Discussion 2024 General AFL Discussion

[Silkie]

Went to the game, my first GF live. A bunch of Lions supporting mates had a spare membership and offered it to me on the condition that I barrack for them. They gave me a scarf and hat for the day and I played the part well. Watching their reactions and the other fans around us throughout the game was pretty magical. A few goosebumps inducing moments for sure. Had to keep my mouth shut and remind myself it's not about me when they started going on about '20 long years!' lol. Had a great night on the town, obviously pretty hollow for me but the energy and joy of my mates was contagious. Couldn't stop thinking about how great it's going to be when our time comes.

 

[Banger9798]

Went to the game, my first GF live. A bunch of Lions supporting mates had a spare membership and offered it to me on the condition that I barrack for them. They gave me a scarf and hat for the day and I played the part well. Watching their reactions and the other fans around us throughout the game was pretty magical. A few goosebumps inducing moments for sure. Had to keep my mouth shut and remind myself it's not about me when they started going on about '20 long years!' lol. Had a great night on the town, obviously pretty hollow for me but the energy and joy of my mates was contagious. Couldn't stop thinking about how great it's going to be when our time comes.

Had a very similar day yesterday watching at the Royal Derby with some Lions supporters.
It will be momentous when it happens.

 

[StCicatriz]

Got nothing to do with your opinion, it has to do with the facts of the redevelopment, the machinations of redevelopment both through tiers of govt, local and state, and the satisfaction of the AFL.
If you know anything about published financial year end papers do comparison of before and after financial positions concentrating on cash flow, and non current debt and assets.
Finnis was no messiah, that is a reach when someone has no argument. He did a very good job financially, a position caused by the footy first travesty who ousted Butters who had the finances stable.
They blew out the debt, then moved us to Seaford and consigned us to a period of financial bear insolvency. To be where we are now is actually very impressive.
As far as football goes, Finnis was ordinary, not helped by decisions like Billings, McCartin, Goddard, Dunstan, selecting Richardson as coach etc. Very ordinary.
However the financial and football needs to be separated. He stabilised the finances and the current regime is benefiting both that stability and now a decent football department, capable of long term success.

So there is no 'Come on man' about it. The financials stack up, they are in much better shape, the asset to debt ratio's would be infinitely better, and the cash flows are now manageable.
When it comes to finance, the books don't care about your feelings.

Edit: a construction company is vastly different to a membership organisation, both in operation and tax obligations. Furthermore a membership organisation that is beholden to a governing body. As someone who worked for a membership organisation for over 20 years as an accountant and being in the project team for numerous office developments in all Australian states and throughout Asia ( including communist regimes, talk about suffocating red tape), I can tell you, it is a lot of organisation, consultation, negotiation, and setback. Our CEO would not have had a clue what we did, he wanted results within budget. The President of the football club would have been the same, especially considering it was voluntary.
Finnis was put there by the AFL to do a job. He did that and supposition and opinion doesn't change the truth of the matter.

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I think someone running a construction company has more in common with leveraging stakeholders to complete a 100m rebuild and development than someone running a "membership organisation". As you put it they are vastly different. Hence why I think summers made finding a new home part of the strategy as it was something within reach.

Out of interest how much debt was paid down during finnis time. As I recall alot of the balance sheet was made up from holding the funds allocated for moorabbin. It'd be very interesting to see now that moorabbin has been completed how much debt actually was paid down. I'm guessing it's not earth shattering and majority of the debt is still there.

The revolving door of footy gms and list bosses didn't help. Over extending coaches contracts didn't help either. People on here seem to think he was responsible for the ratten fiasco which cost us $$$ and reputational value.

I don't disagree he stabilised the finances but it also came at a time when:
1) the afl rewrote the etihad deal
2) further equalisation measures were brought in delivering more $$$ to clubs
3) we came from such a low base
4) the Kim Duthie saga that brought sponsorship to a halt had ended.

It's pretty low hanging fruit. Like coming into North melbourne right now and getting on field improvement. Can't get much worse.

 

[Saints43]

Incorrect. The football dept happens because the AFL funds it.

The people we've employed don't join if the weights room is a converted condemned disco.

 

[Joffaboy]

I think someone running a construction company has more in common with leveraging stakeholders to complete a 100m rebuild and development than someone running a "membership organisation". As you put it they are vastly different. Hence why I think summers made finding a new home part of the strategy as it was something within reach.

Out of interest how much debt was paid down during finnis time. As I recall alot of the balance sheet was made up from holding the funds allocated for moorabbin. It'd be very interesting to see now that moorabbin has been completed how much debt actually was paid down. I'm guessing it's not earth shattering and majority of the debt is still there.

The revolving door of footy gms and list bosses didn't help. Over extending coaches contracts didn't help either. People on here seem to think he was responsible for the ratten fiasco which cost us $$$ and reputational value.

I don't disagree he stabilised the finances but it also came at a time when:
1) the afl rewrote the etihad deal
2) further equalisation measures were brought in delivering more $$$ to clubs
3) we came from such a low base
4) the Kim Duthie saga that brought sponsorship to a halt had ended.

It's pretty low hanging fruit. Like coming into North melbourne right now and getting on field improvement. Can't get much worse.

I won't bore you with accounting theory but a couple of relevant points.
The revamped Docklands deal is still terrible. All it has done had stopped the absolute hemorrhaging of money for home games resulting in nothing more than stabilisation. We made more money from Spuds match at the G than the whole of the rest of our home games. Let that sink in. The AFL owe us about 30 million for decades of gate receipts we lost which they MADE us take.
Your ignorance between a commercial organisation and a non profit is understandable but don't think Sommers had any dealings in the redevelopment except for getting his toe in the water for any construction deals, however due to conflict of interest he would have to recuse himself.
As for debt. You need to understand the difference between non current and operating debt. That's why I said look at the cash flow differences probably using old school ratio's to understand the position.
Debt is lower from memory but it is moot. It is the ability to service debt ( hence cash flow considerations) that is important. Balance sheet debt can be important for post EBITDAR ( even though tax again is fraught in membership orgs with special rules) as depreciation lowers taxable earnings.
Anyway the AFL is a special category of corrupt as it could pay off all our debt ( and probably all AFL clubs debts with a stroke of a pen) however they want to keep us as the Washington Generals and pump money into 'growth' areas like the GCS and GWS money pits. This is for broadcast rights.

Bottom line. Finnis was the AFL's man brought in to fix the finances under the AFL 's faux guidelines so they would look good on the books and not have to spend too much money on that. He did that and got rewarded for his efforts.
As I said was he good for football? No ordinary. Was he good for the finances, absolutely yes AND got us out of Seaford with a wonderful redevelopment of Linton St.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

The Norm Smith voters presumably indulged liberally from an open bar. Neale was best on. I can certainly understand putting Ashcroft first in your voting, but two judges not giving Neale second place and one not including him at all! Umps would have done a better job.

I didn't see possession numbers and thought Ah Chee and Ashcroft were the best two on the ground. Ah Chee seemed to do high impact stuff and kept popping up and creating magic moments. Ashcroft particularly early seemed to do lots of the grunt work. Neale seemed really good when the game was already iced and others were already celebrating.

 

[gringo2011]

I was at the game and couldn't agree more. Him and Harris Andrews were incredible in the first half.

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Starcevic is a very good player but elevated himself this finals series.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Debt is lower from memory but it is moot

It isn't entirely moot. Being in debt means we need AFL coin. We have to watch our words when giving the AFL criticism.

 

[gringo2011]

The academy only gets the swans so far. Lets be fair, they're mid table without the ludicrous concessions.

Funny enough Champion Data reckoned the Swans weren't in the premiership window but we were because their defence wasn't up to standard. Hoyne said the same about Carlton. At oner point he said our defence was one in the premiership zone and the outlier.

Swans are really young as well and have a shit bottom 6.

 

[gringo2011]

I won't bore you with accounting theory but a couple of relevant points.
The revamped Docklands deal is still terrible. All it has done had stopped the absolute hemorrhaging of money for home games resulting in nothing more than stabilisation. We made more money from Spuds match at the G than the whole of the rest of our home games. Let that sink in. The AFL owe us about 30 million for decades of gate receipts we lost which they MADE us take.
Your ignorance between a commercial organisation and a non profit is understandable but don't think Sommers had any dealings in the redevelopment except for getting his toe in the water for any construction deals, however due to conflict of interest he would have to recuse himself.
As for debt. You need to understand the difference between non current and operating debt. That's why I said look at the cash flow differences probably using old school ratio's to understand the position.
Debt is lower from memory but it is moot. It is the ability to service debt ( hence cash flow considerations) that is important. Balance sheet debt can be important for post EBITDAR ( even though tax again is fraught in membership orgs with special rules) as depreciation lowers taxable earnings.
Anyway the AFL is a special category of corrupt as it could pay off all our debt ( and probably all AFL clubs debts with a stroke of a pen) however they want to keep us as the Washington Generals and pump money into 'growth' areas like the GCS and GWS money pits. This is for broadcast rights.

Bottom line. Finnis was the AFL's man brought in to fix the finances under the AFL 's faux guidelines so they would look good on the books and not have to spend too much money on that. He did that and got rewarded for his efforts.
As I said was he good for football? No ordinary. Was he good for the finances, absolutely yes AND got us out of Seaford with a wonderful redevelopment of Linton St.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

The docklands deal is great if fans show up. We tried to run an austerity campaign and spend nothing on the core business and ran ourselves down. Fans don't show up to watch a C grade list play Richo footy. If you knew nothing about running an AFL club, you'd work out pretty quickly that making your club as competitive and exciting as possible to attract people to watch is the first, second and third most important factor.

We were lazy because we were fed money for nothing and had no pressure to perform from fans. I turned on them when my son was in the academy when it started. They were selling the vision to parents and the way they spoke was all about inclusivity, community, connection and a bunch of buzz words. The future AFLW side got much more energy and time.

When they spoke about footy it was about how the fans don't really care about being a good side. It was like a business group had completely misread their market. They were pitching at a fan base that had no interest in success but wanted to wave rainbow flags and chase socially progressive causes. I'm a lefty and I was nearly spewing.

 

[Diehard Saint]

It doesn't matter what good things we do, or try to do as a club or as individuals within the club.

Unless it relates to kicking, tackling or running some punter will always pipe up with "should just focus on footy".

Never mind, in Finnis's case, how many people were employed to focus on footy so he could focus on digging us out of the enormous hole we were in.

99 percent of fans could tell you very little of what he did or didn't do anyway. They just see the W/L of that period and say well he must have sucked. How well he did or didn't set us up for future success doesn't enter their mind.

I'm no expert either in these things, but I feel like we're in a better off-field situation than I can remember. I'm grateful to those involved. Hopefully we can turn their efforts into some wins.

When I walk into RSEA park I think here is a club and facility to be proud of.
Of course the ultimate aim must be a premiership, but you don’t get close to it without all your other ducks in a row.

And it’s happening. Tbh I know nothing about the operations in and around the club, but I can feel something building. And yes, I believe it did start with Finnis. We needed to get back on track.
Imagine still being in Seaford. Doesn’t actually bear thinking about.

 

[gringo2011]

When I walk into RSEA park I think here is a club and facility to be proud of.
Of course the ultimate aim must be a premiership, but you don’t get close to it with out all your other ducks in a row.

And it’s happening. Tbh I know nothing about the operations in and around the club, but I can feel something building. And yes, it did start with Finnis.
Imagine still being in Seaford. Doesn’t actually bear thinking about.

The AFL have funded every club to improve their facilities to an equivalent standard. I guess we'd already had a hand out to build the Seaford facility but it was so amateur that it looked like the Carrum Downs JFC club house from day one. I doubt it cost much. Finnis was there when the papers got signed, not sure it wouldn't have got done anyway.

I reckon you could probably put more down to that being Gilligan McCockless's incredible ability to sign outrageous TV rights deals and gambling industry pocket stuffing.

 

[Fehring]

I didn't see possession numbers and thought Ah Chee and Ashcroft were the best two on the ground. Ah Chee seemed to do high impact stuff and kept popping up and creating magic moments. Ashcroft particularly early seemed to do lots of the grunt work. Neale seemed really good when the game was already iced and others were already celebrating.

I saw it differently. I was lucky enough to be at the game up high. In the first quarter and a half when the game was on the line, there were three or four times when Neale won a contested ball in a phone box. The Swans were pushing forward in waves and Neale would spit out the back of the pack (inviting more pressure), wheel through traffic and all of a sudden be in the clear and delivering to a target. Each of those moves wrongfooted the Swans and turned what looked like being a Swans attack into a quality forward move by the Lions (not merely a Seb Ross kick over the shoulder, which is what usually happens when someone is forced out the back of a pack). I thought each of them were game changers. He was the grunt that the Lions built their first half dominance on.

 

[phantom13]

Went to the game, my first GF live. A bunch of Lions supporting mates had a spare membership and offered it to me on the condition that I barrack for them. They gave me a scarf and hat for the day and I played the part well. Watching their reactions and the other fans around us throughout the game was pretty magical. A few goosebumps inducing moments for sure. Had to keep my mouth shut and remind myself it's not about me when they started going on about '20 long years!' lol. Had a great night on the town, obviously pretty hollow for me but the energy and joy of my mates was contagious. Couldn't stop thinking about how great it's going to be when our time comes.

Was lucky enough to be with my brother in law in 2016 (dogs supporter) at a big house party. That was a pretty great moment for him and it was nice to be around.

 

[Saints43]

Incorrect. The football dept happens because the AFL funds it.

I hope you're listening to the number of football department staff that Ross is thanking at the B&F.
If you think the AFL pays for all of those staff then you're delusional.

And if you think they'd work in anything less than what Finnis built....

 

[StCicatriz]

I hope you're listening to the number of football department staff that Ross is thanking at the B&F.
If you think the AFL pays for all of those staff then you're delusional.

And if you think they'd work in anything less than what Finnis built....

Yeh I think they do for the majority of it. Go read the amount of money we receive from the AFL.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Yeh I think they do for the majority of it. Go read the amount of money we receive from the AFL.

We receive money from the AFL due to the shit stadium and fixture deals we get

 

[CaptainRisky]

heeney....

it's happening....

On SM-A156E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Why would you want a bloke that goes missing in GF's

 

[CaptainRisky]

Lets just hope all those absolute nufties stay on their Uncensored facebook page and don't come over her , they are next level

PS , Special mention to Darren , Clubhouse leader by a mile

 

[Dr Spaceman]

 

[gubby88]

Lets just hope all those absolute nufties stay on their Uncensored facebook page and don't come over her , they are next level

PS , Special mention to Darren , Clubhouse leader by a mile

reckon that David Penn bloke has him covered by an absolute distance lol

 

[CaptainRisky]

reckon that David Penn bloke has him covered by an absolute distance lol

Photo finish mate , there are some serious toss wads on there for sure

 

[SteeleSaints]

It's no surprise that nearing the end of the external review of the Melbourne FC that Oliver is now looking for another club. He is a rotten apple and has been a cancer, you cant have a couple of players behaviours rail roading an entire club. Now Geelong think they are the great rehab club taking on Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

and Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

and believe they can correct every player with off field issues. Hopefully it 'blows' up in their face!

 

[Nutsngum]

Am I the only one who thinks the media are going absolutely nuts this year even more so then previous?

Morris has been repeatably embarrassed with going hard at stories that have either no truth to them (Marshall) or are so preliminary that they wouldn't normally get off the ground (the Merrett story). It seems obvious to me he's got a chip on his shoulder about the club and is actively trying to dig up any sort of dirt possible.

Discussion around our compensation pick being obviously approached from a vindictive point of view and not really logically. Barrett being a two faced slimeball saying we dont deserve pick 8, Ralph Clarke pushing a questioning narrative as if we dont etc..

Dustin Martin moving to the Gold Coast. Theres been absolutely no inkling of word from Martin or anyone else involved that this was ever a serious consideration yet theres been a massive amount of coverage and discussion based on a rumour.

Huge amount of discussion about Melbourne and all the upset thats really not been elaborated on or even really commented on by the club themselves but the media are reporting that everything is on fire and Petracca/Oliver are leaving then not leaving etc.. I just dont buy that either player is that fed up or that the issues are that bad as to be legitimately seeking trades that would be nearly impossible to actually make happen.

Trade talk/gettable etc.. is just chock full of the absolute vaguest rumours that seem to be purely based on player management inquiries rather then any serious discussions and are then parroted across all the other media people until they start to gain legs.

The discussion of late around academies/FS has been highly disingenuous with a lot of people in the media purposely ignoring obvious points and very emotively defending the status quo based on personal interests.


I could go on for another hour listing out shit but basically its doing my head in. I enjoy reading/listening to AFL related media like everyone else but the general lack of integrity amongst nearly everyone in the general media community is become really dire. This is a mild rant for sure but its legitimately harming our game in my opinion.

 

[jumperfan]

Am I the only one who thinks the media are going absolutely nuts this year even more so then previous?

Morris has been repeatably embarrassed with going hard at stories that have either no truth to them (Marshall) or are so preliminary that they wouldn't normally get off the ground (the Merrett story). It seems obvious to me he's got a chip on his shoulder about the club and is actively trying to dig up any sort of dirt possible.

Discussion around our compensation pick being obviously approached from a vindictive point of view and not really logically. Barrett being a two faced slimeball saying we dont deserve pick 8, Ralph Clarke pushing a questioning narrative as if we dont etc..

Dustin Martin moving to the Gold Coast. Theres been absolutely no inkling of word from Martin or anyone else involved that this was ever a serious consideration yet theres been a massive amount of coverage and discussion based on a rumour.

Huge amount of discussion about Melbourne and all the upset thats really not been elaborated on or even really commented on by the club themselves but the media are reporting that everything is on fire and Petracca/Oliver are leaving then not leaving etc.. I just dont buy that either player is that fed up or that the issues are that bad as to be legitimately seeking trades that would be nearly impossible to actually make happen.

Trade talk/gettable etc.. is just chock full of the absolute vaguest rumours that seem to be purely based on player management inquiries rather then any serious discussions and are then parroted across all the other media people until they start to gain legs.

The discussion of late around academies/FS has been highly disingenuous with a lot of people in the media purposely ignoring obvious points and very emotively defending the status quo based on personal interests.


I could go on for another hour listing out shit but basically its doing my head in. I enjoy reading/listening to AFL related media like everyone else but the general lack of integrity amongst nearly everyone in the general media community is become really dire. This is a mild rant for sure but its legitimately harming our game in my opinion.

Not gonna pretend I'm an expert on the media industry but it does seem like it's had a fairly significant amount of upheaval this year so maybe these guys are trying to pull stories out of thin air to justify their jobs?