain. Hodge would have baked him.

Mitch is a classic example of what's currently wrong with our team. They don't seem to care for each other enough, don't put that team behaviour first. Selection intergrity is where you reward what you value. We keep selecting certain players and rewarding this behaviour.

I agree that Mitch is playing selfishly both in a body preservation way and a defensive structure way, but we also have to weigh up the coaches instructions.
I have no doubt he is being told to take the game on be a intercept hbf, create run and use his kicking skis to open up play.
In order to play this role he isn't locking in on an opponent and is going for the marks to accelerate transition from the back half.
Like all his team mates he is down on form and even lower on confidence.
This team is broken mentally and I don't see an easy fix because we won't be winning many games from here on in.

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[katmanblue]

Some of the crap the boys are copping is out of line. It's all good to be passionate but abuse doesn't help.

Im sure we're all hurt/angry/frustrated to some degree. But they are feeling even worse. No need to pile on.

This is what they've been working their whole lives for. And to see each opportunity turn to ashes must be incredibly difficult for them.



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[katmanblue]

Under pressure, you sink to the level of your training.

I think that has some truth to it. I wonder if we are training skills under pressure or when extremely fatigued.

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[Fridge42]

Under pressure, you sink to the level of your training.

I think that has some truth to it. I wonder if we are training skills under pressure or when extremely fatigued.

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We have won one game when tailing at 3/4 time since Voss came in and that was his first game.

I don’t see us looking as muscular or fit as other teams and I wonder if the fitness is because we play such a boring slow game plan.

Training during the season wouldn’t be about gaining fitness, so if you aren’t gut running like the Pies do every week I think you fall behind as the season goes on.

 

[aristeas]

Some thoughts from 40 plus years of Carlton barracking:

The crisis we're in right now isn't caused by other teams being better than us, it's by us sabotaging success. We have the players to be consistently middle ranked, maybe top 8.

1 I never believed the "This is our year" bullshit. This line gets pumped out again and again on no evidence whatsoever. Last time it was "They know we're coming" which turned into "They know we're kidding". There is no commitment to HONESTLY looking at our position. No reality-based assessment of our goals and ways and means to reach them. This a Club administration problem and has to be addressed. Stop fantasising about the future and deal with today's f**ing issues.

Realistically we could be a 'better than average' side if we played on what we really have to give.

2 The "Voss gloss" was always just hype. He's currently no better on game day (when it really counts) than Ratten, or Voss mk1 at Brisbane. His learning curve has to trend up, which means someone coaching the coach, and shielding him from bullshit media.

3 Our players are good enough, mostly. But they all eventually learn the "Carlton way", to play scared of making mistakes and end up losing. And to rely on one player fixing everything. Last time it was Cripps, now its Charlie. This has to change. And not from endless hype about what they could do, but by sharpening skills and playing within their capabilities. So quit calling for a rebuild - this IS a rebuild, right here, right now.

4 Goal kicking is everything. The only thing. Everything else goes towards that. A 1in 3 goal kicking effort is crap. If we'd kicked straight in the last month we'd have won most games. Fix the forward line, and how it gets fed from the middle and we'll be a week to week proposition instead of the Easybeats.

The difference between a top 8 spot and a bottom 6 spot isn't much. It's about consistency, predictable good performance. I don't care about finals. I care about maximising our ability and delivering on game day.

Stop the hype. Stop the panic. Play the game to win each quarter.

 

[JustaBattler]

Some thoughts from 40 plus years of Carlton barracking:

The crisis we're in right now isn't caused by other teams being better than us, it's by us sabotaging success. We have the players to be consistently middle ranked, maybe top 8.

1 I never believed the "This is our year" bullshit. This line gets pumped out again and again on no evidence whatsoever. Last time it was "They know we're coming" which turned into "They know we're kidding". There is no commitment to HONESTLY looking at our position. No reality-based assessment of our goals and ways and means to reach them. This a Club administration problem and has to be addressed. Stop fantasising about the future and deal with today's f**ing issues.

Realistically we could be a 'better than average' side if we played on what we really have to give.

2 The "Voss gloss" was always just hype. He's currently no better on game day (when it really counts) than Ratten, or Voss mk1 at Brisbane. His learning curve has to trend up, which means someone coaching the coach, and shielding him from bullshit media.

3 Our players are good enough, mostly. But they all eventually learn the "Carlton way", to play scared of making mistakes and end up losing. And to rely on one player fixing everything. Last time it was Cripps, now its Charlie. This has to change. And not from endless hype about what they could do, but by sharpening skills and playing within their capabilities. So quit calling for a rebuild - this IS a rebuild, right here, right now.

4 Goal kicking is everything. The only thing. Everything else goes towards that. A 1in 3 goal kicking effort is a cancer. If we'd kicked straight in the last month we'd have won most games. Fix the forward line, and how it gets fed from the middle and we'll be a week to week proposition instead of the Easybeats.

The difference between a top 8 spot and a bottom 6 spot isn't much. It's about consistency, predictable good performance. I don't care about finals. I care about maximising our ability and delivering on game day.

Stop the hype. Stop the panic. Play the game to win each quarter.

Great post - especially point 4.

 

[Juddrockz]

And yet Harry in that last quarter hits a perfect 40m chest pass. If the tv I was watching wasn’t someone else’s, it would have been destroyed at that moment.

Thats because the pressure was off H,game was over. Its all between the ears.

 

[Juddrockz]

I was at the game and Cottrell’s work rate was incredible.

Gawd he covered some territory.

H’e be harassing an oppo player on our half FWD flank trying to stop their rebound, follow up with another tackle 30m down the field and then bob up to take a defensive mark 100m away in the back pocked 20 seconds later.

He was doing work like that all night.

Had to be there to appreciate his effort and contribution.

I've always loved the way Cotts plays. Always cracks in,has pace,good kick and a bit of mongrel in him. Not to mention,he always looks like he's enjoying playing football. He's a keeper for mine.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Cripps clearly puts himself before the team each week attending every centre bounce.

McGovern is playing for his next contract.

Doc from an ex Carlton big wig checks his stats as soon as he comes from the ground. When has he ever done a lockdown job?

Motlop doesn’t chase or tackle half as hard as Durdin and has done nothing to deserve to be a walk up start every week.

Charlie and Harry have the footy IQ of Auskickers. As amazing as Charlie looked for a half he didn’t do any damage at all and then Blakey took 6 marks in the last.

The only one I want to be selfish is Saad and he seems to have lost all his Mojo and doesn’t even bother running past for a handball.

Yep, our leaders and their destructive impact on and off the field are the silent coach killers and the deafening hurdles for building culture

I am not a Voss fan (from what I have seen so far) BUT I'm coming more and more around to saying, "enough is enough is enough is enough" to the tail wagging the dog.

I know we will go through more pain and more talkback anger and more pages filled on BF and TC BUT one thing I'm confident about...that rightly or wrongly, Michael Voss wants Carlton's 17th premiership MORE THAN so many players on that list

For that reason, I want the club to hold firm on Voss and for the Senators* to realise they have no clout and that they need to pull their heads in and bust their backsides unconditonally each and every week if they want success at the CFC, otherwise they can FRO

* The Italian National Team for too long was controlled by senior players who would get their way. The Italian media called them, 'Senators' because the final vote was up to them

 

[Gez1969]

Some of the crap the boys are copping is out of line. It's all good to be passionate but abuse doesn't help.

Im sure we're all hurt/angry/frustrated to some degree. But they are feeling even worse. No need to pile on.

This is what they've been working their whole lives for. And to see each opportunity turn to ashes must be incredibly difficult for them.



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I’ve played as a kid, watched hundreds of games in the old Olympic tyres scoreboard pocket of Princes Park, in rain, hail and shine. My Carlton never gave up. I’m 54 and I never thought I’d see our club in such a laughable state.
Players in their 20s may “feel” it but supporters like me a couple of generations in are now numb to the cultural failure we have become and seem to accept. It should hurt if you are driven and professional.
My own 12 year old son, just walked off a soccer field in tears after surrendering a 3 goal lead. “Dont want to talk about, dad, give me some space”.
Carlton players routinely laugh and chat with other teams after games.
I do feel sorry for some of our players as I feel they are coached by incompetents.
Generally, we are managed by substandard leaders.
How we manage contracts and trades must be called into question.
How we have managed fitness and recovery is horrible. *(Injuries better this year)
How we are routinely out-coached is diabolically poor.
How we select teams and blatantly favour some players over others is a weekly head scratcher.
We, the Carlton faithful deserve better.
The most damning indictment at the moment is, I feel we have lost our identity as a powerful, ruthless, successful club.

 

[ctwenty1]

From a good source today the sentiment is that this team is a very fractured playing unit with self centred personalities present. We aren't playing like a team because behind the scenes we aren't one.

Sounds like behind closed doors we are an absolute mess of a club.

Well given the results we have had I’m not surprised that pressure would be building on the playing group, which leads to disjointed team environment.

Will be a test for them to turn it around.

To suggest we are a mess though is a bit of a stretch

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Under pressure, you sink to the level of your training.

I think that has some truth to it. I wonder if we are training skills under pressure or when extremely fatigued.

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Who knows but +1 on the query

 

[Gointocarlton]

From a good source today the sentiment is that this team is a very fractured playing unit with self centred personalities present. We aren't playing like a team because behind the scenes we aren't one.

Sounds like behind closed doors we are an absolute mess of a club.

Thats great news that is. Backs up my feelings that our plight at the moment is mostly a player problem.

 

[windows1]

I would love to have a tough and confident President right now. To breathe some strength and resolve into the place. Not cower to the media. Take a swing at a few. Go in David Kings show and take a swing at him. “Don’t lecture the Carron fans mate. I guarantee you they don’t give a shit what you think. They all know what you think of Carlton through your North Melb glasses. Thinly veiled swipes. Talk about our side all you want but STFu about lecturing our fans mate. Who the **** do you think you are? Act like a coaching Expert yet you spent what one minute as an assistant before you realised you can’t do it? The view is good from the cheap seats and take your swings as you will. But do not ****ing lecture the fans.”

And hang up.

 

[windows1]

No hope for the team when the captain is dropping his head and not setting the standard.

He’s due for a walk off isn’t he? Must be time? Maybe this week against Melbourne? Crippa? What do ya reckon? Half way through the last just clear off down the race and take your tape off?

Should never ever ever have been reappointed Captain after that moment.

 

[TJohn]

He’s due for a walk off isn’t he? Must be time? Maybe this week against Melbourne? Crippa? What do ya reckon? Half way through the last just clear off down the race and take your tape off?

Should never ever ever have been reappointed Captain after that moment.

Wow, I don’t remember that.

 

[windows1]

Assuming this is true, it only confirms my belief that there is some form of toxicity there

Everyone looks at the 120 minutes on the field for a reason, but you don't need much intelligence to work out that the problems extend to the locker room

What they are exactly I don't know, but I'm very confident that selection integrity is one (of a few)
And as a corollary, I'm confident that senior players have too much say, and will demonstrate their displeasures on the field

My view (and it's obviously simplistic-but hard arsed) is that i you dont want to give your all for the momogram, and then some, in a team environment, you can spend the rest of your days rotting in the 2s, whether you're the 44th player on the list or the 1st

Players have spent their entire afl career being losers. And they’ve become losers. Only way to come to terms with the ineptitude is for them to bond and blame the coaches.

Then they say “we should take it on as a group” like Weiters did. Cool. How about you out your hand up and say “I’ve played like dog shit all season and I’m a part of the reason why we are here. Totally not interested in even blaming us as a group. Let alone thinking about the coaching or game plan. Because my general form and on field demeanour hasn’t been good enough. I’m ****ing fixing it though. I couldn’t be working harder than I am now. Mentally. Physically. Preparation and recovery. I will be at my absolute best or I will die trying. Don’t ask me any questions about anything other than my form because until I’m crushing it and have nothing left to fix then I am not interested in talking about anything else. Let me walk you through some basic shit I’m stamping out. I will no longer randomly zone off players when there is no spare back. I’m not quick enough to recover my position so I just won’t do it. I will def be looking to move the ball on way quicker than I have. I’ll be stopping my man getting easy lead up kicks like keeps happening. The only time you’ll see me drop my head is if you’re in the toilet with me. Because my attitude and demeanour is going to be nothing short of proud and determined from siren to siren.

Any other questions about me? Else I’m done.”

 

[windows1]

Wow, I don’t remember that.

It got glossed over.

The media should go back to it. And ask him.

“So mate the day you walked off and didn’t return yet when asked the coach said you were not injured…..wtf happened?”

He’s never been asked. The media ask all sorts of bullshit but never that.

 

[Gointocarlton]

It got glossed over.

The media should go back to it. And ask him.

“So mate the day you walked off and didn’t return yet when asked the coach said you were not injured…..wtf happened?”

He’s never been asked. The media ask all sorts of bullshit but never that.

When was that exactly? Was it when Teague or Bolton was coaching?

 

[Blue1980]

I think there is an element of truth to this.

Voss has a way he wants this team to play as he considers that will deliver success. Those that can’t won’t be there much longer. Even those who we think are his “favourites” or “automatically selected” will be booted from the team at the end of the season.

A lot of those supposed favourites are just guys who we have a lack of on the list and get games as there is no one else.

 

[Blue1980]

What’s truly sad is a number of teams who have played poorly at the start of the season have turned it around with a few tweaks. Voss continues to stick to an outdated game plan that has been worked out and every team plays us the same and gets the chocolates whilst he praises the team after every loss in the press conference.

with bizarro round throwing up a number of upsets we are a realistic chance of finishing bottom four! Who would have thought! Truly amazing and sickening at the same time.

Im not an advocate of sacking Voss but should that happen how could he possibly survive? How could any of the coaches?

I think we are getting to the realisation of how bad things are at different times.I thought bottom 4 was on after the brisbane game

 

[sosos]

I would love to have a tough and confident President right now. To breathe some strength and resolve into the place. Not cower to the media. Take a swing at a few. Go in David Kings show and take a swing at him. “Don’t lecture the Carron fans mate. I guarantee you they don’t give a s*t what you think. They all know what you think of Carlton through your North Melb glasses. Thinly veiled swipes. Talk about our side all you want but STFu about lecturing our fans mate. Who the * do you think you are? Act like a coaching Expert yet you spent what one minute as an assistant before you realised you can’t do it? The view is good from the cheap seats and take your swings as you will. But do not ****** lecture the fans.”

And hang up.

Vote 1 Windows1 for President.

 

[windows1]

When was that exactly? Was it when Teague or Bolton was coaching?

Does it matter? Cripps learnt how to blame everyone else from the guys before him. Murphy. Gibbs.

Do you think Cripps backs coaches in? Was all in on The Teague Train. Was the first one off. Jungle drums have a similar feel now.

The culture of this club has become ‘blame everyone else’. That’s what we induct newcomers with. They learn it. Adopt it. Repeat it.

Why don’t you ever hear Cripps say “look I’m totally out of form. I need a big lift.” Always this ‘we’ shit. ‘We’ doesn’t kick the ****ing football.

Learn YOUR role. DO your role. Accept whether you’re doing your role. Stay in your ****ing Lane.

“My role as Captain is to make sure each player around me has properly absorbed THEIR role. That they ACCEPT that role. That they give feedback to the line coach if they don’t think they can fulfill that role. They show personal responsibility. That if I hear they’re getting wasted on a Saturday night way too often that I step in and tell them to knock it the **** off. But above all else, my role as Captain is to lead by example. And that example is playing MY role. Doing the job the coach asks of me on field. I haven’t been doing THAT but I am all out going to fix that.”

Stop hiding behind WE. If it’s meant to be then it’s up to ME.

 

[windows1]

Vote 1 Windows1 for President.

I thought Pommie was absolutely sensational btw on Terry’s show and then his own.

Spine tingling stuff.