List Mgmt. 2024 Father Son watch MKIII. Operation Ashcroft jnr. Featuring various academy boys.

[Jivlain]

 

[Nathan Barley]

We've also got Reville and Arnold onto AFL lists by persisting with them in the VFL

Fletcher has been fine not playing VFL as an under-ager

 

[Dalions]

There was also a bit of method to the madness for this weeks game as the VFL team has been pillaged of their talls by the AFL team.
So it makes sense that talls were brought in.

 

[briztoon]

We've also got Reville and Arnold onto AFL lists by persisting with them in the VFL

Fletcher has been fine not playing VFL as an under-ager

Fletcher played QAFL from the age of 16, being selected in the team by his dad coaching the team.

The moment Fletcher was drafted, his dad resigned from his QAFL coaching gig.

 

[briztoon]

Don't disagree with your overall point (I don't know enough about how the academies work to do so), but Billy Richardson also fits into this category of undrafted current 18 year olds with late birthdays.

Was going to make the same point. Richardson is a mid December birthday. Not yet 19. Believe he’s 4 weeks younger than Sam Marshall.

 

[Sproj]

You ever want to see a contrast of how the Lions and Suns prioritise player development through their academies, that game on the weekend is perfect.

The Lions played 19 year old Billy Richardson and 18 year old Tom Gillet. Both fresh off Allies campaigns and playing Senior QAFL footy for the 2nd year running.

The Lions team includes the likes of unlisted players like Abberley, Dunkley, McPherson, Manly, Derksen and Thomas - all mature age top ups, some of them parachuted in from interstate.

The Suns team, who defeated the Lions comfortably had Uwland, Murray, Addinsall and Patterson - all 16/17 year old 2025 draft prospects. Cooper Collins has also played VFL football this year and also a 17 year old.

They also had top ager 2024 draft prospects like Lombard (who played regularly as a bottom ager as well) and Beikoff-Smart and 2 x 18 year olds in Evans and Gray (but they are late birthdates and were 2023 undrafted)

As an example, Dan Annable who recently played as a bottom ager for the Allies and would have been close to AA selection didn't play football at all on the weekend as his club team had a bye. Same goes for Raph Geesu. Also not playing due to a bye are the likes of Jake Fazldeen who had a poor academy campaign, but is a serious talent.

The Lions academy is being left for dead by the Suns in their development of the top of the line talent. Seem moren focused on winning academy games with a team that is 30% over agers.

It does potentially help the kids learn how valuable it is to get a shot by playing with guys not quite good enough.

 

[Elixuh]

You ever want to see a contrast of how the Lions and Suns prioritise player development through their academies, that game on the weekend is perfect.

The Lions played 19 year old Billy Richardson and 18 year old Tom Gillet. Both fresh off Allies campaigns and playing Senior QAFL footy for the 2nd year running.

The Lions team includes the likes of unlisted players like Abberley, Dunkley, McPherson, Manly, Derksen and Thomas - all mature age top ups, some of them parachuted in from interstate.

The Suns team, who defeated the Lions comfortably had Uwland, Murray, Addinsall and Patterson - all 16/17 year old 2025 draft prospects. Cooper Collins has also played VFL football this year and also a 17 year old.

They also had top ager 2024 draft prospects like Lombard (who played regularly as a bottom ager as well) and Beikoff-Smart and 2 x 18 year olds in Evans and Gray (but they are late birthdates and were 2023 undrafted)

As an example, Dan Annable who recently played as a bottom ager for the Allies and would have been close to AA selection didn't play football at all on the weekend as his club team had a bye. Same goes for Raph Geesu. Also not playing due to a bye are the likes of Jake Fazldeen who had a poor academy campaign, but is a serious talent.

The Lions academy is being left for dead by the Suns in their development of the top of the line talent. Seem moren focused on winning academy games with a team that is 30% over agers.

Meh I think our approach and strategy has proved beneficial to overall team success. Part of it is retention and culture (eg getting brothers of senior players to come up here to play), part of it is for our listed guys player development, part of it is finding guys like Reville.

I suspect that if GC was in our position they’d be taking a different approach.

 

[Tom14]

You ever want to see a contrast of how the Lions and Suns prioritise player development through their academies, that game on the weekend is perfect.

The Lions played 19 year old Billy Richardson and 18 year old Tom Gillet. Both fresh off Allies campaigns and playing Senior QAFL footy for the 2nd year running.

The Lions team includes the likes of unlisted players like Abberley, Dunkley, McPherson, Manly, Derksen and Thomas - all mature age top ups, some of them parachuted in from interstate.

The Suns team, who defeated the Lions comfortably had Uwland, Murray, Addinsall and Patterson - all 16/17 year old 2025 draft prospects. Cooper Collins has also played VFL football this year and also a 17 year old.

They also had top ager 2024 draft prospects like Lombard (who played regularly as a bottom ager as well) and Beikoff-Smart and 2 x 18 year olds in Evans and Gray (but they are late birthdates and were 2023 undrafted)

As an example, Dan Annable who recently played as a bottom ager for the Allies and would have been close to AA selection didn't play football at all on the weekend as his club team had a bye. Same goes for Raph Geesu. Also not playing due to a bye are the likes of Jake Fazldeen who had a poor academy campaign, but is a serious talent.

The Lions academy is being left for dead by the Suns in their development of the top of the line talent. Seem moren focused on winning academy games with a team that is 30% over agers.

I'll start paying attention to Gold Coast's player development and worrying about it when they ditch the perennial loser stink they have at the senior level.

Obviously a heap of talent in their academy, good for them.

 

[MSB ROYS]

The Lions academy is being left for dead by the Suns in their development of the top of the line talent. Seem moren focused on winning academy games with a team that is 30% over agers.

It does seems like the GC Academy is generally outperforming the Lions. However, the 'development' of better player is nearly always superior than less talented players, albeit there are some rare late bloomers.

Success is also dependant upon the stakeholder's ultimate objectives. For the Lions, it's about getting players onto their list (0-2 per year), while for the AFL it's getting players onto the Lions list with extra players being available to other clubs. For the QAFL and other local stakeholders, it's about getting players to play Australian rules and strengthening the local competition. To me, the academies need to strike a balance between these stakeholders but ultimately as a Lions supporter I really only care about those who make it on the an AFL list or play for the Lions VFL team.

 

[briztoon]

Meh I think our approach and strategy has proved beneficial to overall team success. Part of it is retention and culture (eg getting brothers of senior players to come up here to play), part of it is for our listed guys player development, part of it is finding guys like Reville.

I suspect that if GC was in our position they’d be taking a different approach.

They won the VFL last year and made the final the year before (I think).

They only play their top kids, who are probably better than 90% of the top ups running around in the VFL.

 

[Elixuh]

They won the VFL last year and made the final the year before (I think).

They only play their top kids, who are probably better than 90% of the top ups running around in the VFL.

Which is fine for them but irrelevant to my points.

 

[M Malice]

We have quite a few players currently on our list who spent time developing in our Academy in Eric Hipwood

30

Eric Hipwood

Age

27

Ht

203cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.1

2star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.4

5star

, Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

, Keidean Coleman, Jack Payne, Shadeau Brain, Bruce Reville, Carter Michael.

There are also a few currently on other AFL lists, off the top of my head Tom Fullarton, Noah Cumberland, Samson Ryan, Ben Keays

2

Ben Keays

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.1

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.9

5star

G

0.4

3star

D

13.7

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.7

4star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

, Patrick Snell, Mabior Chol

18

Mabior Chol

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

.. I am sure there are a few more I can not recall.

Reasonably highly rated Sam Marshall, Daniel Annable and Raphael Geesu to come.
_________________________________

Not too bad, in fact pretty darn good record from my uneducated assessment.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Which is fine for them but irrelevant to my points.

You've been briztooned

 

[briztoon]

Which is fine for them but irrelevant to my points.

In regards to your last point, that they would be doing things different if they were in the same position as us, I don’t believe so.

They’re playing kids who are better than most top ups.

This also helps the development of their listed players, as they over all quality through the team is higher.

And it helps the development of their top academy kids, as they’re playing at a higher level, training with the senior team, learning the teams systems, which all helps their individual development.

 

[Elixuh]

In regards to your last point, that they would be doing things different if they were in the same position as us, I don’t believe so.

They’re playing kids who are better than most top ups.

This also helps the development of their listed players, as they over all quality through the team is higher.

And it helps the development of their top academy kids, as they’re playing at a higher level, training with the senior team, learning the teams systems, which all helps their individual development.

Can you do a list academy graduates drafted to the lions and suns since 2010 (so don’t include academy players drafted to other clubs)?

 

[Perrip]

Latest AFL.com.au article on the draft says recruiters don't reckon a F/S [Levi] will be chosen as the #1 Pick, but he will be up there in the top few players.

Josh Smillie, Finn O'Sullivan, Jagga Smith, Harvey Langford, Sid Draper, Murphy Reid, Luke Trainor, Levi Ashcroft and Sam Lalor are all in the group put forward by scouts as being contenders for perhaps the widest ever race for the top pick.
...
Ashcroft is as credentialed as any other player in the pool across his junior career but a father-son prospect has never been bid on at No.1 and recruiters don't think that will happen this year either.

 

[KissKiss]

That's probably a massive win for us if he goes closer to 5 than 1

 

[Miller1971]

We've also got Reville and Arnold onto AFL lists by persisting with them in the VFL

Fletcher has been fine not playing VFL as an under-ager

Fletcher would have played VFL, but post Allies he was injured for his entire top age campaign

 

[Nathan Barley]

Fletcher would have played VFL, but post Allies he was injured for his entire top age campaign

Yep and he played in a grand final in his first season so I don't think missing out on VFL cost him too much in his development

 

[OnLooker1932]

Don't disagree with your overall point (I don't know enough about how the academies work to do so), but Billy Richardson also fits into this category of undrafted current 18 year olds with late birthdays.

I'm not questioning the selection of Richardson, I think there should be more of him playing and some younger ones too

We've also got Reville and Arnold onto AFL lists by persisting with them in the VFL

Yep, both young QLDers who were persisted with Arnold is Suns Academy though. Reville you'd probably have to thank his QAFL club more than the VFL program.

We have quite a few players currently on our list who spent time developing in our Academy in Eric Hipwood, Harris Andrews, Keidean Coleman, Jack Payne, Shadeau Brain, Bruce Reville, Carter Michael.

There are also a few currently on other AFL lists, off the top of my head Tom Fullarton, Noah Cumberland, Samson Ryan, Ben Keays, Patrick Snell, Mabior Chol.. I am sure there are a few more I can not recall.

Reasonably highly rated Sam Marshall, Daniel Annable and Raphael Geesu to come.
_________________________________

Not too bad, in fact pretty darn good record from my uneducated assessment.

Marshall has been academy linked but never really in it, has been at boarding school in Mebourne since 2021.


Its debateable on a few of the above names how much you can credit the academy, but I won't go down that rabbit hole!

 

[Nathan Barley]

I'm not questioning the selection of Richardson, I think there should be more of him playing and some younger ones too



Yep, both young QLDers who were persisted with Arnold is Suns Academy though. Reville you'd probably have to thank his QAFL club more than the VFL program.




Marshall has been academy linked but never really in it, has been at boarding school in Mebourne since 2021.


Its debateable on a few of the above names how much you can credit the academy, but I won't go down that rabbit hole!

And I'm sure all the Suns gun recruits are solely credited to the academy. Not like any of them moved to Queensland at 9 with an aussie rules background and a family that followed Aussie rules

 

[MSB ROYS]

And I'm sure all the Suns gun recruits are solely credited to the academy. Not like any of them moved to Queensland at 9 with an aussie rules background and a family that followed Aussie rules

The Browns?

 

[Nathan Barley]

The Browns?

Jed Walter

 

[briztoon]

And I'm sure all the Suns gun recruits are solely credited to the academy. Not like any of them moved to Queensland at 9 with an aussie rules background and a family that followed Aussie rules

That’s literally almost every kid that’s made it to AFL level through our academy, with the exception of Ballenden and Payne last time I looked.

Andrews, Hipwood, Keys all from Vic. Fletcher from an AFL family. Coleman from the NT but from an AFL family.

 

[Nathan Barley]

That’s literally almost every kid that’s made it to AFL level through our academy, with the exception of Ballenden and Payne last time I looked.

Andrews, Hipwood, Keys all from Vic. Fletcher from an AFL family. Coleman from the NT but from an AFL family.

Yep that's my point

 

[Crusha]

Another of our "allies" Academy guys from last weekend:

Ryan Gilder #23 Sherwood Magpies - here's one kid who we wouldn't need to work on his physicality




(Could he become our "Maynard" ...... slightly more likeable version though)