List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[Arr0w]

I actually dont see them pushing too hard for picks and think they will be happy to get the money off the books, unless you’re talking about paying a significant amount.

They have plenty of coin

What would you be comfortable the club offering up for Gov?

I wouldn't offer more than an early 2nd ( worth more than that), on the proviso we address a couple of list holes

It's a fallacy that we have a poor list, 2-3 would improve our list dramatically

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Half the player but I'd rather just try and recruit Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

from the Stains. He's decent enough as a 2nd KPD even if he has some flaws. Been on the outer and doesn't play with the same timidness that Young does

Be cheap as chips, OOC too

 

[Soapy V]

He has been really solid and durable this year and i wonder how a person would feel not having to get on a plane every second week.

I actually dont think he will cost much in picks at all but mostly just $$$$ and then it will depend if he’s happy to spread it over another year or so.

As you’ve mentioned, options are limited.

Makes no sense to me. Picks and SC money are gold and will restrict other deals. His last 4 years have produced 12, 15, 10 & 9 games. He's 33 at start of next season.

If we make 8-10 changes minimum this year (my expectations) it restricts us

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Key defenders are extremely valuable as we saw last year with the McKay and Esava deals. Barras is much better than both of them. He will command $1m per season salary which we probably cannot afford. He is under contact so West Coast will rightly ask for two first round picks for him which we would probably be unwilling to give up. Other clubs are better placed to get the deal done.

If we are going to get a ready made key defender then Jeremy McGovern seems more gettable. He won’t cost top dollar in terms of salary or trade assets to get him. He comes with risk but if he can be good for a couple years then that is what we need. We probably need to draft a a key defender like O’Farrell as well so there is a succession plan.

Either way IMO it’s a massive fail by Austen that this has not been addressed sooner. We’ve been short down back ever since Jones left. We really should have been in Ben McKay’s ear from that moment. We missed Gibcus to get Cerra, which we had to do to bolster the midfield. We then overlooked Busslinger for Hollands the year which I felt was a mistake at the time. Relying on Marchbank and Kemp was lunacy.

When Jones retired we had already committed to Cerra. We did go and get Durdin and Young.
When we took Hollands, Young was tracking really well for a 23 year old and we desperately lacked outside run.

Last year was the season we needed to make a move but we just came off a preliminary final which we were up by 5 goals. No side could really score against us either so I can see why they didn’t make huge changes by cutting deep to bring in another big name like McKay. I mean if we could afford McKay last year we can afford Barrass now so go get him, problem is I don’t think that we can.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Half the player but I'd rather just try and recruit Dougal Howard from the Stains. He's decent enough as a 2nd KPD even if he has some flaws. Been on the outer and doesn't play with the same timidness that Young does

Be cheap as chips, OOC too

McDonald and Howard are the two I hope we look at. Howard if he wants to try and have some success, as you say should come very cheap.

 

[Arr0w]

We will make 7-9 changes like every year, like most sides. No insight needed in that regard

The interesting part will be which names, most are a no brainer

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Ben McKay would have made a MASSIVE difference to us and enabled Weiterbot to Play CHB Intercept.
No chance we could have afforded him, nor that he & Harry would play well together though...

H and Ben play in completely different parts of the ground, doubt playing in the same team would have affected either of them.

Would have been perfect for us, but the scum offered wayyyy overs in salary for his output.

Guess that’s a prelude to trying to get Barrass, will just cost too much in trade firstly and the cash needed would be too much for what we can afford


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[DangerousD]

I would love Bergman. What we need off HB

Need two picks inside Top 20. We really need genuine top end talent coming through. We have little at the moment

KPD is a must. We are killing Weitering and he needs help

We need run and skills

This list management chat reminds me of a few things Peggy O’Neil and Gale said at the end of 2016, there was lots of talk about the team not being old enough and they ended up coming out and saying, we are going all in on this group and we wont worry about the draft.

That’s paraphrasing a little.

They then went out and Got Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis, three great players, who filled a need for them.

I agree that we dont have much youth coming through and its a bit of a concern but what if we went all in on established players to fill our holes and just relied on the campo twins, the two NGA players and Walker the year after?

My issue with going to the drafts with two picks in the teens is, what’s the lilyhood of the two kids we pick up, having any meaningful impact on us winning a premiership the next two years? If one is a KPD as we desperately need, id say they’d have no impact.

If we are in our window now, i see trading our first pick this year and even next years for proven established players that fill a need as giving us a much better chance of success than going to the draft.

You still add kids through the draft but just not at the top end.

 

[DangerousD]

It's a fallacy that we have a poor list, 2-3 would improve our list dramatically

Totally agree, i think the list is really good, with a few weak spots, like most sides, i do though feel we aren’t being coached well.

Adding 2-3 players who were best 22 would make a massive difference but not if we trade out 2-3 players who are just on the outer.

Last year we brought in Hollands and Fantasia and lost Fisher and Dow, that’s not an improvement to me and if it was, its real small.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

This list management chat reminds me of a few things Peggy O’Neil and Gale said at the end of 2016, there was lots of talk about the team not being old enough and they ended up coming out and saying, we are going all in on this group and we wont worry about the draft.

That’s paraphrasing a little.

They then went out and Got Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis, three great players, who filled a need for them.

I agree that we dont have much youth coming through and its a bit of a concern but what if we went all in on established players to fill our holes and just relied on the campo twins, the two NGA players and Walker the year after?

My issue with going to the drafts with two picks in the teens is, what’s the lilyhood of the two kids we pick up, having any meaningful impact on us winning a premiership the next two years? If one is a KPD as we desperately need, id say they’d have no impact.

If we are in our window now, i see trading our first pick this year and even next years for proven established players that fill a need as giving us a much better chance of success than going to the draft.

You still add kids through the draft but just not at the top end.

The idea since the start of the rebuild has been sustained success, like Geelong, Collingwood & Sydney - if they're staying true to that then I'd imagine we will keep investing in the draft.

If they want to pivot and go all in for a flag, I wouldn't be against it.

No point being thereabouts forever, gotta win 1 (or 3) while you're good.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Totally agree, i think the list is really good, with a few weak spots, like most sides, i do though feel we aren’t being coached well.

Adding 2-3 players who were best 22 would make a massive difference but not if we trade out 2-3 players who are just on the outer.

Last year we brought in Hollands and Fantasia and lost Fisher and Dow, that’s not an improvement to me and if it was, its real small.

Geez, really?

Dow & Fisher weren't best 22, they also had 5+ years in the system and were never going to come good.

E Hollands looks like a 10+ year player with AA potential, he's made us better and will continue to do so. Ignoring the Fantasia part who is just depth, it's a huge improvement.

 

[gbatman]

One of the big list issues we have is the amount of long term development players. Mirkov, Akuei, Monahan, Lemmy, O'Keeffe, Moir. With the likelihood of another Irishman and a heap of kids coming in next season.

Why don't we recruit these types to our VFL list? I could not see any other clubs pinching any of them.

Bringing players onto the list who are 3-4 years away from being considered for senior selection. Isn't that a little dumb?

I think these sorts should have to play one year at least as a VFL listed player before we look at drafting them.

Looking at that list. We have made some pretty ordinary list management decisions IMO.

This along with our always injured group. We have huge lists of unavailable players week in week out.

List sizes aren't big enough to carry a heap of long term development players. I thought this is part of what having our own VFL side was supposed to be about.

 

[katmanblue]

When you're hindered and out of form your decision making is effected. We know Walshy's best is elite, just need to get him back to it.

Calling for the ball when you are out of position and about to be tackled isn't because of injury.

On SM-F946B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[DangerousD]

The idea since the start of the rebuild has been sustained success, like Geelong, Collingwood & Sydney - if they're staying true to that then I'd imagine we will keep investing in the draft.

If they want to pivot and go all in for a flag, I wouldn't be against it.

No point being thereabouts forever, gotta win 1 (or 3) while you're good.

Let’s use Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood as examples. These teams when in the window have thrown heaps at getting a premiership.

Geelong regularly brought in experienced players atv the expense of youth, they lost Jordan Clark over it, their success was sustained by trading to fill gaps.

Collingwood traded two big name players in the two years before their flag but also filled holes by bringing in Mitchell, Hill, Mcstay, Frampton and this year Schultz.

Sydney are top but are struggling, last trade period added Grundy who’s been huge and Adam’s who’s played 16 games and added Jordan who’s played 20 games.

 

[DangerousD]

Geez, really?

Dow & Fisher weren't best 22, they also had 5+ years in the system and were never going to come good.

E Hollands looks like a 10+ year player with AA potential, he's made us better and will continue to do so. Ignoring the Fantasia part who is just depth, it's a huge improvement.

Yes of course really. Each week there’s 23 players who go out and play, Hollands is no doubt better than Fisher and Dow and improves the best 23 but losing the other two makes the 23-28 worse.

To me, Fisher and Dow are both better than Carrol and Fantasia, so whenever we have had to play Carrol, Fantasia, Binns the team has been worse than what it could.

You need a good squad to win a premiership, if you continue to trade away your players in the 18-24 then the team will struggle. Im a big believer on teams success is determined by the quality of their bottom 6, we traded players last year who played 22 games between them.

This isn’t about Hollands being a good pick up, he is, this is about trading depth players and as a whole being worse off.

 

[Soapy V]

Totally agree, i think the list is really good, with a few weak spots, like most sides, i do though feel we aren’t being coached well.

Adding 2-3 players who were best 22 would make a massive difference but not if we trade out 2-3 players who are just on the outer.

Last year we brought in Hollands and Fantasia and lost Fisher and Dow, that’s not an improvement to me and if it was, its real small.

Couldn't disagree more.

Injuries have exposed us. Our list falls away badly if we lose a few players

 

[Soapy V]

One of the big list issues we have is the amount of long term development players. Mirkov, Akuei, Monahan, Lemmy, O'Keeffe, Moir. With the likelihood of another Irishman and a heap of kids coming in next season.

Why don't we recruit these types to our VFL list? I could not see any other clubs pinching any of them.

Bringing players onto the list who are 3-4 years away from being considered for senior selection. Isn't that a little dumb?

I think these sorts should have to play one year at least as a VFL listed player before we look at drafting them.

Looking at that list. We have made some pretty ordinary list management decisions IMO.

This along with our always injured group. We have huge lists of unavailable players week in week out.

List sizes aren't big enough to carry a heap of long term development players. I thought this is part of what having our own VFL side was supposed to be about.

100% agree.

You can add M.Carroll to that list

When you add these names to names like J.Carroll Binns Young S.Durdin C.Durdin that either haven't stepped up or simply aren't good enough (or are at best role players) our list looks very very fragile.

TDK goes down and next in is Pittonet. What if he is injured? Mirkov
If Weitering goes down next in is Young
Who replaces one of Charlie or Harry if needed?
What if Cripps goes down?

In a lot of ways we haven't really suffered major injury set backs to our A grade players and when we do it really shows

i don't expect the same standard but IMO the drop off is stark

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Yes of course really. Each week there’s 23 players who go out and play, Hollands is no doubt better than Fisher and Dow and improves the best 23 but losing the other two makes the 23-28 worse.

To me, Fisher and Dow are both better than Carrol and Fantasia, so whenever we have had to play Carrol, Fantasia, Binns the team has been worse than what it could.

You need a good squad to win a premiership, if you continue to trade away your players in the 18-24 then the team will struggle. Im a big believer on teams success is determined by the quality of their bottom 6, we traded players last year who played 22 games between them.

This isn’t about Hollands being a good pick up, he is, this is about trading depth players and as a whole being worse off.

It's the trade-off for being a good team.

Your 23-30 players are probably best 22 at 14 other clubs and they can be obtained cheaply due to a perceived low value in the market. Every successful club has had to deal with this and it's pretty unavoidable - North & St Kilda offered them contracts & game time we couldn't match, what are we to do?

It's up to the club to draft, trade and manage their way around it.

Once you're a top 4 club it's difficult to improve every year, that's equalization for you.

 

[Soapy V]

Let’s use Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood as examples. These teams when in the window have thrown heaps at getting a premiership.

Geelong regularly brought in experienced players atv the expense of youth, they lost Jordan Clark over it, their success was sustained by trading to fill gaps.

Collingwood traded two big name players in the two years before their flag but also filled holes by bringing in Mitchell, Hill, Mcstay, Frampton and this year Schultz.

Sydney are top but are struggling, last trade period added Grundy who’s been huge and Adam’s who’s played 16 games and added Jordan who’s played 20 games.

Difference is they had already recruited their younger talent and it was developing

Cats ability to recruit players from anywhere that step up is amazing. Clark was turned into Toby Conway (Looks good) & Phoenix Foster

Swans have drafted Warner, Gulden, Campbell, McDonald, Rowbottom etc all ready to step up. The mature additions are cream or filling a gap

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Couldn't disagree more.

Injuries have exposed us. Our list falls away badly if we lose a few players

Yep, best thing to happen to our list is to remove the perennially injured and the phys edders who constantly fail at their jobs.

Then either back Young or find someone to back in trades, and go to the draft…liking the sound of Berry, sounds like a Zac Bailey type we desperately need


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Blue__Balls]

One of the big list issues we have is the amount of long term development players. Mirkov, Akuei, Monahan, Lemmy, O'Keeffe, Moir. With the likelihood of another Irishman and a heap of kids coming in next season.

Why don't we recruit these types to our VFL list? I could not see any other clubs pinching any of them.

Bringing players onto the list who are 3-4 years away from being considered for senior selection. Isn't that a little dumb?

I think these sorts should have to play one year at least as a VFL listed player before we look at drafting them.

Looking at that list. We have made some pretty ordinary list management decisions IMO.

This along with our always injured group. We have huge lists of unavailable players week in week out.

List sizes aren't big enough to carry a heap of long term development players. I thought this is part of what having our own VFL side was supposed to be about.

Don't think Cat B rookies are a concern on this front - they occupy spots on an entirely different list. Akuei and Monahan aren't taking up spots that could have gone to immediate impact types.

Lemmey as a KPF is the type that should be a long term list project, he's behind two Coleman medalists in their prime, so even if he was developing quickly he'd still be no more than injury cover. While he may not have been picked up by another club, if we just signed him as a VFL player and he started to show good signs, we'd then end up fighting other clubs for the rights to him in a later draft year and potentially losing him altogether. Happy enough to have speculated with a late pick and put some work into him.

I don't think Moir is 3-4 years away from consideration. It's 100% down to effort and attitude. If he displays it then his talent is sufficient to be playing now.

The only issue I see with your list is the two spots occupied by developing ruckmen, when we already have two mature bodies duking it out for the starting gig. Start of 2022 we extended Mirkov to the end of 2024. Then at the beginning of 2023 (SSP) we signed O'Keeffe. I suspect the O'Keeffe signing was due to uncertainty about whether we'd be able to retain TDK at the end of 2023. But the error was in giving Mirkov a 2-year extension instead of signing him til the end of 2023 only, would very likely have been able to extend him last year if we'd felt it was warranted, but would also have had the option to cut him at the end of last year and free up another list spot for a DFA, mature age recruit, or draftee in a position of greater need.

TL/DR - Akuei and Monahan not an LM error, they're Cat B rookies outside the main list. Lemmey is the right type of long term project. Moir is not a long term project, he's a speculative pick who we should be able to make a call on within 2-3 years. Mirkov plus O'Keeffe is an overinvestment in the ruck division, should have cut Mirkov last year.

 

[Arr0w]

Totally agree, i think the list is really good, with a few weak spots, like most sides, i do though feel we aren’t being coached well.

People flip pretty quickly, with win/loss analysis

Adding 2-3 players who were best 22 would make a massive difference but not if we trade out 2-3 players who are just on the outer.

It will be the injury prone

Last year we brought in Hollands and Fantasia and lost Fisher and Dow, that’s not an improvement to me and if it was, its real small.

It was an improvement

Fisher and Dow would be backups, in Dow's case, he can't cement a spot in a bottom 6 team

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

He has been really solid and durable this year and i wonder how a person would feel not having to get on a plane every second week.

I actually dont think he will cost much in picks at all but mostly just $$$$ and then it will depend if he’s happy to spread it over another year or so.

As you’ve mentioned, options are limited.

Eagles would jump at a deal - we pay $650k, they pay $350k?

Would prefer Barrass but Jeremy is still a damn good player.

 

[Arr0w]

Let’s use Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood as examples. These teams when in the window have thrown heaps at getting a premiership.

Geelong regularly brought in experienced players atv the expense of youth, they lost Jordan Clark over it, their success was sustained by trading to fill gaps.

Collingwood traded two big name players in the two years before their flag but also filled holes by bringing in Mitchell, Hill, Mcstay, Frampton and this year Schultz.

Sydney are top but are struggling, last trade period added Grundy who’s been huge and Adam’s who’s played 16 games and added Jordan who’s played 20 games.

We will likely do the same over the next 3 years

 

[Crippa#9]

McDonald and Howard are the two I hope we look at. Howard if he wants to try and have some success, as you say should come very cheap.

McDonald is an absolute butcher. He'll be 32 next month. Barely an upgrade on Young

Howard's had multiple hamstring injuries over the last 12 months.

I like spitballing players but not these two I'm afraid.