Discussion 2024 General AFL Discussion

[CursingFijian]

Seeeee AFL world, we got it right!

You know if Petracca leaves Melbourne the byline will be Rejected Saint Jumps Ship.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Seeeee AFL world, we got it right!

Can anyone open this article?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As far as AA goes, the forward spots tend to go to mids, but Jack Higgins has been very good but under the radar.

 

[Mat Mann]

Can anyone open this article?

Inside story: Why the Saints didn’t draft Christian Petracca with the No.1 pick in 2014​

St Kilda knocked back a huge trade with GWS to keep pick 1 in the 2014 draft with an eye on explosive midfielder Christian Petracca. But by draft day the Saints had changed their mind. What happened?
Sam Landsberger

August 31, 2020 - 8:40AM
https://archive.vn/NGAet#share-tools
Christian Petracca is having a breakout year for the Demons. Picture: Michael Klein
If the 2014 draft was held straight after the season St Kilda would’ve used its No.1 pick on Christian Petracca.
The explosive matchwinner topped the Saints’ talent board for most of the season, with their rankings taking shape from July.
In the trade period they knocked back Greater Western Sydney’s offer of picks four and seven for No.1, with Petracca in pole position.
And if coach Brett Ratten could cherry-pick a rival star to help transform his team from likely finalist to premiership threat, there wouldn’t be many players in front of Petracca.
Petracca is the dynamic bull who puts bums on seats, and both his career trajectory and playing style are starting to fit Dustin Martin’s mould.
So with the goalposts removed and cricket pitches uncovered, why did the Saints swing towards Paddy McCartin?
The consensus has long been that the Saints were spooked by the inflated price of key forwards.
In the space of 12 months Sydney signed Lance Franklin on a nine-year deal worth $10 million and Western Bulldogs poached reigning No.1 pick Tom Boyd on a seven-year deal worth close to $7 million.

Most clubs ranked Christian Petracca and Angus Brayshaw as the best prospects in 2014. But St Kilda crowned Paddy McCartin the No. 1 pick.
“If we go for the best player and we think Petracca is in front, we’re going to have to pay a million plus to get the forward we need,” former coach Alan Richardson said before the draft.
“The market is saying that. So let’s get one in now and get him to fall in love with our footy club.”
Chief executive Matt Finnis played devil’s advocate, arguing that if Petracca immediately improved the Saints then perhaps they could buy a full-forward for cheaper as a destination club.
But there was another off-field factor contributing to the bold draft call.
In 2014 the Saints hired former AFL Players’ Association wellbeing services manager Matti Clements.
The AFL had recently banned clubs from issuing written psychology tests, however this was loosely policed and many continued to do so.
But it was not a breach of the rule to conduct verbal tests, which Clements did for the Saints.
McCartin passed in flying colours. Petracca didn’t.
“(McCartin’s) personality and the way his teammates talk about him reminds me a lot of Luke Hodge,” Richardson said.
“He’s probably not as blunt as Luke, but he comes across to me as someone who’s honest in what he says and does.”


Red flags emerged on Petracca.
Former Saints list manager Ameet Bains and recruiter Tony Elshaug started to question whether Petracca would fit their environment.
Why did the psych test reveal an eagerness for Petracca to promote himself ahead of teammates? Were there selfish traits?
Did his antics at the 3km time-trial – ensuring everybody knew he was sore – highlight immaturity? A lack of mental strength?
How come he completed extra training in isolation instead of with teammates?
Petracca seemed to enjoy attention. Would his personality blend in at St Kilda?
“We take the view that the character assessment is critical,” Bains said at the time.
“And with pick one you go to deeper lengths in terms of the people you speak to, in terms of ensuring cross references as you see it, psychologist’s reports, personality reports, interviews, speaking to whoever you think might be relevant.”
But unlike data from physical testing, psychology results are subjective.
In 2015 an elite prospect passed at the club which selected him and failed at a club from his home state.
Same player, different result.

The AFL was also becoming concerned at the coaching going on before the written tests it was conducting.
A sameness emerged in the results because either parents or junior clubs were tutoring prospects on how to answer questions.
The question for St Kilda is were Petracca’s answers a legitimate red flag based on expert opinion or merely an amber light?
Other clubs agree there was a mental question mark, and – under Elshaug and Bains – you couldn’t accuse the Saints of not doing their homework.
They worked themselves to the knuckle that draft and, importantly, the premiership model at the time included a power forward.
Elshaug warned that without a quality goalkicker their vision of returning to finals in 2018 would blow out to 2025.
Did the Saints, perhaps subconsciously, sway towards filling a need instead of taking the best player?
And how much weighting should be given to a psych test?
That should hinge on how hard the talent is to split, although Melbourne probably wishes it placed a greater emphasis when assessing Jimmy Toumpas in 2012.
For Petracca there were also plenty of ticks.

Petracca has blossomed into one of the AFL’s best players this year, while McCartin has been delisted.
He had the drive to take on employment as a barista at the MCG for the life experience, while the definition in his leg muscles pointed to elite training standards.
It has taken Petracca six years to show his AFL potential, albeit with 2015 lost to a knee reconstruction, but he is now the second favourite for the Brownlow Medal.
Since making his debut Petracca has played 97 out of a possible 98 games. How is that for mental resilience?
The 2014 psych test was completed as an aspirational teenager. What would his results show now, as a more balanced 24-year-old?
The McCartin story is a sad one. An unquestionable talent who was cut down by endless concussions and has now been delisted.
But some of McCartin’s St Kilda teammates believe alarm bells were ringing before those head knocks interfered.
Did McCartin apply himself in a similar manner to Nick Riewoldt when he was drafted at No. 1 pick in 2000?
Was McCartin strict on his diet and diabetes management? Or was he too lackadaisical in football and in life?
In 2014 some at the Saints were privately unsure whether McCartin’s junior dominance would transfer to senior football.

St Kilda teammates were privately concerned about McCartin’s habits before his career became plagued by concussions.
He was a man-child with a distinct physical advantage. Would that carry through when he was playing against men 10 years older than him?
Tony Lockett and Shane Mumford were able to bully AFL opponents just as they did junior opponents.
But ardent Port Adelaide supporters will remember Northern Knights product Ryan Willits as an early draft pick who couldn’t transfer that advantage.
McCartin was more bulk than prowess, whereas Max King never had that concern because he is athletic.
It is why King, before his knee injury, was widely viewed as the likely No. 1 pick in a strong draft and McCartin wasn’t.

If the Saints settled on Petracca then Melbourne was expected to pass on McCartin at the next two picks, taking Angus Brayshaw and Jake Lever instead.
One recruiter recalled his rankings this week – Isaac Heeney (Sydney academy), Darcy Moore (Collingwood father-son), Petracca, Angus Brayshaw and then McCartin at No.5.
“We didn’t have Paddy anywhere near that high (No.1),” another club said.
“If we had pick one we would’ve been choosing between Christian and Brayshaw. If it was an open draft then (Isaac) Heeney and (Darcy) Moore would’ve been No.1 and 2.”

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Awesome win against a poor Suns team on the road. I love these Saints girls, think they have real character. I'd like to see a bit more integration with our men's team, and especially for media stuff.

Obviously it's just getting started and it's a pretty different situation starting from scratch. We won't see anything like the culture and crowds and professionalism that the men's team have for a long while, but they are attacking it with spirit and making the best of it.

I'll be watching when I can, hope they go on with it!

Go Saints!

Suns girls made Finals last year ... did they not?

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Interesting to see what they do next year with regards to games on Thursday nights. Personally I like it and would hope it's all the way through the season. You'd think it gives them more flexibility, as well as extending the interest in a particular round.

Thoughts on Thursday games?

 

[Plugger35]

Interesting to see what they do next year with regards to games on Thursday nights. Personally I like it and would hope it's all the way through the season. You'd think it gives them more flexibility, as well as extending the interest in a particular round.

Thoughts on Thursday games?

I like Thursday night games too, it spreads the games over 4 days instead of 3 with less games being played at the same time.

 

[Remboy]

I like Thursday night games too, it spreads the games over 4 days instead of 3 with less games being played at the same time.

I agree. Only downside is that it creates the potential for 5 day breaks if you play the previous Saturday.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

And if you lose ... its a looooooong weekend

 

[Diehard Saint]

Thank you Mat Mann
Interesting read. Especially about the psych testing.
No one would’ve known that Paddy would untimately succumb to his injuries but taking a diabetic at pick one - obviously on no one else’s list as number 1 was a huge risk.

For all the flags about Petracca, it’s only now, with his apparent mistreatment by the Demons that issues have come to the fore.

Basically we screwed up, imo only.

 

[austinnn]

Glad we avoided all those demanding selfish guns who could have won us a cup or two and invested heavily in humble reasonable players who would rather be mates with everyone and not rock the boat.

 

[Sully111]

Thank you Mat Mann
Interesting read. Especially about the psych testing.
No one would’ve known that Paddy would untimately succumb to his injuries but taking a diabetic at pick one - obviously on no one else’s list as number 1 was a huge risk.

For all the flags about Petracca, it’s only now, with his apparent mistreatment by the Demons that issues have come to the fore.

Basically we screwed up, imo only.

It's not just your opinion that we screwed up. It's an undeniable fact.

All I got from that article was how incredibly stupid we were.

 

[austinnn]

Glad we avoided all those demanding selfish guns who could have won us a cup or two and invested heavily in humble reasonable players who would rather be mates with everyone and not rock the boat.

Further to that, check out this annoying big head Tom USA AOK Green

Opinionated, assured, cool: Is the AFL ready for a Gen Z revolution?

Tom Green on speaking his mind, why he won’t rule out a Tassie move and becoming the next GWS captain

www.afl.com.au

Thank God he plays for a rival team. Us Saints can't be doing with any of that American rubbish, just good old old school quiet blokes to go fishing or join crossword clubs and play a little footy with mates hopefully win a few.

Seriously, bring on the Green Ginnivan types

 

[gringo2011]

Further to that, check out this annoying big head Tom USA AOK Green

Opinionated, assured, cool: Is the AFL ready for a Gen Z revolution?

Tom Green on speaking his mind, why he won’t rule out a Tassie move and becoming the next GWS captain

www.afl.com.au

Thank God he plays for a rival team. Us Saints can't be doing with any of that American rubbish, just good old old school quiet blokes to go fishing or join crossword clubs and play a little footy with mates hopefully win a few.

Seriously, bring on the Green Ginnivan types

That's why I worry about having an old coach from the black boots and pulled up socks era. The future for the AFL is in making the brand exciting and fast paced. I really enjoy watching the Hawks and get caught up in their energy and ambition too. Lyon is years older than me and I'm old. I'm already at an age where I think that everyone under 30 is a moron.

I hope that the restraint and discipline isn't an off-putting environment for the youth coming through. We need to lock all our young talent up long term.

 

[StFly]

That's why I worry about having an old coach from the black boots and pulled up socks era. The future for the AFL is in making the brand exciting and fast paced. I really enjoy watching the Hawks and get caught up in their energy and ambition too. Lyon is years older than me and I'm old. I'm already at an age where I think that everyone under 30 is a moron.

I hope that the restraint and discipline isn't an off-putting environment for the youth coming through. We need to lock all our young talent up long term.

Things come back in vogue every now and then, it's not all new and fancy all the time.

And they're not a moron, they just aren't used to getting their hands dirty as it ruins their 47 phones. This is also why short term foundation planning builds a far stronger house for people to live in.

 

[austinnn]

That's why I worry about having an old coach from the black boots and pulled up socks era. The future for the AFL is in making the brand exciting and fast paced. I really enjoy watching the Hawks and get caught up in their energy and ambition too. Lyon is years older than me and I'm old. I'm already at an age where I think that everyone under 30 is a moron.

I hope that the restraint and discipline isn't an off-putting environment for the youth coming through. We need to lock all our young talent up long term.

Agreed. Plus our assistants were very much Lyon men, but hopefully they are clever enough to see that the future of sport is this type of stuff now, and we need to think outside the traditions of aussie rules - and even Australia itself - to reach younger audiences who've grown up watching YT and Netflix.

We want our young guys like Henry, Collard, Mitchi, Windy, Phillipou etc to feel they can express what they want.

I love the celebrations tbh, maybe it's my premier league influence but I enjoy all that stuff, even Dursmaa's schtick. Remember Milney getting into that towards the end, the chainsaw, that backwards dance thing?

Ginnivan's antics - awesome. A bit of showbiz is exactly what the stodgy old AFL need. Jack Higgins, Liam Henry, Anthony Caminiti and Matteas Phillipou probably our best celebrators right now, more of that please Saints!

 

[Premium]

Just looking at Greshams contract at the Bombers , it was for only 2 years.
By the looks of that he just wanted out - at least one thing about Lyon he sorts out the guys who are not going to give 100% , Billings the other.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Just looking at Greshams contract at the Bombers , it was for only 2 years.
By the looks of that he just wanted out - at least one thing about Lyon he sorts out the guys who are not going to give 100% , Billings the other.

A three year contract...

Jade Gresham - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pardon me]

Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

could be one of the most positive influential gets in living memory.
And to think when he played for north and had that set shot after the siren I despised him and his smug grin…

 

[Remboy]

Mason Wood could be one of the most positive influential gets in living memory.
And to think when he played for north and had that set shot after the siren I despised him and his smug grin…

I wonder if North are thinking we could do with someone like him right about now?

 

[Pardon me]

I wonder if North are thinking we could do with someone like him right about now?

Without question - unless he was around for the great reset? Then he would have been filled with the rest of their leaders…

 

[austinnn]

I wonder if North are thinking we could do with someone like him right about now?

Definitely not, how are they going to lose games and get more priority picks with Wood playing for them?

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

That's a cracking goal from Cameron

 

[jumperfan]

Hopefully Geelong keep up this goal kicking performance

 

[wannabewinner]

I hope Port wins the premiership this year. Just have nightmares about 2004 as this year so resembles 2003.