List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[BlueJet]

But then as you dig deeper you realise the crux of our issue.

Our small forwards can't get their hands on the ball to kick it inside 50 and half of them do bugger all when they finally get the opportunity to.

In comparison:

Gryan Miers - 4.8 (1.6 GA's)
Brad Close - 3.8 (1.0 GA's)
Tyson Stengle - 3.4 (1.2 GA's)
Oliver Henry - 2.0 (1.4 GA's)

Toby Greene - 4.8 (1.8 GA's)
Brent Daniels - 4.0 (1.4 GA's)
Xavier O'Halloran - 3.2 (1.0 GA's)
Harvey Thomas 1.4 (1.2 GA's)

Zac Bailey - 4.8 (0.8 GA's)
Cam Rayner 3.8 (0.8 GA's)
Lincoln McCarthy - 3.0 (1.0 GA's)
Charlie Cameron 2.6 (0.6 GA's)


Fogarty is our only small forward with comparable numbers to any good small around the league, but as we know... He's not much of a goal kicker. Been a big advocate for Fog since he returned to the side last year but we need far higher quality around him. He's the scrapyard dog pressuring and forcing turnovers... Issue is the rest of them aren't doing anywhere near enough.

We need more from them, no doubt.
My interpretation of the numbers (SI, I50 & GA) is that they're involved in scoring chains but not getting the ball delivered to them all that often & when they are, they're usually having a shot.

 

[BlueJet]

SDK can mark above his head

Marking & agility are a concern for me.

 

[Accidental genius]

Just had a quick look. There are a few decent OOC players

George (Nth), Stengel (FA) Cats), Busslinger (Dogs), Haywood (FA) Swans), Smith (Dogs), Moyle (Suns)

Out of Favour
Yeo (WC), Macrae (Dogs)

What about Curtis (?) from north? He’s a good small forward but not sure about his contract status or whether he’d consider leaving Roos.

He is perfect for our needs.

 

[Lace_Out]

We need speed.

Can't think of anyone on our list who has serious break away speed.

We are a one paced side by and large.

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[Lukeblueboy]

We need speed.

Can't think of anyone on our list who has serious break away speed.

We are a one paced side by and large.

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% agree

 

[BluStreak]

What do the Dog's have on their list that we could pick up? Looks like they have stamped the current list as not good enough to win a GF so will be offloading at season end.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

No doubt we need to improve our forward line but hopefully we have the answers already in Motlop and Martin. We also pretty much score aswell as any side does. Outside of GWS all the top sides are pretty similar.
We do look slow and at times and I’m not sure we can fix that problem internally. More then happy for us to spend two first rounders bringing in the right type this season.
There really is no standout list (though GWS look like they could) the time is now for success.

 

[Y Goat]

We need speed.

Can't think of anyone on our list who has serious break away speed.

We are a one paced side by and large.

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C Durdin has a bit of breakaway speed and power. Walsh too, looked v. quick on saturday. Boyd looks quite quick too... And, reportedly Wilson the newbie has pace.

but yes, we need more speed in the team, esp the midfield.

FWIW - i believe Durdin can become a dangerous fast small forward in the mould being talked about, he needs a good run with injury and more experience as to how/where to get involved in the forward line game plan.

( BTW - is there a fwd line game plan? seems crowded and high ball to double-teamed KPF's - Adelaide's was a stark contrast, their guys marking 5 - 15m out, many of these uncontested / loose )

 

[BlueJet]

C Durdin has a bit of breakaway speed and power. Walsh too, looked v. quick on saturday. Boyd looks quite quick too... And, reportedly Wilson the newbie has pace.

but yes, we need more speed in the team, esp the midfield.

FWIW - i believe Durdin can become a dangerous fast small forward in the mould being talked about, he needs a good run with injury and more experience as to how/where to get involved in the forward line game plan.

( BTW - is there a fwd line game plan? seems crowded and high ball to double-teamed KPF's - Adelaide's was a stark contrast, their guys marking 5 - 15m out, many of these uncontested / loose )

We seem to be very Charlie & Harry centric.
Adelaide were able to go 2 up against them because we weren't looking to other targets.
Owies & Cotters aren't stars but they've shown they can hit the scoreboard as hitup options.
If we keep hitting them on the move, the opposition will need to respect them so they're unable to sag off onto the primary targets.
If we're less predictable with our ball movement going inside f50, there's little doubt in my mind that our forward line will be more efficient.
There's still some question marks on the quality of our small-medium forwards, less so if Martin could stay on the park but it's something the LM team must be looking at addressing.

 

[Y Goat]

We seem to be very Charlie & Harry centric.
Adelaide were able to go 2 up against them because we weren't looking to other targets.
Owies & Cotters aren't stars but they've shown they can hit the scoreboard as hitup options.
If we keep hitting them on the move, the opposition will need to respect them so they're unable to sag off onto the primary targets.
If we're less predictable with our ball movement going inside f50, there's little doubt in my mind that our forward line will be more efficient.
There's still some question marks on the quality of our small-medium forwards, less so if Martin could stay on the park but it's something the LM team must be looking at addressing.

yep, they almost need to make a directive - going inside 50 Must kick to Cotts/Owies/Durds at least 1-2 times per quarter in order to get this into effect. i agree the payoff could be huge in terms of C & Harry

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

What do the Dog's have on their list that we could pick up? Looks like they have stamped the current list as not good enough to win a GF so will be offloading at season end.

Bont

 

[Coops93]

Hypothetical trade situation for the end of season.

Let's say Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

does end up requesting a trade, imo he's exactly the kind of mid we need - Runs hard, good long kick, goal kicking mid, the game breaking sort of type. Might be liable at times running the other way but adds a layer of offensive dynamism to our forward half we lack.

Presumedly we will be having a fairly low draft pick, in the 14-18 range (ideally 18), and also a couple F/S.

The Dogs say we want a player, draft picks aren't what we want right now.

What does their list need? Mids are ok, forwards are full of young prospects. Seemingly lacking in backs/key backs.

Would we do a swap of Kemp for Smith? Might seem light on on their side at first glance, but Smith is coming off a meandering career low season then another lost to a 12 month injury. 2 years where he's A. looked lost and a shadow of his best then B. lost to injury. I'm not sure there's going to be loads of teams offering up 2x first rounders for example, his value may wind up lower than what some would expect at first glance.

 

[Stamos]

Hypothetical trade situation for the end of season.

Let's say Bailey Smith does end up requesting a trade, imo he's exactly the kind of mid we need - Runs hard, good long kick, goal kicking mid, the game breaking sort of type. Might be liable at times running the other way but adds a layer of offensive dynamism to our forward half we lack.

Presumedly we will be having a fairly low draft pick, in the 14-18 range (ideally 18), and also a couple F/S.

The Dogs say we want a player, draft picks aren't what we want right now.

What does their list need? Mids are ok, forwards are full of young prospects. Seemingly lacking in backs/key backs.

Would we do a swap of Kemp for Smith? Might seem light on on their side at first glance, but Smith is coming off a meandering career low season then another lost to a 12 month injury. 2 years where he's A. looked lost and a shadow of his best then B. lost to injury. I'm not sure there's going to be loads of teams offering up 2x first rounders for example, his value may wind up lower than what some would expect at first glance.

No.
Intercept defenders are crucially important in the modern game. We have 2 other very good ones, but they are a lot older and quite fragile.

 

[Coops93]

No.
Intercept defenders are crucially important in the modern game. We have 2 other very good ones, but they are a lot older and quite fragile.

We have Cowan coming through and Kemp is just an ok to good interceptor, is just ok 1v1 but his ball use isn't great. I'm not sure he'd be a huge loss in our back 6 vs the addition Smith would provide.

 

[Stamos]

We have Cowan coming through and Kemp is just an ok to good interceptor, is just ok 1v1 but his ball use isn't great. I'm not sure he'd be a huge loss in our back 6 vs the addition Smith would provide.

Cowan is a different player, more of a replacement for Newman.

 

[Coops93]

Cowan is a different player, more of a replacement for Newman.

Even if that is the case I still stand by the point the addition of Smith skillset is more valuable to our side than Kemps.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Hypothetical trade situation for the end of season.

Let's say Bailey Smith does end up requesting a trade, imo he's exactly the kind of mid we need - Runs hard, good long kick, goal kicking mid, the game breaking sort of type. Might be liable at times running the other way but adds a layer of offensive dynamism to our forward half we lack.

Presumedly we will be having a fairly low draft pick, in the 14-18 range (ideally 18), and also a couple F/S.

The Dogs say we want a player, draft picks aren't what we want right now.

What does their list need? Mids are ok, forwards are full of young prospects. Seemingly lacking in backs/key backs.

Would we do a swap of Kemp for Smith? Might seem light on on their side at first glance, but Smith is coming off a meandering career low season then another lost to a 12 month injury. 2 years where he's A. looked lost and a shadow of his best then B. lost to injury. I'm not sure there's going to be loads of teams offering up 2x first rounders for example, his value may wind up lower than what some would expect at first glance.

At that point we'd be better off just playing Kemp on-ball. Has shown he can turn on the jets and take territory, he's no worse a kick than Smith, and he's got him for height.

If we want to try and pillage the Dogs, better for us to look at the quality players Bevo keeps leaving out like Bailey Dale and Caleb Daniel. They're rebounding defenders, which we're nominally pretty well set for, but there's no reason we can't recruit someone like Dale and then push Williams into a forward half role a full season after his return from the ACL.

I don't see why Caleb Daniel couldn't be repurposed as a high half forward either.

The other approach would be to get in Cody Weightman's ear and see if he wants to jump ship before Bevo runs them aground. Contracted for next season, so they'll hold the whip hand, but if English wants out we could maybe work something around Pitto and a pick swap for Weightman.

 

[Coops93]

At that point we'd be better off just playing Kemp on-ball. Has shown he can turn on the jets and take territory, he's no worse a kick than Smith, and he's got him for height.

If we want to try and pillage the Dogs, better for us to look at the quality players Bevo keeps leaving out like Bailey Dale and Caleb Daniel. They're rebounding defenders, which we're nominally pretty well set for, but there's no reason we can't recruit someone like Dale and then push Williams into a forward half role a full season after his return from the ACL.

I don't see why Caleb Daniel couldn't be repurposed as a high half forward either.

The other approach would be to get in Cody Weightman's ear and see if he wants to jump ship before Bevo runs them aground. Contracted for next season, so they'll hold the whip hand, but if English wants out we could maybe work something around Pitto and a pick swap for Weightman.

At that point you're talking about a 3rd tall defender playing mid vs an actual AFL mid. Kemp supposedly had scope when we drafted to play mid but since doing his knee that's been shelved.

Don't mind the Weightman call, I think he's one they'd want to hold on to tightly but if we could wriggle him out that'd be amazing.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

If im trying to poach anyone from the Dogs its Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

. Send Boyd, Williams or Dale to half forward and have the others down back.

Close to the best kick in the comp at his best and has great wheels... Bevo lost his marbles playing him as a sub.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We would do Kemp for Smith in a heartbeat.

It just wouldn't happen.

 

[Blue__Balls]

At that point you're talking about a 3rd tall defender playing mid vs an actual AFL mid. Kemp supposedly had scope when we drafted to play mid but since doing his knee that's been shelved.

Don't mind the Weightman call, I think he's one they'd want to hold on to tightly but if we could wriggle him out that'd be amazing.

I'm not sure it's been shelved because of the ACL - I think it's more likely that was the gap on our list that needed filling (tall-ish defender) and he meets the brief.

If we were going to trade him for Smith - we're down that defender that we need but up a midfielder, then I simply think we're better off just moving Kemp on-ball. Saves the money we'd have to stump up for Smith, saves the hassle of bringing in a player with questionable off-field conduct. And as you said, Smith has been well down on form, so I don't think there's any greater risk in hoping Kemp can adapt and thrive in the role vs. hoping Smith can get his shit together and play some class football again.

Use the money saved to bring in an actual key defender.

If we trade Kemp for Smith, we're down a key(ish) defender, we're down probably $500k a year, and we're up a suspect midfielder who may or may not fulfil his potential. In that scenario, where are we getting an AFL-grade key defender to backfill the spot?

If we want to take a ruthless approach this year, these are the moves I'd be looking at:

- Delist or trade Cunners, Marchbank and Martin.
- Trade Kennedy and Pittonet.
- Chase Hayward (free agent) and Dale.
- Move Kemp to a role splitting time wing and on-ball with Walsh, move Williams to high half forward.
- Find a cheap, young key defender (don't mind the look of Harry Edwards at WC - 23yo, 200cm, covers the ground well, plays a physical game....out of contract).

Newman, Weitering, [Edwards?]
Saad, McGovern, Dale
Acres, Cripps, Kemp
TDK, Cerra, Walsh
Williams, Curnow, Hayward
Motlop, McKay, Fogarty
I/C: Boyd, [Hewett/Docherty/Carroll], [E. Hollands/Cottrell/JSOS], [Owies/Durdin/Fantasia]

That feels more balanced with a reasonable bit of depth in the mid, half forward and forward rotation spots.

 

[BlueJet]

It's doubtful we're looking to pay a premium in terms of assets & salary for arguably one of the most overhyped players in the comp coming off a serious knee injury.
If we pursue a mid, I'd want one that hits the scoreboard, which for someone with a tendency to run forward, Smith doesn't really (career average is the same as Walsh & marginally ahead if Cerra).

 

[Arr0w]

It's been said by many, for a long while now.

We can't continue to retain so many injury prone players and while no one has their papers stamped, the pile would have commenced

The names are clear, just a matter of which names are first

 

[BluStreak]

I dont mind the play Kemp forward idea, he has the leap, can lead and easily play the 3rd forward role.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

JUH is the Dogs guy I’d chase.

Charlie and Harry along with JUH would have us as the most dangerous forward line talls for the next 8 or so years