Opinion 2024 and Beyond

[caesar88]

I know the argument has been done to death - but I’m firmly of a view that our game style was superior over the past 2 years when sans-Buddy.

If the talls continue to progress, coupled with our newfound midfield strength….. 2024 holds enormous promise.

Of course, luck with injury will always be the no.1 caveat. A long term injury to Tommy Mac would, for example, be a huge blow.

And the no.2 caveat - stop the bloody defensive “protect the lead” mindset from creeping in when 3 goals up at 3/4 time!!!

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

 

[rustycrate]

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

1. I reckon point 1.
2. The addition of Grundy (and to a lesser extent Adams) and improvement to the team they give
3. And a little improvement from all and we have a flag.

There is improvement in the team.
In the mids, except for Parker, Adams and Mills the rest are 23 or younger. The improvement is huge. Especially Errol.

I have never been more positive or so excited.

 

[BloodySwan]

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

Our midfield needs to turn up and not drop off at 3quarter time. Hopefully the addition of Grundy, Adams and JJ can address our inside weakness but our midfield not being the unit we believe it can be is a huge part of the games we lost - and is why we lost in the Grand Final as well.

 

[caesar88]

Our midfield needs to turn up and not drop off at 3quarter time. Hopefully the addition of Grundy, Adams and JJ can address our inside weakness but our midfield not being the unit we believe it can be is a huge part of the games we lost - and is why we lost in the Grand Final as well.

I'm inclined to write the GF off as a one-off capitulation, even though it bore all the familiar traits of our all-too-familiar midfield beltings. Murmurings have persisted that Mills' achilles flared up during the finals. Rowbottom was at the tail end of a ballistic six or seven week run of games. Hickey unfortunately had a mare. Parker was assigned Dangerfield. (I thought Parker actually gave a damn good effort and typically tried his guts out, but it was just a match-up that never should've happened.)

It was a perfect storm IMO.

Prior to that, I thought we were consistently taking it up to the best teams in the competition and matching their midfields. In the second half of 2022, we won four out of five games we had against top 4 opponents. In 2023 we won none of them.

I think they've shown they can do it but we've gotta try and identify what worked there and how we can replicate it and build on it. I don't know if we can continue this hamster wheel we've been on since about 2018 of cycling through various iterations of Swans midfielders and then scratching our heads wondering why they aren't working together as we'd hoped.

 

[Kiama Chris]

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

Point 1 very much so.
Point 2 yes but we need improvement from Logan and Joel too. Not necessarily huge but consistent.
Point 3 often breaking even is as important as winning your position and 4 quarter performance with a strong start and finish is vital.
In such a close competition % will be huge so playing games right out will be super important.

 

[wolftone57]

If JUH is available, I'd certainly be thinking about it. Though we have this year to see if Logan can take another step, McLean can maintain his good form, and Amartey can play out most of a season.

If players are "flogs" for leaving the club that drafted them, then JPK is a "flog", Ted Richards, Buddy, Paul Williams, Jolly, Ball, Nick Davis, Shaw, Mattner etc are all "flogs" (most of whom played key roles in Swans flags). Then we've just brought in a bunch of "flogs" in the off season.

Trading is part of the game, players decide to leave clubs for various reasons, that's it.

The nature of professional sport is that players transfer. I think calling anyone a flog for leaving is wrong

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[wolftone57]

For this year, ladder permitting, i’d like to see us in say Round 17 or so put players through an intensified training program whilst rotating / resting the squad a bit. We need them tapering down into the finals so we are fit and firing - not arriving exhausted. Thought Geelong did this quite well - ofc ladder position dictates whether you can do this.

Mills injury might prove a blessing in disguise - in fact he may be fully unhindered as persistent foot issues have plagued him recently - with rest the only tonic.

It’s an exciting thought but our fitness coaches need to be planning for the whole season not just match by match - which I’m sure they would be.

Oh, by the way, I like fast players.

Yes Jack was fast. I remember him having half the field to himself, the ball was kicked long on the slingshot to him. He chased gathered bounced & fumbled the ball, it went behind him, he went back to retrieve the ball & was wrapped up. I was horrified. Sometimes you just can't turn track stars into footballers lol

But lind you I love to see pace. Jetts, Just, Ollie, Blakey, Campbell, Cory in the 2nds, Chad too. Bobby Hill etc.

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[Heeney2Franklin]

The nature of professional sport is that players transfer. I think calling anyone a flog for leaving is wrong

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Of course! But look at the difference between the Hewett and Dawson departures and how they are viewed here.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I'm inclined to write the GF off as a one-off capitulation, even though it bore all the familiar traits of our all-too-familiar midfield beltings. Murmurings have persisted that Mills' achilles flared up during the finals. Rowbottom was at the tail end of a ballistic six or seven week run of games. Hickey unfortunately had a mare. Parker was assigned Dangerfield. (I thought Parker actually gave a damn good effort and typically tried his guts out, but it was just a match-up that never should've happened.)

It was a perfect storm IMO.

Prior to that, I thought we were consistently taking it up to the best teams in the competition and matching their midfields. In the second half of 2022, we won four out of five games we had against top 4 opponents. In 2023 we won none of them.

I think they've shown they can do it but we've gotta try and identify what worked there and how we can replicate it and build on it. I don't know if we can continue this hamster wheel we've been on since about 2018 of cycling through various iterations of Swans midfielders and then scratching our heads wondering why they aren't working together as we'd hoped.

Hmm that would be ignoring systemic collapses in Elimination/Semi finals as well.

 

[caesar88]

Hmm that would be ignoring systemic collapses in Elimination/Semi finals as well.

Not with that group from the 2022 GF.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Not with that group from the 2022 GF.

Thats fair we did beat Melbourne twice in 2022 who just about have the best midfield/ruck combination in the comp.

So that group is capable of matching the best.

 

[caesar88]

Thats fair we did beat Melbourne twice in 2022 who just about have the best midfield/ruck combination in the comp.

So that group is capable of matching the best.

And Collingwood twice as well, who would go on to win the flag a year later and who at the time had Taylor Adams in their midfield full time.

We lost all three games we played against those sides in 2023 by an average of 33 points.

 

[Dan87]

Two years is a long time and the game is always evolving our game plan is too

Can't just point to the past for the future

 

[caesar88]

Two years is a long time and the game is always evolving our game plan is too

Can't just point to the past for the future

They aren't the past though. They're all still on our list and, with the exception of Mills, all likely to be part of the story this year.

What happened in 2022 can absolutely be relevant to what happens in 2024.

 

[Dan87]

They aren't the past though. They're all still on our list and, with the exception of Mills, all likely to be part of the story this year.

What happened in 2022 can absolutely be relevant to what happens in 2024.

It doesn't work like that the tactics game is always in motion plus the opposition has found ways to improve and adopt winning tactics that have come up

Simply put, it's a different competition

 

[Dan87]

I mean we're going to have a structure and play our way and have fundamentals that are similar

But the game is always in flux

 

[caesar88]

I mean we're going to have a structure and play our way and have fundamentals that are similar

But the game is always in flux

We might have to agree to disagree on this one!

 

[Dan87]

We might have to agree to disagree on this one!

Tactics are constantly evolving, lists are constantly changing you can't disagree with that

 

[caesar88]

Tactics are constantly evolving, lists are constantly changing you can't disagree with that

Not disagreeing with it at all. I was disagreeing with the implication that what worked in 2022 can't work a year or two later. Unless I misunderstood the implication, in which case I apologise.

Things change, but things can also stay the same.

 

[Dan87]

Not disagreeing with it at all. I was disagreeing with the implication that what worked in 2022 can't work a year or two later. Unless I misunderstood the implication, in which case I apologise.

Things change, but things can also stay the same.

Winning is so simple just do what we did last time when we took the comp by storm and no one had put the time into figuring out our game plan

And we still fell short

 

[caesar88]

Winning is so simple just do what we did last time when we took the comp by storm and no one had put the time into figuring out our game plan

And we still fell short

You're putting words in my mouth I never said there. Never said we took the competition by storm. I said we matched it with the best sides, and we did.

In 2022 we went 5-1 against top 4 sides. In 2023 we went 0-5 against top 4 sides.

Clearly we were missing or lacking something in the 2023 games that we had in the 2022 games. Whether it was a player, or a tactic, or a mentality, or the buy-in, or the fitness, or all of the above. I'm not pretending to know the answer (I have an idea but that isn't worth much.)

I'm just saying I don't agree with the notion that we could not compare what worked in 2022 with what didn't work in 2023 and see if we can carry those things over into a new season.

It's the best point of reference this current group has.

 

[SGBeach]

I would go so far as to say that three things need to happen for us to be top four and a chance at winning the flag this year:

1. McCartin needs to stay fit.
2. McLean needs to pick up where he left off.
3. We need to at least double the amount of winners we had on the field in 2023.

Fingers crossed.

Ive got massive hopes for a top 4 finish.
Our midfield will be better.
The inside... Grundy coming in gives us the best ruck we've had in years. Rowbottom and Warner being a year older will also improve and Adams will only help.
The Outside.. Gulden, Campbell and JMac will all be a year older and better for it. They've all got elite kicks!

With plenty to rotate through the mids and maybe less need to do so (due to greater physical development in our young mids), forwards like Paps and Heeney can play forward more - With better entries and more time forward, its not hard to imagine 40+ goals each this year!
Add that to the goals from Logan, Amartey, McLean, Hayward, Wicks/Konstanty/Parker, the inside mids, the wingers, and even the half backs (both Blakey and Florent have a few in them).. Thats a lot of goals!
The most goals wins.

Agree McCartin staying fit is very important.
McLean is less important - Reid, Buller and Ladhams can all play that role and contribute if in form.
Reckon Big years from Mills (off to a bad start - but might be prime in the 2nd half of the season), Heeney and Paps is huge. Those three are the elite players in their prime. All are unstoppable on their day.

 

[blackbelair]

Ive got massive hopes for a top 4 finish.
Our midfield will be better.
The inside... Grundy coming in gives us the best ruck we've had in years. Rowbottom and Warner being a year older will also improve and Adams will only help.
The Outside.. Gulden, Campbell and JMac will all be a year older and better for it. They've all got elite kicks!

With plenty to rotate through the mids and maybe less need to do so (due to greater physical development in our young mids), forwards like Paps and Heeney can play forward more - With better entries and more time forward, its not hard to imagine 40+ goals each this year!
Add that to the goals from Logan, Amartey, McLean, Hayward, Wicks/Konstanty/Parker, the inside mids, the wingers, and even the half backs (both Blakey and Florent have a few in them).. Thats a lot of goals!
The most goals wins.

Agree McCartin staying fit is very important.
McLean is less important - Reid, Buller and Ladhams can all play that role and contribute if in form.
Reckon Big years from Mills (off to a bad start - but might be prime in the 2nd half of the season), Heeney and Paps is huge. Those three are the elite players in their prime. All are unstoppable on their day.

I love this

 

[Kolah]

I don't really have an issue with the backline. We need more depth but I think the players that are in it every week generally do their job and hold up well considering our tendency to allow surges of opposition entries. Even guys like Fox can come in and it's pretty seamless. I don't know what it is but it's like Horse-coached teams are allergic to the concept of a mediocre back six.

I just think we need to start finding some younger reinforcements for these guys, because within a few years, Rampe, Lloyd & Cunningham are going to go in quick succession and we'll want to have ready-to-go replacements and not a handful of debutants.

It’s a good backline but we’re all so nice. We need a Maynard. You can get away with nice in the home and away but come finals, you need someone who’s nasty.


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[Kiama Chris]

It’s a good backline but we’re all so nice. We need a Maynard. You can get away with nice in the home and away but come finals, you need someone who’s nasty.


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I think you need HARD rather than nasty. When you tackle aim to make them feel it. Legal bumps. Tough shepherds. Full on pressure. Stand up to bullsh*t nastiness but keep it legal. Take no prisoners.