Autopsy 2024 Elimination Final Blues blown away in first half. Never looked likely.

[Andyy]

Shame, I was hoping Lions would get the ass.

Blues decimated by injury at the pointy end of the season. Would have been a different game if they were fielding a list even 80-90% fit.

 

[Soapy V]

players aren’t buying what he’s selling?

I don't know the answer. Like everyone else I can only speculate

Issue I have is we lost 8 of last 10 games. Only beat North & WCE and had the second worst record in the AFL behind Richmond over last 10 rounds

Then we lose a final by being down 60-0 in first half with game on the line

In anyones language that is a disaster and what is worse is the way we have fallen away so quickly and so badly

Questions need to be asked and changes need to be made otherwise we waste this opportunity

 

[Accidental genius]

I don't know the answer. Like everyone else I can only speculate

Issue I have is we lost 8 of last 10 games. Only beat North & WCE and had the second worst record in the AFL behind Richmond over last 10 rounds

Then we lose a final by being down 60-0 in first half with game on the line

In anyones language that is a disaster and what is worse is the way we have fallen away so quickly and badly

Questions need to be asked and changes need to be made otherwise we waste this opportunity

We can trace the fall off to the season back to the game against gws where we were killing it up until 2Q (?)...from that point onwards we haven't recovered.

We put plenty of effort late in the gws game and in the following weeks but the injury crisis just got too much.

Its a bit weird how so many were reported to be injured around the same time?

What exactly happened around that time?

Was it the intense training blocks - even though some have categorically said no? Has any of your contacts given feedback on this?

Something crazy occurred following that gws loss.

 

[Its an amigo!]

We were hammered in this game because of the decisions at the selection table once again, and what is even worse, these horrendous selection decisions have been going on for the last two months. The best game, selections wise was against West Coast where we were forced to give some guys - Binns, Lord, Moir - games as we had so many injuries.

Bringing in 6 guys from injury for an elimination final was always going to be a disaster. I don't how any of the coaches or whoever makes these decisions for selection cannot see this. Of that group of injured guys, only TDK and McKay looked like they were game ready.

Ironically, TDK started as sub (a ruckman as sub!!!), and then of all players to sub off it is Kennedy.

Why Kennedy? If there is any player in our side that has been totally misused by the coaches in the last 3 years it is Kennedy. He never gets to play his natural position, gets thrown around all over the ground to plug holes or starts as sub, but whenever he does get his opportunity he looks great in the midfield. Surely the move would have been to take off Durdin or Motlop instead?

Two weeks to plan for this game and we don't put a hard tag on Zorko?

An elimination final and we allow the opposition to score 10 goals before we score?? Where is the hunger and drive in this group? Again two weeks of planning for this game?

I don't know who is ultimately responsible for our selections, but this really needs to be addressed.

 

[Y Goat]

Absolutely unconvinced. Especially if we keep churning out the same names in our best 22.

Our players as a group, and as individuals, are simply not good enough to make the step. Last season was the exception to the rule.

Tough calls need to be made on some of our regular 22 players..Thats an absolute necessity IMO

Major changes are needed for us to make finals next year

The way we fell away in the second half of the season is incredibly concerning

( ^ re Finals/ contending next year):

Strongly agree with comments above. Without major changes:

• key players brought in (pace in midfield*, dangerous forwards, KPD etc)
• Game Plan significant tweaks
• selection based on demonstrated on field performance, esp. ‘relentless pressure brought’ to Oppo
• also suggest we need some fresh tactical coaching input

… think (without the above changes) we are off the pace of modern game and on track to finish around 10-12. The old ‘talented spine’ isn’t enough the ways it’s being played now

- Hawks have gone past us, Cats gone past us, both using youthful energy, pace, good disposal. Sydney teams x2 obviously ahead of us on speed and ball use.
- Freo likely to go past us with off season additions, Dogs, Pies and even * and north could/should aswell. Plus there’s always potential bolter like Suns…. Grim prospects if we don’t change…

The key will be whether the club key decision makers can be brutal in self analysis and recognise weaknesses/needs as above, and take aggressive action this off season.

*Mid- someone fast inside outside like Butters.. what would it take?.. do we have will wherewithal to take action like this..?

 

[bourbons]

Pretty harsh on the coach and MC committee I reckon - we're pretty good in junk time, so they just decided to initiate junk time well inside the first half. A rarely seen and cunning stratagem that showed some promise but didn't quite pay off.

(c'arn ya gotta laugh or else you cry)

 

[gbatman]

It’s more than a tweak. We are at a real crossroads

You don’t lose 8 of 10 games and then go 60-0 in a final if it’s just a few minor issues

Some serious changes need to occur. We have already seen one around our fitness team

Coaching, recruiting and development are next

100% If we want to perform on the field next year, we need to perform off it.

That means a big trade period and some good recruits.

Modernise the team, bring in some onball and forward recruits. Hope we are aggressive trading players.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

We were hammered in this game because of the decisions at the selection table once again, and what is even worse, these horrendous selection decisions have been going on for the last two months. The best game, selections wise was against West Coast where we were forced to give some guys - Binns, Lord, Moir - games as we had so many injuries.

Bringing in 6 guys from injury for an elimination final was always going to be a disaster. I don't how any of the coaches or whoever makes these decisions for selection cannot see this. Of that group of injured guys, only TDK and McKay looked like they were game ready.

Ironically, TDK started as sub (a ruckman as sub!!!), and then of all players to sub off it is Kennedy.

Why Kennedy? If there is any player in our side that has been totally misused by the coaches in the last 3 years it is Kennedy. He never gets to play his natural position, gets thrown around all over the ground to plug holes or starts as sub, but whenever he does get his opportunity he looks great in the midfield. Surely the move would have been to take off Durdin or Motlop instead?

Two weeks to plan for this game and we don't put a hard tag on Zorko?

An elimination final and we allow the opposition to score 10 goals before we score?? Where is the hunger and drive in this group? Again two weeks of planning for this game?

I don't know who is ultimately responsible for our selections, but this really needs to be addressed.

Whichever way you look at it, it was a total f...ng embarrassment for everyone involved with the Club.

And Voss has to take the lion's share of the blame.... he gets paid the big bikkies for a reason.

 

[goreds]

We can trace the fall off to the season back to the game against gws where we were killing it up until 2Q (?)...from that point onwards we haven't recovered.

We put plenty of effort late in the gws game and in the following weeks but the injury crisis just got too much.

Its a bit weird how so many were reported to be injured around the same time?

What exactly happened around that time?

Was it the intense training blocks - even though some have categorically said no? Has any of your contacts given feedback on this?

Something crazy occurred following that gws loss.

What GWS did in that game became the blueprint for playing Carlton...

It just got easier for opposition(inferior) teams when our injuries started to mount.

 

[gbatman]

Gee you would love to have your time and pick the side again.

We could recruit a good key back and a couple of good small forwards and we still aren't top 4. The cancer is in the middle of the ground. Nothing changes until we fix that.

Lord and Moir should have played and should be considered best 22 next season, even when their form drops. We really need to modernise in the middle.

It's up to Austin and Co now to get the results we want.

 

[jj1978]

It was just limited thinking. Kennedy is better than Durdin and Mots. He is also flexible. Tougher, stronger and way more skilled.

Dumb decision. One of many.

I cam't remember exactly, but when we were flying last year, we were unbeatable at stoppage. I remember starting with First Crack, we were talked up as the toughest team around. Then some stats came up about our perceived weakness in another area...the running quarter back type thing other teams were doing...they said we need to get better at that.

So, like the time worn adage about the man his son and their donkey, we started tweaking to please others. Over summer we somehow lost our biggest advantage.

My advice Carlton
Form a gameplan that suits us best. Make bringing out the best in each and every player our highest priority.

Get talented line coaches from recent winning teams with a great culture.
Bring on the kids. Let go of Fantasia, Durds and a bunch of injury prone. I'd include Guv in that much as I love him.

Keep it simple and give talented players room to play with flair and brilliance. This will help our team become exciting and enthusiastic.
We have to get some pace in! We are playing old fashioned footy.

Get some innovation! That will not come from Voss and Hansen.

Our coaching group is not creative. Reactive yes. Creative no.

 

[goreds]

Gee you would love to have your time and pick the side again.

We could recruit a good key back and a couple of good small forwards and we still aren't top 4. The cancer is in the middle of the ground. Nothing changes until we fix that.

Lord and Moir should have played and should be considered best 22 next season, even when their form drops. We really need to modernise in the middle.

It's up to Austin and Co now to get the results we want.

Agree.

Cripps, Hewett, Acres and TDK the only certain starting mids.

Moir a lock as well.

 

[bourbons]

Seriously though this list is close to done I reckon, in terms of truly contending. They'll probably continue to hang around the bottom end of the 8 over the next few years, just on talent. Make some finals and miss some, but we don't have the players or the system to go much further than that. We're not just a few tweaks away - at a minimum we need a solid 2nd KPD, an actual small/crumbing forward or 2 and probably 3 mids with genuine pace and foot skill. Those sorts of players don't grow on trees, we'd be lucky to snag even 1 or 2 whilst still in our window.

But its shuffling deck chairs on the titanic anyway, the group just isn't up to it mentally and the coaches don't look up to shifting the gameplan. I'd argue hoping the midfield dominate clearances and Charlie and Harry clunk contested marks isn't actually a gameplan in the first place, looks great when it happens but its not in any way sustainable. 3 years of sample now, they just can't do it (and shouldn't be expected to) continually over a 24 round season.

Not quite burn it all down and start again time yet, but make no mistake its getting there

An absolutely charmed run with injury where no stars go down and 90% of the rest of the list is available all through the season the only thing I can see getting us any further in '25, grim stuff.

 

[bourbons]

Assistant coaches are required to be informed by August 1st if they're to be sacked or retained.

Unless we've kept it very under the radar we'll have the same group again next year.

All assistant coaches are contracted for next year I heard on the radio. Doesn't look like being any movement there.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

( ^ re Finals/ contending next year):

Strongly agree with comments above. Without major changes:

• key players brought in (pace in midfield*, dangerous forwards, KPD etc)
• Game Plan significant tweaks
• selection based on demonstrated on field performance, esp. ‘relentless pressure brought’ to Oppo
• also suggest we need some fresh tactical coaching input

… think (without the above changes) we are off the pace of modern game and on track to finish around 10-12. The old ‘talented spine’ isn’t enough the ways it’s being played now

- Hawks have gone past us, Cats gone past us, both using youthful energy, pace, good disposal. Sydney teams x2 obviously ahead of us on speed and ball use.
- Freo likely to go past us with off season additions, Dogs, Pies and even * and north could/should aswell. Plus there’s always potential bolter like Suns…. Grim prospects if we don’t change…

The key will be whether the club key decision makers can be brutal in self analysis and recognise weaknesses/needs as above, and take aggressive action this off season.

*Mid- someone fast inside outside like Butters.. what would it take?.. do we have will wherewithal to take action like this..?

It’s brutal but unfortunately reality imo as well. We must identify it and be active

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Fathers have been leaving their day old babies for centuries to get back to work. Having a day old baby doesnt excuse a terrible performance from him.

That's bloody harsh. 1 and a half quarters, during which he played half back, half forward and ruck.

He still had 5 disposals at 80% efficiency, 3 contested possessions and a tackle and this was during the worst period of the game from a team perspective.

 

[jj1978]

All assistant coaches are contracted for next year I heard on the radio. Doesn't look like being any movement there.

So let’s see.. how about getting the coach who was a forward coaching the forwards because our forward line is non cohesive and the backline he’s in charge of is just as bad so perhaps he can’t do much worse swapping lines.

We have Ebert in development.. he was a pretty decent mid… maybe he can go focus some time there. Even Voss doesn’t have to be a tactical genius to help focus on coaching the midfield, not like he’s developing the tactics etc.

 

[gbatman]

What GWS did in that game became the blueprint for playing Carlton...

It just got easier for opposition(inferior) teams when our injuries started to mount.

And Sydney earlier. Get the ball out wide into space, make it a running game. Tackle like hell if the ball is held in close.

We should have been figured out earlier really.

Thing is, game has changed in the last few seasons. Rolling maul out. Running, direct, fast paced in. Collingwood were the first to adjust to it. Others are following. Teams are adjusting at different rates. Teams adjust during the season and that is what many have done. As this has happened those teams go past us. There are teams that aren't that good that have adjusted to a speed based game that we just can't touch.

We have had 3 years to make changes and have done nothing. We are too slow to react. The direction from the coach to the recruiting staff has killed us. We should have been trading out slow blokes and going hard at faster more mobile blokes. Not bringing in guys like Hewett and Cerra who aren't the solution. Yes they have been good but not what we have needed. Hewett wasn't wanted by the best team in the game, because they were on a path towards adjusting their list towards modern football. Yeah he cost us nothing, it was a reasonable get but others had to come in too.

It's like a game of chasey in the school ground. The quick kids are dominating the big slow kids. We are the big slow kids. You beat us by getting in a situation where you run away from us.

Voss obsession with contested ball and big bodies is a chain around our necks. He hasn't been the right coach so far. That used to get you sacked here. It's now a matter of whether he is the right coach currently and going forward. His direction to the list management team and his team selection needs to be about fast players who tackle hard.

 

[Earls Smother]

I don't know the answer. Like everyone else I can only speculate

Issue I have is we lost 8 of last 10 games. Only beat North & WCE and had the second worst record in the AFL behind Richmond over last 10 rounds

Then we lose a final by being down 60-0 in first half with game on the line

In anyones language that is a disaster and what is worse is the way we have fallen away so quickly and so badly

Questions need to be asked and changes need to be made otherwise we waste this opportunity

Like you, I don't know. I'm hoping internally the club have at least reasonable suspicions, otherwise we are in trouble.

The logical explanation (and the one I want to believe) is that we went too hard too early from a training/fitness perspective. Our early draw was much tougher on paper, but we handled it really well. The planning would have been based around an easier finish to the season. The potential issues around overcooking us early I see as follows:

Less break than what were used to, due to playing in 3 finals and having to be ready for round zero (Labor Day weekend which is very early start).

Tough game at the Gabba to begin with. We finished all over them, which suggests we were very fit.

The stupid early bye where we would have trained abnormally for that time of year.

Continually coming up against sides that were currently sitting in the top 4, which means they were playing very good football at the time. BUT we handled them, except for Swans in Sydney.

Got to the bye in good shape and then beat Geelong (best win) and Richmond. We are looking really good and there is every expectation we will be playing home finals from an advantageous ladder position.

Things go pear-shaped against the Giants. The only obvious issue is Charlie's ankle. The word is that quite a few are very sore but managing to get out there.

So WTF happened? Did too many just hit the physical wall at the same time and we didn't have (or utilise) decent reinforcements? Is a fit Charlie that important to us that we can't do without him at, or near, his best?

Russell "resigns" which I don't think sent a very good message for what was to come. It certainly looked like we had accepted that we were cooked. The Hawthorn game then drove a further nail into that coffin, with everything going wrong to add further salt to our cooking. Youngsters show a bit in the last 2 rounds, but they were not going to win us big finals.

We just couldn't find anything to get us going leading up to the EF. We had mentally put the cue in the rack IMO. Others see that differently, but the reality is, we are really not just dissecting a one game problem here.

I don't know if the above is correct, but I hope it is, because it is relatively easy to fix.

 

[Beyond Blue]

What GWS did in that game became the blueprint for playing Carlton...

It just got easier for opposition(inferior) teams when our injuries started to mount.

We lost to a Bulldogs team without Naughton, Treloar and Jones so I don’t think everything can be pinned on injuries.

Selections started to go awry around about this time too. In the bulldogs game we got so many things wrong:
- Hewett not selected at all and MK the sub leaving an under done Cerra to play significant midfield minutes against one of the best midfields in the comp.
- two ruckman against English who isn’t a crash and bash and a fast team generally was a mistake. If TDK was under an injury cloud after the GWS game then he shouldn’t have played and Pitto should have gone alone against English.
- rushed Marchbank back in after very limited reserves footy when the right choice to replace Gov was probably Young.
- Charlie was banged up after the GWS, so maybe he could’ve been rested this game and Kemp given a trial up forward against the dogs who not had 2 tall forwards for the game.

Of course it’s not all on Voss and injuries played a part (Williams did his hammy mid game) as did poor play generally (Boyd was terrible this game and Charlie kicked 3.7). So as always a combination of factors led to our demise, but it was disappointing that the team selection element seemed self inflicted.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Gee you would love to have your time and pick the side again.

We could recruit a good key back and a couple of good small forwards and we still aren't top 4. The cancer is in the middle of the ground. Nothing changes until we fix that.

Lord and Moir should have played and should be considered best 22 next season, even when their form drops. We really need to modernise in the middle.

It's up to Austin and Co now to get the results we want.

1. Pitto

Not up to being a first ruck. I think we all must agree on that now (and beyond useless around the ground). Not starting with TDK (given he was picked) a massive blunder (up there with not picking Cinc to stop Zorko)

2. Sam Walsh

Must be carrying an injury - he was the best player in the finals in 2023, 28 odd largely irrelevant possession on Saturday.

3. Bam Bam Kennedy

Who knows - was dumped on the sub bench early in the game...wtf?

4. George H.

Take a bow.

5. Crippa

Tried to do it all himself again.... we're killing him.

6. Cerra

Should not have played - that's on the MC.

7. Sam Doc

See Cerra.

 

[goreds]

And Sydney earlier. Get the ball out wide into space, make it a running game. Tackle like hell if the ball is held in close.

We should have been figured out earlier really.

Thing is, game has changed in the last few seasons. Rolling maul out. Running, direct, fast paced in. Collingwood were the first to adjust to it. Others are following. Teams are adjusting at different rates. Teams adjust during the season and that is what many have done. As this has happened those teams go past us. There are teams that aren't that good that have adjusted to a speed based game that we just can't touch.

We have had 3 years to make changes and have done nothing. We are too slow to react. The direction from the coach to the recruiting staff has killed us. We should have been trading out slow blokes and going hard at faster more mobile blokes. Not bringing in guys like Hewett and Cerra who aren't the solution. Yes they have been good but not what we have needed. Hewett wasn't wanted by the best team in the game, because they were on a path towards adjusting their list towards modern football. Yeah he cost us nothing, it was a reasonable get but others had to come in too.

It's like a game of chasey in the school ground. The quick kids are dominating the big slow kids. We are the big slow kids. You beat us by getting in a situation where you run away from us.

Voss obsession with contested ball and big bodies is a chain around our necks. He hasn't been the right coach so far. That used to get you sacked here. It's now a matter of whether he is the right coach currently and going forward. His direction to the list management team and his team selection needs to be about fast players who tackle hard.

The contested game wins finals but we are too banged up. You could have Jesus Christ as our head of performance, and we would still have just as many injuries. The high impact contested game is not sustainable for 24 rounds plus finals.

No issue with Hewett and Cerra but Cerra needs to get super fit, and Hewett needs to play, sorry to say I would trade out Kennedy as he has some value. Tough calls need to be made now! Ollie doesn't impact the game for me either, is he good overhead? Is he a good kick? Is he strong in the contest? Is he quick? Does he kick goals? NO to all of those...
Can he run all day? YES, but that's just not enough...

Weiters needs to become the loose player in defense, I don't care how we do it, but it needs to happen. He's just to smart and such a great field kick to be stuck in the goal square (see Melbourne, Geelong, Collingwood).

 

[myblueroan]

Seriously though this list is close to done I reckon, in terms of truly contending. They'll probably continue to hang around the bottom end of the 8 over the next few years, just on talent. Make some finals and miss some, but we don't have the players or the system to go much further than that. We're not just a few tweaks away - at a minimum we need a solid 2nd KPD, an actual small/crumbing forward or 2 and probably 3 mids with genuine pace and foot skill. Those sorts of players don't grow on trees, we'd be lucky to snag even 1 or 2 whilst still in our window.

But its shuffling deck chairs on the titanic anyway, the group just isn't up to it mentally and the coaches don't look up to shifting the gameplan. I'd argue hoping the midfield dominate clearances and Charlie and Harry clunk contested marks isn't actually a gameplan in the first place, looks great when it happens but its not in any way sustainable. 3 years of sample now, they just can't do it (and shouldn't be expected to) continually over a 24 round season.

Not quite burn it all down and start again time yet, but make no mistake its getting there

An absolutely charmed run with injury where no stars go down and 90% of the rest of the list is available all through the season the only thing I can see getting us any further in '25, grim stuff.

I don't share this view.
I'm already hopeful and optimistic for 2025.

 

[Soapy V]

Like you, I don't know. I'm hoping internally the club have at least reasonable suspicions, otherwise we are in trouble.

The logical explanation (and the one I want to believe) is that we went too hard too early from a training/fitness perspective. Our early draw was much tougher on paper, but we handled it really well. The planning would have been based around an easier finish to the season. The potential issues around overcooking us early I see as follows:

Less break than what were used to, due to playing in 3 finals and having to be ready for round zero (Labor Day weekend which is very early start).

Tough game at the Gabba to begin with. We finished all over them, which suggests we were very fit.

The stupid early bye where we would have trained abnormally for that time of year.

Continually coming up against sides that were currently sitting in the top 4, which means they were playing very good football at the time. BUT we handled them, except for Swans in Sydney.

Got to the bye in good shape and then beat Geelong (best win) and Richmond. We are looking really good and there is every expectation we will be playing home finals from an advantageous ladder position.

Things go pear-shaped against the Giants. The only obvious issue is Charlie's ankle. The word is that quite a few are very sore but managing to get out there.

So WTF happened? Did too many just hit the physical wall at the same time and we didn't have (or utilise) decent reinforcements? Is a fit Charlie that important to us that we can't do without him at, or near, his best?

Russell "resigns" which I don't think sent a very good message for what was to come. It certainly looked like we had accepted that we were cooked. The Hawthorn game then drove a further nail into that coffin, with everything going wrong to add further salt to our cooking. Youngsters show a bit in the last 2 rounds, but they were not going to win us big finals.

We just couldn't find anything to get us going leading up to the EF. We had mentally put the cue in the rack IMO. Others see that differently, but the reality is, we are really not just dissecting a one game problem here.

I don't know if the above is correct, but I hope it is, because it is relatively easy to fix.

Good points and you could well be right

I think it is part what you have mentioned but I really believe our game style is archaic and predictable. It takes the flair and fun out of players and other sides pick us off so easily.

It started in Round One and we never got going. Our best football has been when our stars stood up and dominated. How many 4 quarter games have we played?

I just don't think we get close to the best out of our players and they are tired of butting heads against the wall.

A happy, cohesive or focussed side does NOT fall away the way we have no matter how many injuries you have.

 

[HaydossJ]

Good points and you could well be right

I think it is part what you have mentioned but I really believe our game style is archaic and predictable. It takes the flair and fun out of players and other sides pick us off so easily.

It started in Round One and we never got going. Our best football has been when our stars stood up and dominated. How many 4 quarter games have we played?

I just don't think we get close to the best out of pur players and they are tired of butting heads against the wall.

A happy, cohesive or focussed side does NOT fall away the way we have no matter how many injuries you have.

Did you hold this same belief when we were sitting 2nd on the ladder?