List Mgmt. 2024 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

 

[The King!]

Of the young players yet to establish themselves, I’m excited about Sheldrick, Cleary and Snell.

Beyond that - not so much. Green maybe, but he’s still a complete unknown.

This is a very important draft for us.

Yep I mean I can see the club saying

- Mills is presumably better for a pre season and can get to his best

- Heeney maintains form

- Adams - improves ?

- Mccartin Melican Lloyd Florent Hayward Papley Maintain and that vintage

Tall forwards improve , Gulden, Warner, Jmac etc all improve .


Then Sheldrick and say Cleary become best 22 . You then cobble together support from say guys yet to debut and it's a nice list.

 

[wolftone57]

Yes but can you change the value of the original contract? Take the Warner example, can you change the money they give him for the 2025 season if he was to sign an extension or can an extension only be added onto the original contract

When renegotiating a new deal I believe there are a suite of incentives. For instance, the deal rising with the percentage of the new cap. This is something that has been written into several player's contracts I believe.



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[anotherletdown]

We should be thinking of one thing and it’s not a player wanting to go- it’s purely and simply getting the best deal moving forward. 43 is dead unders as it is that moves to 50 plus with all these bids. Should be able to get their second with a swap anyway alternatively two upgrades either this year or next. Be happy to upgrade our third to a second this year sending our third with Parker

If Brisbane, GC, Essendon are Carlton are paying with mid 30's picks, 43 will end up coming in quite a bit.

I think 43 is about right. We could argue for more but it's not worth it

 

[FreeAgent1]

Anyone waiting for Sparklelord… come on down buddy.

We know it was bullshit “ITT” but it was entertaining nevertheless! Liven this thread up with what is otherwise a chat about the veracity of late second vs early third for a 31 year old we are pushing out for general speed and salary cap reasons…

 

[dosser]

If Parker goes to Norf they will have more premiership players on their list than we do.

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[hairy biker]

Looking at our list
Uncontracted players
Francis-required. Has filled in with injuries to our first choice key defenders.
Hanily-required. We are short on quality small forwards. Wicks is serviceable but prone to doing stupid stuff. Need a quality goal sneak who applies pressure.
Konstanty-Trade/Delist. Lots of water has flowed under the bridge and he will be held accountable for that.
McAndrew-Quandary. To keep him we need to upgrade him to the primary list. That means we will need to open up another primary list spot and delist another player(Konstanty?).
Mitchell-Keep if list spot is not required. Not Shown he should be delisted but not shown he should be kept. More aggressive list managers would delist him.
Kirk-I would move on. But I think Sydney owes its Academy players hope. Keeping Kirk on the list inspires hope for future academy players. Ditto McAndrew.

We have 35 Primary list players. We could draft in 3.
We have 5 rookies. We could rookie 1 more.

I reckon there more delistings to come after the trade period. More places will open up.

Thanks Rusty, love that the list is back.

Just a few observations.

McAndrew can stay on the rookie list.
In August the AFL introduced a new rule;
The AFL will introduce a trigger for an additional fourth year on the Rookie List where the Rookie has played less than ten career AFL matches, which will then apply in same way for access to an additional fifth year. Total aggregate years on the Rookie List will be capped at five years (5.5 years for Mid-Season Rookie Draft). (McAndrew 2021 MSD).

This change aims to assist clubs to invest in players who may take longer to develop.

Agree with you on Konstanty.
The way our new list boss in Chris Keane spoke today, it was very much we've had discussions with Jacob & his management and we'll see what unfolds.
Definitely sounded like we'll take a token pick for him and if nothing eventuates he'll be delisted.

Caleb Mitchell
Not a line in the sand view, but I'd prefer if we retained him and developed him as an inside player.
I thought he looked his best when deployed in that role in the reserves.

Chris Keane
I was actually under the impression KB remained our list manager this season, phasing out in 2025, but Keane definitely listed as our List Manager on Trade Radio.

I'll miss the Beatson/Beveridge/Twomey banter.

 

[dosser]

We gave a premiership defender a 3 year deal and promptly turned him into a makeshift VFL forward.

The Hamling trade has dented my confidence in our trading strategy.

He may have been a premiership defender a few years ago, but we offered him a deal while he was toiling away in the WAFL and couldn't get a game for the Dockers.
It was a gamble that didn't pay off when we found that Francis was better than him in the backline so we moved him forward so that we had space to continue the development of Edwards and Snell down back.
From what he has shown, Hamling wasn't going to get a game with the Dockers this past season as well. It was an astute pick up in theory that we all applauded. Unfortunately, we all expected him to be better than he is.

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[SeanM]

We gave a premiership defender a 3 year deal and promptly turned him into a makeshift VFL forward.

The Hamling trade has dented my confidence in our trading strategy.

My guess is that Hamling was intended as experienced key position depth. Given the previous season we had injury issues with the McCartins and Melican at various times. To the extent that Mills and Gould are playing as key position lock down defenders.

But this season Melican and McCartin had good seasons. But we lost Buller and Reid. So we ended up lacking key forwards.

Though I think we should have given Hamling a chance in defence at some point to see if he improved things.

 

[SeanM]

Sometimes it is hard to predict which players will perform and who will struggle the next season. When you are trying to work out where the improvement will come from

12 months ago I would not have predicted Heeney would go back into the mids and finish equal 4th in Brownlow votes. Or Melican stays fit and becomes our most consistent defender. Or Roberts plays almost every game off half back. Or our 3 talls manage to remain uninjured and play together for the whole season.

You can even see it, in how the experts' preseason predictions can wildly differ to how the season will turn out.

 

[Bloods86]

He may have been a premiership defender a few years ago, but we offered him a deal while he was toiling away in the WAFL and couldn't get a game for the Dockers.
It was a gamble that didn't pay off when we found that Francis was better than him in the backline so we moved him forward so that we had space to continue the development of Edwards and Snell down back.
From what he has shown, Hamling wasn't going to get a game with the Dockers this past season as well. It was an astute pick up in theory that we all applauded. Unfortunately, we all expected him to be better than he is.

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We moved Hamling because we had no key forwards.

 

[Bloods86]

We gave a premiership defender a 3 year deal and promptly turned him into a makeshift VFL forward.

The Hamling trade has dented my confidence in our trading strategy.

Please don't make me explain why Hamling was moved forward again.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Please don't make me explain why Hamling was moved forward again.

I understand that “we had no other forwards” theory.

But first priority should be to making sure we have cover for the firsts.

Hamling the forward provides no injury cover to the seniors.

 

[Neverwas]

I suppose the difference being that when Brisbane copped injuries, they replaced Jarryd Lyons with the eventual Norm Smith Medallist Will Ashcroft, and they replaced Lincoln McCarthy with a guy who would kick 4 goals in a GF in Kai Lohmann, and they replaced Darcy Gardiner with one of the most underrated key defenders in the comp in Jack Payne.

Etc.

Their depth meant that they could turn their injury curses into blessings. They didn't end up winning the flag with their injured players, they won the flag with their replacements. Not sure we would be able to do that.

My thoughts exactly. The steady list improvement over the year was enviable.

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[LukeParkerno1]

How often in the last 3 seasons has he actually played? He played 19 in 2022. Since then he has compiled 8 games. Plus he is 31. It only gets worse from here

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For a salary dump I’d consider it but the Tigers would pay the most of it

 

[DobmusEdge]

Looking at our list
Uncontracted players
Francis-required. Has filled in with injuries to our first choice key defenders.
Hanily-required. We are short on quality small forwards. Wicks is serviceable but prone to doing stupid stuff. Need a quality goal sneak who applies pressure.
Konstanty-Trade/Delist. Lots of water has flowed under the bridge and he will be held accountable for that.
McAndrew-Quandary. To keep him we need to upgrade him to the primary list. That means we will need to open up another primary list spot and delist another player(Konstanty?).
Mitchell-Keep if list spot is not required. Not Shown he should be delisted but not shown he should be kept. More aggressive list managers would delist him.
Kirk-I would move on. But I think Sydney owes its Academy players hope. Keeping Kirk on the list inspires hope for future academy players. Ditto McAndrew.

We have 35 Primary list players. We could draft in 3.
We have 5 rookies. We could rookie 1 more.

I reckon there more delistings to come after the trade period. More places will open up.

View attachment 2134641

Can Francis be moved from primary to rookie list? Like Reid and Taylor have in the past?

 

[SGBeach]

We gave a premiership defender a 3 year deal and promptly turned him into a makeshift VFL forward.

The Hamling trade has dented my confidence in our trading strategy.

That may have had something to do with wanting to develop Snell and Edwards as key defenders.?

We drafted the best ruck in the draft and predominantly played him up forward.. Maybe to improve his forward craft and protect his younger body from the rigours of rucking.?

Theres reasons why these things happen.. often they dont make sense with the info we have.

 

[Bloods86]

I understand that “we had no other forwards” theory.

But first priority should be to making sure we have cover for the firsts.

Hamling the forward provides no injury cover to the seniors.

Why can't he?

I've jokingly called him Joel "Plugger" Hamling a few times, he's at best going to be your 3rd option, but he's clearly doing as well as a bunch of other VFL KPFs. Doing as well as McLean and Amartey were when they were called up to seniors.

Especially if we want someone to do a defensive role on an intercepting KPD, or in games we want to go a bit smaller and use him as a swingman.

We knew what he could do as a KPD, and Francis was better earlier on, so why not give the younger guys more time to develop down there.

I think it was a fair move to recruit Francis and then Hamling given the loss of Paddy, the non arrival of Gould, as well as reliability concerns over the rest of our senior KPDs. Would I have preferred Barrass the first time, Moore, Howard etc, sure, but I think we got in who we could.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

If Brisbane, GC, Essendon are Carlton are paying with mid 30's picks, 43 will end up coming in quite a bit.

I think 43 is about right. We could argue for more but it's not worth it

I’d accept it if it’s the last day of the trade period but it’s still as usual our. Club not showing a backbone at the trade period. Can you name one trade that we’ve actually got a good deal on? Yet we are happy to cop a trash deal for Dawson a worse one for Mitchell, etc. when do we get to a stage and say enough is enough. Give us fair value. That’s all I ask. If you think Parker is worth a 3 year deal he’s worth more than a mid third rounder

 

[Andyy]

He's cooked!

My thoughts exactly.

I don't see the point in trading him.

Big pay package but we have nobody else to pay so we don't need to offload it.

I'm hoping a new S&C coach helps.

 

[Bloods86]

I’d accept it if it’s the last day of the trade period but it’s still as usual our. Club not showing a backbone at the trade period. Can you name one trade that we’ve actually got a good deal on? Yet we are happy to cop a trash deal for Dawson a worse one for Mitchell, etc. when do we get to a stage and say enough is enough. Give us fair value. That’s all I ask. If you think Parker is worth a 3 year deal he’s worth more than a mid third rounder

Did pretty well with Stephens.

Are you seriously having a go at the club over Dawson? We don't take the pick, they get him for free. We delayed for a while, but we knew the outcome.

Also, 43, which will come in a little, is not a mid 3rd rounder. You know this. I'd like a bit more, but I don't think we're getting ripped off, especially as he's on a fair bit.

 

[SGBeach]

This would wanna be a 2018-level draft haul if we aren't gonna trade for any talent because gee whiz I'm not sure our current list will do next year, especially if we get injuries.

Its not as bad as you make out, in fact, that current list won more games than any other last season..

 

[wolftone57]

From my perspective it comes down to when we think Green will be ready to be a half-decent back up. IMO that could be as early as 2026, and by then it doesn't make sense to keep McAndrew around as a third string ruckman. If Green's development stalls, then I'd rather target someone who can be a more effective back-up and could possibly mature into Grundy's role.

As for McAndrew himself, I think he's an OK physical presence in the contest but even in the VFL he really doesn't get involved around the ground. He's also 24. I can't see him being anything better than a stopgap.

Admittedly most of me thinking Mitchell was the next McInerney was probably more down to their draft and playing positions, as well as relative status as bolters. I don't really have a great vibe on how he plays which is a bit lazy admittedly. If he's good in the VFL then that's a tick in his favour, but not having a standout trait could hurt his upside.

Fair call re: Kirk. I'm mostly going on what others have said there.

I don't think Green can develop if he is not played in the ruck. For most of the year he only pinch hit in the ruck. He played as a key forward. If you are going to develop a ruck then develop him. Ladhams is a waste of space & as thick as two short planks. Delist him. elevate Big Mac & Green to the two ruck spots. Big Mac's taps are pretty good, mostly to advantage. Keep working with Green & his will be too.



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[Kbroome]

I don't think Green can develop if he is not played in the ruck. For most of the year he only pinch hit in the ruck. He played as a key forward. If you are going to develop a ruck then develop him. Ladhams is a waste of space & as thick as two short planks. Delist him. elevate Big Mac & Green to the two ruck spots. Big Mac's taps are pretty good, mostly to advantage. Keep working with Green & his will be too.



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I think in Year 1 it was the right move to only partially ruck Green in the 2s just because his body wasn't at the physical level to ruck majority of the time. Another pre season and i reckon he could do it but have a feeling its more likely to be a 50/50 split with Ladhams or McAndrew