List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Bamboo Harvester]

Also a big fan of Little Durds, has great upside like Mots a little different in forward/mid type abilities both can/will be dangerous if they stay on the park…
Fingers crossed he just doesn’t turn into one of our current few players that keeps on struggling with ongoing injuries…
Knock on wood fingers crossed

Yep, we're a better side when #19 is out there....

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

yeah agree. I like durds too but he's a little behind mots imo. He was going really well for a little while then he seemed to go cold a bit - not sure if it was injury related?

2021 : 2 games 2 goals
2022 : 21 games 21 goals
2023 : 11 games 11 goals
Knee Shoulder Hamstring injuries restricted him to only 1 game after the mid season bye, struggled with form in the first half of the season because of the body…

Averaging a goal a game in his first three seasons of games, has plenty of upside personally and particularly with better spread of forward line impact from all as well as a better quality team entries improves…

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Yep, we're a better side when #19 is out there....

Big part of our future, B23…

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

yeah agree. I like durds too but he's a little behind mots imo. He was going really well for a little while then he seemed to go cold a bit - not sure if it was injury related?

I don't reckon it's a case of whether he's behind Mots, but having both of them in the side will be: 1+1=3....

Both have been victims in the past of our crabbing style of play, allowing the opposition to get numbers back and forcing us to hack the ball into a packed forward half....good luck to any small forward in that scenario.

Motlop was running around in the magoo's half way during the year before he got the much needed rocket. You could see his game blossom during the 2nd half of the year when we started moving the ball quicker between the arcs and opening up the forward half. I would love to have seen what Durds could have done when we were on that roll.

 

[Graffy4242]

And don't forget he grew up supporting Carlton.

Correct. I used to work with his Dad and they are a mad Blues family. I think he might surprise a few next season.

 

[Coona Blues]

I don't reckon it's a case of whether he's behind Mots, but having both of them in the side will be: 1+1=3....

Both have been victims in the past of our crabbing style of play, allowing the opposition to get numbers back and forcing us to hack the ball into a packed forward half....good luck to any small forward in that scenario.

Motlop was running around in the magoo's half way during the year before he got the much needed rocket. You could see his game blossom during the 2nd half of the year when we started moving the ball quicker between the arcs and opening up the forward half. I would love to have seen what Durds could have done when we were on that roll.

Durds has not had the chance to play regular games beside the enhanced model utilising Acres and Ollie to provide the lion’s share of our defensive coverage.

I am hopeful he is being managed to the point of having him 100% ready before being played. The Teague model threw the boys out there when “close”. We have pretty much turned around our “LTI brigade”, giving them the necessary groundwork to put their chronic injuries behind. Fogarty is now where Durds should be, after multiple seasons with back related soundness issues.

Fog is an undersized mid/link player who has embraced the high half forward role to try to forge an AFL career. We can do a lot worse going forward, but I have little doubt that for the required role, Durds is an upgrade. While both are/were mid first, Durds is more natural forward. Absolutely Durds has kicking skills, particularly in front of goal, significantly superior to Fogarty. The eye test also suggests DDurds to be quicker and have better aerobic capacity. (Readily concede opinion based rather than fact).

Don’t get me wrong, I have been a Fogarty fan since before he was drafted to the Cats. His carnival performances were impressive. He had more hyped team mates, but consistently worked through the middle and in front of the ball as a mop up linking player who got to the right spots to cover his less defensively minded team mates. Showed great qualities even then which are somewhat replicated now.

I simply believe Durds is the better fit in our structure. Like Fog is an undersized mid, highly decorated at junior level before an inevitable move forward. Durds has a more natural presence in front of the big sticks, well able to produce the mercurial snap or hit the target from 50 metre or even beyond. Work rates and game sense are similar, although I believe Durds to be more offensive minded.

Modern small forwards have evolved to the point that a lesser skilled workaholic (like Castagna) can usurp a more naturally gifted goal sneak. This is clearly evident with our own Jesse Motlop who is not naturally inclined to do the defensive hard yards. Thankfully Mots has been educated that he must bring the pressure and work rate which seems to now have him a first choice small forward. It is not to a level to necessarily have him in front of a fit Durdin or even Fogarty at the moment in my opinion.

I need to mention Matt Owies in this discussion too, as he is far from yesterday’s news. Similar to Fog, but more offensively wired. Very much a “created” player. Diligence, work rate, pressure, positioning and reliability CLOSE to goal make him a viable modern small. For me it is hard to see him in front of a fit and maturing Durdin and Motlop combination. Owies perhaps has an injury checkered history to rival Orazio with soft tissue concerns as well. I feel a little vindicated with my opinions given that Voss deemed the ageing and unsound Fantasia as a necessity to recruit. We wanted to upgrade our small forward options as well as the positives around bringing in a natural and experienced small forward who can act as a mentor for our eclectic group of smalls. Motlop is the only other one who came from a junior background focussed in the front half of the ground.

I see all of Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia, Owies, Fogarty and Cuningham as very capable prospects in our forward half who will give us decent, or better service when called upon, but I see our forward structure developing over the next couple of seasons. Hopefully we can find a potent mix from early in the season.

Long term

Durdin and Motlop > Fogarty and Owies.

I remain a bit perplexed how Fantasia will affect our line up, but will certainly add X-factor if he gets on the park. My unknown is how much defensive work rate he brings. Well aware of his tackling prowess, just consistency of effort I want to see.

Matt Cottrell is somewhere in this mix too, seemingly has a spot to lose as a HHF/wing pinch hitter. Another who is more learned than instinctive. His role may/ will be impacted by the use of Sam Docherty who has adopted a utility role with some time in the forward half. For now, we will always find a spot for Doc, it may well significantly impact our forward mix.

For me Elijah Hollands > than Cuningham, and takes that spot. I like Cuners, but his inability to remain involved is a likely issue with the growing number of options (when fit).

Then there is the Jack Martin role, almost certainly with Ashton Moir as the heir apparent. When fit, Jack is a staple, but is out of contract and will need to improve his durability if Moir can step up quickly.

It would be remiss if me not to mention the prospect of Rob Monahan. The Irishman has turned heads already befor a ball is kicked in anger. Just a few short months after being introduced to our game, is quite phenomenal. No easy intro from behind the ball, Rob is playing exclusively in the front half.and quickly establishing himself on highlight reels. Looking forward to VFL footage to assess first hand his overall impact and possible readiness. Certainly ticks to speed box.

Our peripheral forwards mix has remained a conundrum, I am relatively confident this will be resolved in the coming weeks. It will be almost as much about connection as it will be about individuals. I will almost welcome a bit of revolving doors selection for the first half of the year while we establish our best structure.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Don't discount Matt Owies, he's a very smart footballer only getting better with experience...only 50 games under his belt so far....

Mightn't have the pizzazz of the other three but....

1.5 goals a game average in 2023 - that's darn good.

Matt Owies	Name	Orazio Fantasia	Jesse Motlop	Name	Corey Durdin
49	Career Games	99	33	Career Games	34
St Kevins	Origin	Norwood	South Fremantle	Origin	Central Districts
March 19, 1997	Date of Birth	September 14, 1995	November 23, 2003	Date of Birth	April 14, 2002
26yr 11mth	Age	28yr 5mth	20yr 3mth	Age	21yr 10mth
179cm	Height	180cm	180cm	Height	173cm
81kg	Weight	73kg	81kg	Weight	76kg
	Last Draft Position	Round 3, Pick #55	Round 2, Pick #27	Last Draft Position	Round 2, Pick #37
Career		Career	Career		Career
49	Games	99	33	Games	34
5.8	Kicks	7.4	5.4	Kicks	5.5
3.3	Handballs	5.6	4	Handballs	2.9
9	Disposals	13	9.4	Disposals	8.5
2.8	Marks	3.4	1.8	Marks	1.7
1.1	Goals	1.4	1.1	Goals	0.8
0.8	Behinds	1.1	0.4	Behinds	0.5
3	Tackles	2.8	2.4	Tackles	2.8
0	Hitouts	0	0	Hitouts	0
1.5	Inside 50s	2.5	1.8	Inside 50s	1.4
0.5	Goal Assists	0.6	0.2	Goal Assists	0.5
0.8	Frees For	0.8	0.6	Frees For	0.4
0.7	Frees Against	0.7	0.9	Frees Against	0.4
4.1	Contested Possessions	4.7	4.1	Contested Possessions	3.8
5.2	Uncontested Possessions	8.3	5.4	Uncontested Possessions	4.9
6.2	Effective Disposals	9	6.2	Effective Disposals	5.6
68.90%	DE %	69.20%	66.00%	DE %	65.90%
1.7	Clangers	1.9	2	Clangers	1.5
0.2	Contested Marks	0.2	0.2	Contested Marks	0.1
1.3	Marks Inside 50	1.2	0.5	Marks Inside 50	0.4
0.4	Clearances	0.8	0.1	Clearances	0.4
0.2	Rebound 50s	0.6	0.2	Rebound 50s	0.2
1	One Percenters	0.9	0.5	One Percenters	0.7
0.1	Bounces	0.6	0.2	Bounces	0.1
73.6	Time On Ground %	76.3	70.6	Time On Ground %	72.2
0	Centre Clearances		0	Centre Clearances	0.1
0.3	Stoppage Clearances		0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.4
4.4	Score Involvements		3.5	Score Involvements	3.5
136.8	Metres Gained		150.6	Metres Gained	144.4
1.9	Turnovers		2.4	Turnovers	1.8
0.8	Intercepts		0.9	Intercepts	0.6
1.4	Tackles Inside 50		1.4	Tackles Inside 50	1.3​

 

[Coona Blues]

Don't discount Matt Owies, he's a very smart footballer only getting better with experience...only 50 games under his belt so far....

Mightn't have the pizzazz of the other three but....

1.5 goals a game average in 2023 - that's darn good.

Matt Owies	Name	Orazio Fantasia	Jesse Motlop	Name	Corey Durdin
49	Career Games	99	33	Career Games	34
St Kevins	Origin	Norwood	South Fremantle	Origin	Central Districts
March 19, 1997	Date of Birth	September 14, 1995	November 23, 2003	Date of Birth	April 14, 2002
26yr 11mth	Age	28yr 5mth	20yr 3mth	Age	21yr 10mth
179cm	Height	180cm	180cm	Height	173cm
81kg	Weight	73kg	81kg	Weight	76kg
	Last Draft Position	Round 3, Pick #55	Round 2, Pick #27	Last Draft Position	Round 2, Pick #37
Career		Career	Career		Career
49	Games	99	33	Games	34
5.8	Kicks	7.4	5.4	Kicks	5.5
3.3	Handballs	5.6	4	Handballs	2.9
9	Disposals	13	9.4	Disposals	8.5
2.8	Marks	3.4	1.8	Marks	1.7
1.1	Goals	1.4	1.1	Goals	0.8
0.8	Behinds	1.1	0.4	Behinds	0.5
3	Tackles	2.8	2.4	Tackles	2.8
0	Hitouts	0	0	Hitouts	0
1.5	Inside 50s	2.5	1.8	Inside 50s	1.4
0.5	Goal Assists	0.6	0.2	Goal Assists	0.5
0.8	Frees For	0.8	0.6	Frees For	0.4
0.7	Frees Against	0.7	0.9	Frees Against	0.4
4.1	Contested Possessions	4.7	4.1	Contested Possessions	3.8
5.2	Uncontested Possessions	8.3	5.4	Uncontested Possessions	4.9
6.2	Effective Disposals	9	6.2	Effective Disposals	5.6
68.90%	DE %	69.20%	66.00%	DE %	65.90%
1.7	Clangers	1.9	2	Clangers	1.5
0.2	Contested Marks	0.2	0.2	Contested Marks	0.1
1.3	Marks Inside 50	1.2	0.5	Marks Inside 50	0.4
0.4	Clearances	0.8	0.1	Clearances	0.4
0.2	Rebound 50s	0.6	0.2	Rebound 50s	0.2
1	One Percenters	0.9	0.5	One Percenters	0.7
0.1	Bounces	0.6	0.2	Bounces	0.1
73.6	Time On Ground %	76.3	70.6	Time On Ground %	72.2
0	Centre Clearances		0	Centre Clearances	0.1
0.3	Stoppage Clearances		0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.4
4.4	Score Involvements		3.5	Score Involvements	3.5
136.8	Metres Gained		150.6	Metres Gained	144.4
1.9	Turnovers		2.4	Turnovers	1.8
0.8	Intercepts		0.9	Intercepts	0.6
1.4	Tackles Inside 50		1.4	Tackles Inside 50	1.3​

I am not one to put massive stake in statistics. They are an effective tool and certainly have their place, but cannot factor in countless variations

I prefer to assess players on.
Skills
Instincts
Decision making
Game sense
Commitment
Confidence
Focus
Courage
Athleticism
Responsibility
Team ethos
Spatial awareness
and a host of other subtle traits both tangible and sometimes intangible.

The (educated) eye test.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

I am not one to put massive stake in statistics. They are an effective tool and certainly have their place, but cannot factor in countless variations

I prefer to assess players on.
Skills
Instincts
Decision making
Game sense
Commitment
Confidence
Focus
Courage
Athleticism
Responsibility
Team ethos
Spatial awareness
and a host of other subtle traits both tangible and sometimes intangible.

The (educated) eye test.

No argument from me.

It was more to highlight their ages, games played frankly.

Owies has improved every year, year on year.... as they all should as they age, get more pre seasons and games under their belts.

Reckon he very much has a role to play in the 23.

 

[thylacine60]

what stats are there to numerically define owies finding space, or a player reading the play well, shepherding, advising a young player how to be better? watch the game and you won't need to read the book..........

 

[Accidental genius]

I don't reckon it's a case of whether he's behind Mots, but having both of them in the side will be: 1+1=3....

Both have been victims in the past of our crabbing style of play, allowing the opposition to get numbers back and forcing us to hack the ball into a packed forward half....good luck to any small forward in that scenario.

Motlop was running around in the magoo's half way during the year before he got the much needed rocket. You could see his game blossom during the 2nd half of the year when we started moving the ball quicker between the arcs and opening up the forward half. I would love to have seen what Durds could have done when we were on that roll.

If all players are available which players make up the forward group?

H and Charlie are locks

3 from - Martin EHollands cunners fantasia jsos others?

2 from - mots durds owies fog

Fog plays mid and small forward which gives coaches a bit more flexibility.

Who would you pick?

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

If all players are available which players make up the forward group?

H and Charlie are locks

3 from - Martin EHollands cunners fantasia jsos others?

2 from - mots durds owies fog

Fog plays mid and small forward which gives coaches a bit more flexibility.

Who would you pick?

If we had all players available, my 7 forwards would be a combo of 2 talls, 2 mediums who can mark, and 3 smalls.

Charles and H definitely locks for the talls. Martin and JSOS on the flanks. Durds, Motlop and Fantasia/Fog for the smalls.

TDK starts on the bench rotating through the ruck with Pitto, and has stints up forward either rotating with the talls or playing an extra tall at times to stretch the defence - similar to what we did in the Semi last year.

For mine, E Hollands is more mid/forward - but I don't have him in front of any of these at the moment as a starting forward.

 

[GT619]

kpd short and quality ruckman most needed

 

[Revenant1965]

I am here to repent. I was one who thought we really had no KPD depth behind Weitering. Nigel always seems to be injured and Young out of form/ lost confidence. But after last night, Young... played a great game. And TDK... played like a full on number one ruck. The future is bright

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Fogarty would have to be about the easiest re-signing going around. Pressure is absolutely prolific up forward, despite not being a big goal kicker. Fantastic game sense and involvement up the ground.

Still think we are one goal kicking mid/half forward short of being flag fancies. Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

25

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

makes such a difference for the Lions whenever he gets the ball, something we just don't have.

I know Motlop is said to be ready for a breakout year so we wait and see on how he goes. If he can't quite be that player for us this year then Tyson Stengle

18

Tyson Stengle

Age

26

Ht

175cm

Wt

71kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.8

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

10.3

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

the obvious target for me, UFA and Geelong expected to slide down a bit. Would fit in seemlessly.

 

[Kruezing]

I am here to repent. I was one who thought we really had no KPD depth behind Weitering. Nigel always seems to be injured and Young out of form/ lost confidence. But after last night, Young... played a great game. And TDK... played like a full on number one ruck. The future is bright

TDK is the number one guy now … H and others relief ruck JSOS when he’s back … Pitto is now backup …

 

[Michael Jezz]

Don't discount Matt Owies, he's a very smart footballer only getting better with experience...only 50 games under his belt so far....

Mightn't have the pizzazz of the other three but....

1.5 goals a game average in 2023 - that's darn good.

Matt Owies	Name	Orazio Fantasia	Jesse Motlop	Name	Corey Durdin
49	Career Games	99	33	Career Games	34
St Kevins	Origin	Norwood	South Fremantle	Origin	Central Districts
March 19, 1997	Date of Birth	September 14, 1995	November 23, 2003	Date of Birth	April 14, 2002
26yr 11mth	Age	28yr 5mth	20yr 3mth	Age	21yr 10mth
179cm	Height	180cm	180cm	Height	173cm
81kg	Weight	73kg	81kg	Weight	76kg
	Last Draft Position	Round 3, Pick #55	Round 2, Pick #27	Last Draft Position	Round 2, Pick #37
Career		Career	Career		Career
49	Games	99	33	Games	34
5.8	Kicks	7.4	5.4	Kicks	5.5
3.3	Handballs	5.6	4	Handballs	2.9
9	Disposals	13	9.4	Disposals	8.5
2.8	Marks	3.4	1.8	Marks	1.7
1.1	Goals	1.4	1.1	Goals	0.8
0.8	Behinds	1.1	0.4	Behinds	0.5
3	Tackles	2.8	2.4	Tackles	2.8
0	Hitouts	0	0	Hitouts	0
1.5	Inside 50s	2.5	1.8	Inside 50s	1.4
0.5	Goal Assists	0.6	0.2	Goal Assists	0.5
0.8	Frees For	0.8	0.6	Frees For	0.4
0.7	Frees Against	0.7	0.9	Frees Against	0.4
4.1	Contested Possessions	4.7	4.1	Contested Possessions	3.8
5.2	Uncontested Possessions	8.3	5.4	Uncontested Possessions	4.9
6.2	Effective Disposals	9	6.2	Effective Disposals	5.6
68.90%	DE %	69.20%	66.00%	DE %	65.90%
1.7	Clangers	1.9	2	Clangers	1.5
0.2	Contested Marks	0.2	0.2	Contested Marks	0.1
1.3	Marks Inside 50	1.2	0.5	Marks Inside 50	0.4
0.4	Clearances	0.8	0.1	Clearances	0.4
0.2	Rebound 50s	0.6	0.2	Rebound 50s	0.2
1	One Percenters	0.9	0.5	One Percenters	0.7
0.1	Bounces	0.6	0.2	Bounces	0.1
73.6	Time On Ground %	76.3	70.6	Time On Ground %	72.2
0	Centre Clearances		0	Centre Clearances	0.1
0.3	Stoppage Clearances		0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.4
4.4	Score Involvements		3.5	Score Involvements	3.5
136.8	Metres Gained		150.6	Metres Gained	144.4
1.9	Turnovers		2.4	Turnovers	1.8
0.8	Intercepts		0.9	Intercepts	0.6
1.4	Tackles Inside 50		1.4	Tackles Inside 50	1.3​

I respect owies but I don't think we are winning a premiership with him in the 22.
Look at the difference in class of the small fwds in the last few premiership sides and their Grand Final performances

 

[JuddgementDay]

Yes, it's only one win - but, all of the sudden our list looks even better now

Jack Carroll - demonstrated depth that we've been hiding in plain sight!

Bring home the 17 cup

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Yes, it's only one win - but, all of the sudden our list looks even better now

Jack Carroll - demonstrated depth that we've been hiding in plain sight!

Bring home the 17 cup

I didn't want to derail the other thread talking Carlton all the way through it.
I'm not convinced that EH is best 23 he has shown nothing at the level or in the praccy matches.
Have I missed something?

 

[JuddgementDay]

I didn't want to derail the other thread talking Carlton all the way through it.
I'm not convinced that EH is best 23 he has shown nothing at the level or in the praccy matches.
Have I missed something?

IMO he is classy & will only get better.
He has a decent tank too

Prepared to enjoy your surprise with EH

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

IMO he is classy & will only get better.
He has a decent tank too

Prepared to enjoy your surprise with EH

he has elite written all over him imo....

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

How much $ do we reckon Doc would be on if he were to call his career this year?

Champion of the team hope whatever he does he remains around the club in some sort of coaching capacity

 

[The Return of the Paf]

I am here to repent. I was one who thought we really had no KPD depth behind Weitering. Nigel always seems to be injured and Young out of form/ lost confidence. But after last night, Young... played a great game. And TDK... played like a full on number one ruck. The future is bright

I'd still like us to draft another quality key position...

Spoiler

forward.

 

[JustOneTime]

I respect owies but I don't think we are winning a premiership with him in the 22.
Look at the difference in class of the small fwds in the last few premiership sides and their Grand Final performances

Wrong way to look at it. Take Frampton.

Dictionary. 'Frampton'. A tall human being devoid of any AFL talent. Collingwood Grand Final medalist winner.

Each club has to carry non-elite players who are contributors. Owies is a contributor like fogarty but is non-elite. Having said that, fog was elite vs the Lions.

It's actually important to have someone like Owies. they galvanise the group, keep everyone level headed and never get carried away with themselves. Always chase, always try. Owies is no worse than Castagna for the Tiges. Maybe not quite as good as Castagna but in the same conversation.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If Melbourne's giving away any more Bedfords I'll take em thank you.