News 2023 St Kilda Media Thread

[Stan_Darsh72]

Genuinely not sure if we should try and stay in the 8, or just say * it and tank for a better draft pick

Try and Stay in the 8

All about culture and a finals for our young players would be good.

 

[beside the seaside]

There's been a lot of talk in the media about Ross's comments that the list falls away after the top bunch of players. Can't remember exactly what he said but along the lines of "the talents not there".

I think there's a bit more to it than just a pot at the list management. We know Ross was brought in to lift standards. The standards by all accounts and according to the review they did have been woeful. We saw it at training, players going half arsed and mucking around half the time. Coaches moseying around having a chat. Our development has been criticised for years but a huge part of this must come down to standards. What are the players doing to get the most out of themselves and their career?

I think Ross' comment is a challenge to the players, saying "you need to get better if you want to stick around". We can't have 15-odd average players every week, we need everyone to be trying to get better and becoming the best players they can be. What are these guys willing to do to really get better? Will you closely study tape and your own game? Will you sacrifice elements of your fun lifestyle? Will you do extra pool sessions, extra skills sessions? Would you give up grog during the season? Are we as a club doing everything we can to be the best?

I love the comments because it is a throw-down to our players to lift their game and improve or f off. He is absolutely right that we leave it to too few too often and we have for years. It's not as simple as just picking the right guys or trading them in, we need to have an environment which gets the best out of players and the players need to buy into it or piss off.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Am I insane in thinking he’s passing the buck here? And has missed Ross Lyons message entirely?

It’s not the second or third tier players that need to lift lol. It’s the 1st tier core of senior players, of which Captain Steele is one of.

Hey, Jack

 

[TheNewEnsign]

Try and Stay in the 8

All about culture and a finals for our young players would be good.

This. Tanking now would be terrible for club culture, plus there's every chance that on 9 wins we finish above Freo and so only get Pick 5 anyway. It would be quite a St Kilda thing to do....

We're an abject team at present but there is still a lot to play out this season, we're a better chance at finals than a lot of our own fans and virtually all oppo supporters are giving us.

 

[BiggerThompa]

Try and Stay in the 8

All about culture and a finals for our young players would be good.

Mmm I've heard that argument and understand the logic but I constantly flip flop on agreeing with it personally.

Cultivating a winning culture and getting finals experience for our young boys would be great, but scraping into finals just to get demolished by a better team (like the Essendon teams of the past few years, for example) won't do us any good.

Plus there's the possibility of trying to stay in the 8, only to finish 9th which is the worst of both worlds.

 

[jwikked]

Tanking is loser talk.

I’d rather get beaten by 150 Points in a final than throw games to avoid playing finals.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Mmm I've heard that argument and understand the logic but I constantly flip flop on agreeing with it personally.

Cultivating a winning culture and getting finals experience for our young boys would be great, but scraping into finals just to get demolished by a better team (like the Essendon teams of the past few years, for example) won't do us any good.

Plus there's the possibility of trying to stay in the 8, only to finish 9th which is the worst of both worlds.

Richmond
Formerly known as 9thmond
Lost 3 Elims in a row 2013-2015
Didn’t do them any good?
All downhill for dusty and co from there?

 

[BiggerThompa]

Haha all fair points boys.

Tanking is ultimately dumb and loser talk, but being a sainter it can be easy to catastrophise and think the worst sometimes. I'm sure you can all understand!

 

[bergholt]

https://www.saints.com.au/video/1383872/steele-breaks-down-saints-past-month-getting-back-on-the-horse?videoId=1383872&modal=true&type=video

Not his best moment- clueless on what went wrong- never mentioned midfield domination at source by Suns , he just quoted “poor ball movement” .

Yeah it's pretty bad, they ask him a bunch of questions where he says either "I don't know" or "it's up to the coaches". Sounds like he's either checked out or out of his depth.

 

[botts]

Haha all fair points boys.

Tanking is ultimately dumb and loser talk, but being a sainter it can be easy to catastrophise and think the worst sometimes. I'm sure you can all understand!

The draft is gonna be so diluted this year anyway. Suns got three top 12 picks north will get priority pick. Even if we didn’t tank it wouldn’t net is what we need

 

[bergholt]

The draft is gonna be so diluted this year anyway. Suns got three top 12 picks north will get priority pick. Even if we didn’t tank it wouldn’t net is what we need

Yeah only way to tank really is to trade out experienced guys, same as Hawthorn have done. I really hope we're ruthless on that front at the end of the season.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Mmm I've heard that argument and understand the logic but I constantly flip flop on agreeing with it personally.

Cultivating a winning culture and getting finals experience for our young boys would be great, but scraping into finals just to get demolished by a better team (like the Essendon teams of the past few years, for example) won't do us any good.

Plus there's the possibility of trying to stay in the 8, only to finish 9th which is the worst of both worlds.

Culture is always 1000% more important than a couple of places in the draft.

 

[StCicatriz]

Am I insane in thinking he’s passing the buck here? And has missed Ross Lyons message entirely?

It’s not the second or third tier players that need to lift lol. It’s the 1st tier core of senior players, of which Captain Steele is one of.

You are absolutely spot on. The top flight sides have a core of senior guys that are just unbreakable. They individually have an off game here or there but they're consistently very good.

Our core of senior guys just can't get it done regularly.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I don’t think we move the ball quick enough so by the time it actually gets forward our only option is a long bomb to outnumbered contests. We’re looking for the perfect play too much.

It's not that we don't move it quickly. We do but the problem is we go in straight lines and it's usually just a quick dump kick to a contest.

We actually need to move it slower at times and then pull the trigger when the time is right and move it really quickly.

Right now we are flooding back then when we get the ball going too fast too soon and kicking to an outnumber for the opposition in our own defensive half.

We would be better off running at the opposition defense rather than trying to kick through it, then trying to generate some overlap, etc.

 

[Sully111]

I've never thought Steele was a great choice as captain. Your best player (which he was) isn't always the right choice.

TBH I struggle to see anyone who I think is a great fit for the job. I guess Wilkie seems the closest.

 

[Remboy]

There's been a lot of talk in the media about Ross's comments that the list falls away after the top bunch of players. Can't remember exactly what he said but along the lines of "the talents not there".

I think there's a bit more to it than just a pot at the list management. We know Ross was brought in to lift standards. The standards by all accounts and according to the review they did have been woeful. We saw it at training, players going half arsed and mucking around half the time. Coaches moseying around having a chat. Our development has been criticised for years but a huge part of this must come down to standards. What are the players doing to get the most out of themselves and their career?

I think Ross' comment is a challenge to the players, saying "you need to get better if you want to stick around". We can't have 15-odd average players every week, we need everyone to be trying to get better and becoming the best players they can be. What are these guys willing to do to really get better? Will you closely study tape and your own game? Will you sacrifice elements of your fun lifestyle? Will you do extra pool sessions, extra skills sessions? Would you give up grog during the season? Are we as a club doing everything we can to be the best?

I love the comments because it is a throw-down to our players to lift their game and improve or f off. He is absolutely right that we leave it to too few too often and we have for years. It's not as simple as just picking the right guys or trading them in, we need to have an environment which gets the best out of players and the players need to buy into it or piss off.

I think what he was saying is we've got a group of B-C grade players who are capable of very good B grade football but when they are put under the pump they revert to average C grade players.
I think they are going to be under the pump for the rest of the season. If Ross doesn't feel they can measure up we might see a few more kids get a game, like Peris this week.

 

[Remboy]

We would be better off running at the opposition defense rather than trying to kick through it, then trying to generate some overlap, etc.

I thought we were doing that at the start of the year, taking the game on, being aggressive. At training during the preseason playing were forced to dispose of the ball quickly and keep it moving at all times.

 

[hayes]

It's not that we don't move it quickly. We do but the problem is we go in straight lines and it's usually just a quick dump kick to a contest.

We actually need to move it slower at times and then pull the trigger when the time is right and move it really quickly.

Right now we are flooding back then when we get the ball going too fast too soon and kicking to an outnumber for the opposition in our own defensive half.

We would be better off running at the opposition defense rather than trying to kick through it, then trying to generate some overlap, etc.

I don’t think we could move it any slower. Everything’s backwards, sideways and to the boundary. We avoid the corridor which means the opposition knows where it’s going and when you become predictable it makes it impossible to score. We’re getting smashed at clearance and we can’t move the ball from the backline, not a great combination.

 

[Jayman15]

Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

on RSN Breakfast with Harf 19/7

 

[g_TRAIN]

I don’t think we could move it any slower. Everything’s backwards, sideways and to the boundary. We avoid the corridor which means the opposition knows where it’s going and when you become predictable it makes it impossible to score. We’re getting smashed at clearance and we can’t move the ball from the backline, not a great combination.

If you look at the stats we are ranked number 1. in the league for forward kick % so that contradicts your statement that we go backwards and sideways. If anything we should shift the ball off the straight more often to open up space.

Totally agreed about using the corridor more, it doesn't have to be a lot more but enough that the opposition has to think about where they defend space

Clearance and contest work I again agree that's a no-brainer. We are pathetic in that area right now and it's probably impacting every other aspect of our game.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I've never thought Steele was a great choice as captain. Your best player (which he was) isn't always the right choice.

TBH I struggle to see anyone who I think is a great fit for the job. I guess Wilkie seems the closest.

I thought he'd be the next captain in his second year with us but it seems the job has sent him into his shell somewhat. That article about how he would be a lead by example introvert and that was "ok" coz that's just being himself phukn bullsh1t made me wanna puke.
I'd say co captain with Wilks or even a swap of titles until Windhager is ready in 2-4 years.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Am I insane in thinking he’s passing the buck here? And has missed Ross Lyons message entirely?

It’s not the second or third tier players that need to lift lol. It’s the 1st tier core of senior players, of which Captain Steele is one of.

He’s doing ok on the afl fantasy scores so maybe that’s ok

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I've never thought Steele was a great choice as captain. Your best player (which he was) isn't always the right choice.

TBH I struggle to see anyone who I think is a great fit for the job. I guess Wilkie seems the closest.

His only form of leadership is to play a blinder of a game. When he gets 40 touches and 10 tackles “wow what an amazing leader leads by example”

If he can’t get bulk touches and tackles he’s not actually doing much leadership since he’s not very vocal. Needs more strings to his bow in that regard. The great leaders inspire and can influence the game with tactical changes on field

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I thought he'd be the next captain in his second year with us but it seems the job has sent him into his shell somewhat. That article about how he would be a lead by example introvert and that was "ok" coz that's just being himself phukn bullsh1t made me wanna puke.
I'd say co captain with Wilks or even a swap of titles until Windhager is ready in 2-4 years.

All well and good when you’re getting 3 vote games every week but if you can’t what are you doing to be a leader?

 

[g_TRAIN]

His only form of leadership is to play a blinder of a game. When he gets 40 touches and 10 tackles “wow what an amazing leader leads by example”

If he can’t get bulk touches and tackles he’s not actually doing much leadership since he’s not very vocal. Needs more strings to his bow in that regard. The great leaders inspire and can influence the game with tactical changes on field

Look not saying you are wrong but how would you know this? Surely you are not basing this on what you see in the media alone?

He doesn't need to be 'overly vocal' to be a good leader but he does need to speak up at the right times.

The stuff he does inside the club's 4 walls with players individually and the profesionalisim and standards he drives are going to be what makes him a good captain along with his on-field performance.

His on-field stuff has been poor recently but that's not usually been the case with Jack as a captain. The other stuff we don't know

Not really defending him here but I fail to see how people are well-positioned to judge him