domin8
Club Legend
Ah another circus thread shit canning the club inhabited by the same clowns.
2023 top 10 draft pick gone?
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domin8
Club Legend
Because Kane told them
domin8
Club Legend
Except we need outside mids
Ok I’ll elaborate, has contested game, the opposite to his brother
domin8
Club Legend
Couldn’t agree more
Haven't seen him, but FWIW he's listed as
Height: 187cm
Weight: 79kg
He's just turned 18 today, so there's every chance he gets a bit taller still and 79kg is not a bad starting point. If you extrapolate he could fill out to a 189/190cm 85-88kg type player potentially.
BY comparison, Patrick Naish was listed as 183/77 on Wikipedia, so he looks a lot bigger than his brother and that's without any further growth or development.
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- #32
Harry hindsight but we wouldnt do that trade for hopper on a 7 year deal now. Tarranto was enough.
Westcoast are doing the right thing tanking this year. They are gonna get a kings ransom for the no1 pick when they trade it. Best thing about it they dont need harleys permission to effectively trade him anywhere so they will maximise the best deal from any club.
Westcoast are doing the right thing tanking this year. They are gonna get a kings ransom for the no1 pick when they trade it. Best thing about it they dont need harleys permission to effectively trade him anywhere so they will maximise the best deal from any club.
No new coach with probably a pretty large re-build on his hands would be happy with not having a first round pick (especially if it does prove to be well within the top ten).
Neither I suspect Taranto and Hopper would be leaping for joy as part of the sales pitch of getting them to Richmond was to play under a three time premiership coach.
The only party who would be experiencing unrestrained happiness over all this is GWS. It appears a perfect storm at Punt Road will deliver them a first rounder far more valuable than they had probably hoped and that proponents of the Hopper trade reassured us would not happen.
If only we had got Hopper with the picks that we used for Dow and RCD instead....
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- Thread starter
- #34
Yep thats true. Not having a first is now even bigger problem now that new coach wont have a first to play with. Going to be a very very hard sell.
wegetpumped
Norm Smith Medallist
Depends on what the new coach sees in the list. He might decide we have to sell something good to get picks back in for the future. As I see it we will lose some more legends end of the season and what is left of the rest well they are just old and youth so far hasn't shown up much. If he thinks the list is good enough well he might persevere.
domin8
Club Legend
Not really. You don’t take on a list based on speculative draft picks. You’d look at our list and go yep in transition but the bones of still being a very good side and will be for years to come. A decent coach isn’t going to baulk because of not holding a draft pick
smasha
It's Time!
Taranto leading the coaches votes.
- Oct 3, 2012
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You're way off here.
We have a once in a lifetime team on our hands. Post round 6 we didn't lose a game by more than 6 points and our record was 11-1-4. 2 of the loses were against the 2 grand finalists by 3 and 6 points. Then you have the 3 week melt down against bottom teams that all should have been wins. Then you have the elim final loss by 2 points.
How could you not look at that and think how little it would take to turn every loss and draw into a win? Like literally 1 mistake less per loss/draw and we go 16-0 to end the season and we are sitting top of the ladder with possibly a home QF. Then you have the opportunity to recruit 2 ball winners, who at their best are ELITE, that covers the weakest part of our squad. You look at think we could play exactly the same, but add those 2 guys, and those close loses turn to wins. Even without those 2, you back the squad in to learn from those mistakes and turn some of those losses into wins puirely from that. It hasn't worked out like that, but that seems more than reasonable to think at the time.
How could you not take that chance? We've got once in a lifetime core nearing the end. This is the last shot for them. You really gonna not take a swing here? You're really not going to back them and just fall back down the ladder? Why? That would be cowardly.
Lazy comparison. This is a surface level look at 'dynasty team recruit midfielders after peak'. We're not like Hawthorn because Hawthorns fall wasn't just because the recruits, it was the ignoring the draft that killed them. Something we have not done.
Hawks top 30 picks:
2011: 0 (Top pick #33)
2012: #28
2013: #24
2014: 0 (Top pick #31)
2015: #19, #22
2016: 0 (Top pick #74)
2017: 0 (Top pick #45)
2018: 0 (Top pick #52)
In 2016-2018 they drafted 1 player in the top #50. So they already had a massive hole in their list from the previous 5 years with only early second rounders at best. Then from 3 drafts their top picks are #74, #45 and #52. They basically sat out of 3 drafts.
Now look at Richmond. 2023 draft for us is the equivalent to 2017 for them really.
2017: #17, #20, #25
2018: #20
2019: #21
2020: 0 (Top pick #40)
2021: #9, #17, #28, #29, #30
2022: 0 (Top pick #45)
2023: Our own 2nd rounder. Which will be top 30. Potential to get more through trades and F/A.
We haven't ignored the draft. And we prepared for the forfeit of 2022 drafting by stacking up 5 top 40 picks the year before.
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- #40
But you have to hit them. Pre 2021 which we dont know about yet, only balta and dow remain. Which kinda only leaves balta cos dow will most likely be delisted.
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If the 2021 crop turn into busts
We are dead in the water.
Lord of the Wings
Premiership Player
Incorrect
I dont think we can get back into the top 10 without giving away a player of very high ilk like a Bolton or Balta in the trade which we wouldn't want to do.
I do think we have options to get back into the 20-30 range and could possibly hit the draft with 2-3 picks between 20-30, and if a bid for Naish comes after 30 hopefully match that with some later picks.
Would effectively give us 4x kids rated inside the top 35 rated or so for the 2023 draft which would be a pretty good outcome after trading away a 1st and not needing to lose someone super important.
I do think we have options to get back into the 20-30 range and could possibly hit the draft with 2-3 picks between 20-30, and if a bid for Naish comes after 30 hopefully match that with some later picks.
Would effectively give us 4x kids rated inside the top 35 rated or so for the 2023 draft which would be a pretty good outcome after trading away a 1st and not needing to lose someone super important.
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Richmond’s list presents the opportunity for a new coach to compete with the best straight away
When a coach departs, the list is either in full rebuild mode or needs serious work. That’s not the case with the Tigers. See what the new coach has to work with.
Jay ClarkFollow
@ClarkyHeraldSun
3 min read
May 24, 2023 - 6:00AM
Richmond’s list presents a rare opportunity for the club’s new coach.
Regularly when there’s a change at the top, the list is either in full rebuild mode and needs serious work such as Hawthorn and North Melbourne, or there are towering expectations to break a drought like when Michael Voss stepped into the Carlton hot seat.
But at Punt Rd, there is fertile middle ground.
And the new coach won’t see holes everywhere on the list; they’ll see stars. Especially in the midfield.
Whoever takes over the keys from Damien Hardwick will be handed an engine room containing five borderline A-Graders which helps make this job vacancy one of the most appealing gigs to pop up over the past decade.
There are no training wheels or L-plates on a midfield unit led by Shai Bolton, Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper and versatile pair Liam Baker and Jayden Short.
Yes, the Tigers handed over some prized early picks including their first choice in this year’s draft for Hopper and Taranto, and the critics have suggested the club has sold its future.
But the reality is Richmond thought it was a genuine top-four contender rather than a bottom-four side when they made the moves last year.
It is, in part, why Hardwick stepped aside. Richmond has so far underperformed in 2023 considering it has been top-four for age and experience this year and Hardwick said himself, he didn’t have a lot left in the tank.
Shai Bolton is ready to be a midfield star. Picture: Getty Images
But there remains considerable opportunity in this list, and those at Punt Rd continue to look at the talent stock with a glass half-full mindset.
This is a club, perhaps a bit like Geelong in 2015 or Collingwood in 2021, which does not want to be out of the finals mix for long.
There are some gaps in the list, clearly.
And it will be interesting to see what conversations take place with Dustin Martin, in particular, as clubs in the northern states will surely check in to see if he is interested in a fresh start out of the Melbourne spotlight.
That’s despite the club and those close to Martin confident he will remain.
Gary Ablett was 33 when he was traded from Gold Coast back to Geelong for a swap of first and second-round picks, and Martin, who turns 32 next month, will certainly receive enquiries.
Who will coach Richmond in 2024?
Ken HinkleyAdam Simpson
Justin Leppitsch
Nathan Buckley
Don Pyke
Adem Yze
Andrew McQualter
Someone else
Cast your vote
But expect the Tigers to remain proactive in the exchange period as they circle GWS Giants’ swingman Harry Himmelberg after losing Mabior Chol (Gold Coast) and Callum Coleman-Jones (North Melbourne) in recent years and most likely Jack Riewoldt (retirement) at season’s end.
If Himmelberg joins forces with a fit Tom Lynch, powered by its talented midfield, and Josh Gibcus returns to the defence, then Carlton would once again have a battle on its hands in the blockbuster season-opener in Round 1 next year, under a new coach.
Some midfield speed will be on the wish-list to help compliment the muscle Hopper and Taranto provide inside. Daniel Rioli has been a stand-out this year creating the play alongside Baker.
And two players from the 2021 draft Tyler Sonsie and Tom Brown certainly have considerable upside.
Harry Himmelberg is on Richmond’s free agent radar. Picture: Michael Klein
Some more polish at ground level would also assist Richmond in the forward half as the connection and execution in attack has been arguably their biggest headache in 2023.
Hardwick looked like he had a heart attack when Rhyan Mansell’s attempted match-winning set shot failed to score in the final minutes against Essendon on Saturday night.
What a sliding doors moment it turned out to be.
But if the Tigers need another couple of quality small forwards and pacy playmakers, history shows they can still be found in the second or third rounds of drafts, and next year’s free agency crop is already looking like a bumper group.
There will continue to be golden opportunities in the free agency space for a destination club such as Richmond, considering its enormous off-field commercial powers and facilities.
Down back has been a problem in recent years, and Dylan Grimes is in the twilight of his career.
But the addition of Gibcus will be huge for the Tigers when he returns from a serious hamstring problem alongside Noah Balta and Nathan Broad, if he re-signs.
And when it comes to the ruck Samson Ryan has taken huge strides in the absence of Toby Nankervis.
Much has focused on what Richmond has lacked and how they have failed to fire under Hardwick this season, registering only three-and-a-half wins for the season so far.
But, unlike many new coaches who take over struggling teams, a quick bounce remains a distinct possibility for the yellow and black under a new coach next season.
How Richmond's list stacks up
A-GRADE PLAYMAKERS
Shai Bolton
Jacob Hopper
Tim Taranto
Liam Baker
Jayden Short
Daniel Rioli
RETIRING?
Trent Cotchin
Jack Riewoldt
Robbie Tarrant
BACK LINE PILLARS
Josh Gibcus
Noah Balta
Nathan Broad
GOAL KICKERS
Tom Lynch
Maurice Rioli
Noah Cumberland
UPSIDE
Samson Ryan
Maurice Rioli
Tyler Sonsie
Tom Brown
Hugo Ralphsmith
- Oct 29, 2017
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Who do we go with our pick which will be around pick 23?
Best key fwd?
Best available?
Best key fwd?
Best available?
All depends on whether we get Himmelberg or not.
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Best key forward .
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Unlikely, so best key fwd it is. I wonder who will be available...
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