List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Nathan Barley]

I look forward to it!


I don't see how any of your recent comments have been constructive. Pot, meet kettle.

Don’t agree with me. Not constructive

 

[Tassie4ever]

I think we are lacking pace through the midfield, none of our midfield regulars are noted speed demons and neither are Levi Ashcroft or Sam Marshall, not sure on Daniel Annable's pace or lack thereof.

I can not see a solution to it over the next few years.

As the game v GWS showed when we were destroyed by one very speedy small we need a real injection of pace pace pace.

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[Johnny Bananas]

Don’t agree with me. Not constructive

I see you don't know what the word constructive means. That's okay, just don't pretend you do. You give people absolutely nothing to work with beyond a curt dismissal.

 

[mpal6]

This is a bit of a left field idea, and I don't expect most people to agree. If the following are all true:

1. We can't count on Payne to stay fit
2. Finding another good mature KPD is difficult
3. Our biggest hindrance right now is poor goalkicking

Then, could we be better off sending Hipwood to defence full-time and signing a player who is a very accurate kick for goal? I'm aware Gardiner will return and be able to cover for Payne, but I don't know if he's a premiership quality KPD, especially coming back from an ACL. And we really, really need someone who won't miss easy goals from 20m out, directly in front. It's killing us.

As to who is a very accurate kick, there have already been whispers that we're into Darcy Fogarty (OOC 2025), who has kicked 41.16 this year. A cheaper option would be Tim Membrey (UFA 2024), who has kicked 28.9 this season. Or if we're willing to take a flier on someone in the VFL (should the list spots be available), Liam McMahon from Carlton's VFL team is 198cm, 22 years old and has kicked 43.13 this season (including 7.0 against Geelong last week).

For comparison, Joe has kicked 49.42, Charlie 34.25, Hipwood 29.19, Rayner 25.17 and Kai 24.23 so far this year.

Yep, I really like this idea. Hipwood is in the books till 2029 and we could make a strong pairing with Andrews. This way there is less reliance on Payne/Joyce and they can come in to play third tall whenever needed. Lester can do the medium defender playing on mid-sized forwards or smalls.

I believe it also opens up a spot for someone like Luke Lloyd, who was an accurate kick during draft year. Daniher, Morris, Lloyd might be a bit green/undersized but if we can't get anyone mature - I won't be averse to trying the next draftee. Hipwood can swing forward during games and we can hopefully swap Lloyd or Morris with him.

On a similar vein, I'd look at our small defenders - both lockdown and rebound. We need more pace than what we have currently. I'd look at making Wilmot the backline general, play both Brain and Beecken for rebound. We need runners who can go for a gallop towards wing and kick long. Zorko should be sub next year and hopefully Kiddy comes back.

 

[Nathan Barley]

2 losses and somehow Hipwood didn't play terribly down back against the Suns???

 

[mpal6]

2 losses and somehow Hipwood didn't play terribly down back against the Suns???

With zero backline exposure, he did what he can on that round. But you give him one pre-season down there with Andrews in tow, he'll be a much better player.

Or here's the alternate - don't do anything, don't make even any positional changes and pray for a miracle in 2025. Good luck with that one.

 

[Nathan Barley]

With zero backline exposure, he did what he can on that round. But you give him one pre-season down there with Andrews in tow, he'll be a much better player.

Or here's the alternate - don't do anything, don't make even any positional changes and pray for a miracle in 2025. Good luck with that one.

Am I the only one who thinks we've defended well this year. Top 2-3 for points against, significantly better than last year.

Plus we have Doedee, Dizzy and Kiddy back and hopefully an in form McKenna

We could also focus on what went well this year and Hipwood was a big part of us winning 9 in a row

 

[Squizz89]

With zero backline exposure, he did what he can on that round.
But you give him one pre-season down there with Andrews in tow, he'll be a much better player.

The problem with moving Eric down back is we have literally no key forward depth, so we’d be exposing that even more.

I think Smith will be a solid ruck who can push forward, whilst Logan / Lloyd strike me more as the third tall type. I can’t see Ryan making it at all.

I actually think our key forward depth is worse than our key backs, it’s just this year we’ve struck out in the key back area, whilst until recently (touch wood) Joe and Eric have been pretty durable, so we haven’t needed anyone else to play their role.

It’s for this reason I hope we have someone lined up in the next year or two to take over from Joe.

 

[BRAB]

With zero backline exposure, he did what he can on that round. But you give him one pre-season down there with Andrews in tow, he'll be a much better player.

Or here's the alternate - don't do anything, don't make even any positional changes and pray for a miracle in 2025. Good luck with that one.

I’d back us in to get 2 of Payne, Gardiner and Doedee right next year.

Think that is a bit easier than Hippy reinventing himself as a defender.

 

[pod17]

Let’s offer the Tigers something for Mansell. Giants brought in some pace with Bedford, we need something similar. Watching the pacey players spread us week in, week out needs to be addressed.

 

[martinson]

I’d back us in to get 2 of Payne, Gardiner and Doedee right next year.

Think that is a bit easier than Hippy reinventing himself as a defender.

Fairly sure KPD has been identified as a need for us . And KPP's in general.

I'd be really surprised if Dizz or Doedee made it back in time to have much impact next year seeing half the year will be over before they're ready ,that's before you worry about what shape they're in.

I've got not much confidence we can get Payne's foot right until I see him come out and do something , but we should know more about that this year at least.

 

[Knight82]

It definitely couldn't hurt to add some more speed to the squad around the ground - even more so in the midfield.
My pet project though with our team (well any sporting team really) - would be some sort of mental awareness/mindfulness coach. At times our players seem to lack awareness or mindfulness of their surroundings (I do understand that the footy field is a busy place in the thick of the game)

The thing is that you see the great teams maintain mindfulness and awareness of their surroundings and their teammates in the thick of the action. Less selfish behaviours and more selflessness behaviours to make everyone succeed.

Apologies for drifting from the topic of "List Management" - but mindfulness/awareness is my number one pet peeve with any AFL team when I watch it on the TV.

 

[RoyBoy17]

Key position depth important but I still think that high half forward role is critical for us. Our options are all similar in that they aren’t great with defensive pressure and get a bit lost coming up at stoppage.

A Neal-Bullen or Brent Daniels

16

Brent Daniels

Age

26

Ht

172cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.4

3star

D

10.3

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

1.9

2star

T

1.9

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

9.0

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.8

4star

type. Running machines that can tackle but have good forward craft.

Levi will probably start in this role.

 

[Nunez]

Key position depth important but I still think that high half forward role is critical for us. Our options are all similar in that they aren’t great with defensive pressure and get a bit lost coming up at stoppage.

A Neal-Bullen or Brent Daniels type. Running machines that can tackle but have good forward craft.

Levi will probably start in this role.

Levi IS that guy.

 

[Elixuh]

We are going to be better for it in terms of depth next year, but hopefully we won't have to rely on so much of it all at once next season. It'd be better in bits here and there rather than having to roll it out basically the entire season. We think of Jaspa and Wilmott as being core senior players because of how quickly they've come on but they're our youf. And if you surround them with a lot of other youf and fringe players it becomes harder and harder for everyone.

 

[Perrip]

Ridiculous trade now in hindsight, even if we did return Gunston.

Can't do much about it. Gunston wanted out and didn't like our style of footy.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah, I’m saying about bringing Ryan in, not keeping Gunston. He wanted out, fair enough, but just trade him out, not for some bog average park player who is now occupying a list spot for 3 years.

A bit like Fullerton at Melbourne. Don’t bring in guys when no one rates them which it’s pretty evident we don’t with Ryan.

The club did rate him.

Not sure whether he's not come on as hoped or the role hasn't worked yet, but the club absolutely was keen on him as a prospect and was chuffed at being able to extract him in the Gunston trade.

 

[Nunez]

The club did rate him.

Not sure whether he's not come on as hoped or the role hasn't worked yet, but the club absolutely was keen on him as a prospect and was chuffed at being able to extract him in the Gunston trade.

Also probably didn't factor in Logan Morris being the future .

 

[M Malice]

The club did rate him.

Not sure whether he's not come on as hoped or the role hasn't worked yet, but the club absolutely was keen on him as a prospect and was chuffed at being able to extract him in the Gunston trade.

Brandon to my eyes looks way too slow to be a decent AFL level footballer, he has the turning circle of the Titanic.

 

[mpal6]

Yeah, I’m saying about bringing Ryan in, not keeping Gunston. He wanted out, fair enough, but just trade him out, not for some bog average park player who is now occupying a list spot for 3 years.

A bit like Fullerton at Melbourne. Don’t bring in guys when no one rates them which it’s pretty evident we don’t with Ryan.

He's 200cm/91kg. I'd ask him to stack up as much weight as possible this off season so he can be either a depth KPD or ruck. It doesn't hurt if he's needed in forward line either at some point. But attempting to be third tall with similar lanky build of Daniher and Hipwood is not going to help him establish himself. Morris has it down pat already and I believe Morris will also be trying to build some muscle this off season to become that bigger frame forward.

 

[dlanod]

Also probably didn't factor in Logan Morris being the future .

He also wasn't on our list at the time.

Trade period was pre-draft, we needed KPF depth, and yeah, we felt Ryan was a decent prospect with a mature body.

Then we ended up having the cards fall for us in the draft and loaded up on talls, and when we actually need to call on our KPF depth for the first time in a while one of those came in in his first year and basically made himself indispensable. It's a bit like complaining that you've been saving for a rainy day and then happen to win the lottery on your way to spend your savings.

 

[StevoJenkins]

If we don’t win a final do we still hang onto Lester and Zorko?

Yes, Zorko has been a godsend in a season where our backline depth has been tested. When Kiddy comes back, fully expect Zorko to make his way back to the forward line and still kick goals better than half the team.

Lester is a known commodity and will be kept for another year. He's the only tall back that can stay on the park this year.

I think we are lacking pace through the midfield, none of our midfield regulars are noted speed demons and neither are Levi Ashcroft or Sam Marshall, not sure on Daniel Annable's pace or lack thereof.

I can not see a solution to it over the next few years.

Problem isn't the midfield this year, it's been the goal kicking. Cost us early in the year, costing us the past two games. When you're missing directly in front, you're giving up games.

 

[mpal6]

I think we are lacking pace through the midfield, none of our midfield regulars are noted speed demons and neither are Levi Ashcroft or Sam Marshall, not sure on Daniel Annable's pace or lack thereof.

I can not see a solution to it over the next few years.

If we have the right number of defensive mids in the middle, pace may not be that big a factor in my view.

Berry / Dunkley stopped Butters and Horn-Francis when we had that big game against Port. I understand the eagerness to give Ashcroft his midfield minutes but we're having too many ball winning, silky players in the middle now. Ashcroft, Neale, McCluggage is too many of the same type, none of them provide the defensive grunt of Berry and Dunkley.

Berry should've played on Tom Greene last round. Similarly Berry should've played inside against Collingwood this round. We keep screwing around with trying to fit all the silky players in the middle - we will get our asses handed to us every single round.

Whoever in matchday tactics is deciding McCluggage + Ashcroft is our formula for success needs to be shown how Berry was crucial to us during the 9 game run. We had our best game with Berry doing defensive work on port mids.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yes, Zorko has been a godsend in a season where our backline depth has been tested. When Kiddy comes back, fully expect Zorko to make his way back to the forward line and still kick goals better than half the team.

Lester is a known commodity and will be kept for another year. He's the only tall back that can stay on the park this year.



Problem isn't the midfield this year, it's been the goal kicking. Cost us early in the year, costing us the past two games. When you're missing directly in front, you're giving up games.

Zorko is possibly our worst set shot

 

[StevoJenkins]

Zorko is possibly our worst set shot

Can't be any worse than Charlie within 20-30 metres right now.