List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Saucery]

Charlie averaged 3.4 shots per game last year - his lowest total since 2020 but still a very very good number. Really think most of the issue was accuracy. Hopefully he comes in refreshed and bumps it up a bit to get back to his best.

EDIT - checked Charlie's raw (i.e. not expected) accuracy and it was at 48%. He's consistently been well above 50% accuracy in his time with us.

So perhaps he was getting the ball further up the ground, in his new more defensive roll, than his old running back towards goals days? He has himself said he has needed to change his game to become more defensive recently.

Cause and effect.

All I am saying is that knowing Linc is around doing the more defensive work should free him up to be more creative and be closer to goal, like the Charlie of old.

Don't underestimate the value of Linc to our forward line, if fit he is in for me.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Jamarra always feels like the next Buddy for Sydney. Expecting him to move to Harbour city as part of next contract.

Sydney didn't even explore landing a Key Forward this year via draft or trade.

Kind of ironic when Sydney tried to make Naughton the next Buddy, which is what led to the Bulldogs giving him an absurdly long contract.

 

[Section 5]

Charlie averaged 3.4 shots per game last year - his lowest total since 2020 but still a very very good number. Really think most of the issue was accuracy. Hopefully he comes in refreshed and bumps it up a bit to get back to his best.

EDIT - checked Charlie's raw (i.e. not expected) accuracy and it was at 48%. He's consistently been well above 50% accuracy in his time with us.

You could see his goal kicking confidence was not their last year starting from the early rounds
Indecision on round the corner or basic shot, also missed some very easy goals.
We all probably just expect better, but he still had a good year apart from a few things.

He played all 27 games last year being a career high so that does inflate some of his stats.
Since joining the Lions
Most kicks in a season 230
Most marks in a season being the first time he passed the ton with 109.
Most I50's in a season with 67
Most uncontested possession in a season with 186
Most meters gained in a season with 5447
Second most effective disposals in a season with 173

Most turnovers in a season with 71
Most clangers in a season with 63

 

[Grasshopper17]

You could see his goal kicking confidence was not their last year starting from the early rounds
Indecision on round the corner or basic shot, also missed some very easy goals.
We all probably just expect better, but he still had a good year apart from a few things.

He played all 27 games last year being a career high so that does inflate some of his stats.
Since joining the Lions
Most kicks in a season 230
Most marks in a season being the first time he passed the ton with 109.
Most I50's in a season with 67
Most uncontested possession in a season with 186
Most meters gained in a season with 5447
Second most effective disposals in a season with 173

Most turnovers in a season with 71
Most clangers in a season with 63

It would be worth knowing whether they count kicking a behind as a turnover.

 

[Clarkythelion]

You could see his goal kicking confidence was not their last year starting from the early rounds
Indecision on round the corner or basic shot, also missed some very easy goals.
We all probably just expect better, but he still had a good year apart from a few things.

He played all 27 games last year being a career high so that does inflate some of his stats.
Since joining the Lions
Most kicks in a season 230
Most marks in a season being the first time he passed the ton with 109.
Most I50's in a season with 67
Most uncontested possession in a season with 186
Most meters gained in a season with 5447
Second most effective disposals in a season with 173

Most turnovers in a season with 71
Most clangers in a season with 63

What about set shot percentage compared to goals on the run? my perception, no data, was that Charlie when he went back and lined the shot up he missed it more than when he was on the run and it may have been his worst year for for set goals. Just a bit like a golfer that is missing, 'greens in regulation' with something slight that has developed in their swing I though Charlie's set shots were off.

 

[blueiris]

Being that Charlie worked more on he's pressure game will suit us well when he actually has a full Preseason this year

 

[Lazza16]

Sam Day - AFL & VFL 2024.

Wow, didn't kick one behind!

 

[mpal6]

Can Henry Smith step into the Joe role? I believe he's got "it" and just needs time and building confidence. (I didn't think that watching his debut but 2nd game showed some nice moments). I'll trust Max Gawn who said when interviewed before the Granny. " Henry Smith,he's not ready for the Grannie but..he's the next big thing!"

On moto g85 5G using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nah, he'll be a better ruck than forward in my view. He seems pretty switched on and able to release players with a quick handball in traffic. He doesn't seem to have the instinct to kick goals and tries to pass it off when seen forward so I'd put Big O forward and let Smith build on his primary skill which is the ruck craft.

 

[Dalions]

Nah, he'll be a better ruck than forward in my view. He seems pretty switched on and able to release players with a quick handball in traffic. He doesn't seem to have the instinct to kick goals and tries to pass it off when seen forward so I'd put Big O forward and let Smith build on his primary skill which is the ruck craft.

I think we are much more likely to ease Smith into the ruck duties.
So when O is fit I can still see him taking the bulk of the ruck duties and Smith as an extended chop out as we will also want to ease Oscar back in as well after his shoulder.

 

[Elixuh]

I think we are much more likely to ease Smith into the ruck duties.
So when O is fit I can still see him taking the bulk of the ruck duties and Smith as an extended chop out as we will also want to ease Oscar back in as well after his shoulder.

I wonder whether we will see more of Charlie in the ruck. I thought it was a winning move by crazy fages.

 

[martinson]

We've got enough to play with that we don't need to sweat too much over who rucks or how we're going to kick goals.

Daniher is a big loss for anybody but sometimes those sorts of losses open up opportunity for others who are quite capable of filling a slot.

Linc's a good player but he now has to somehow win his spot back, or fashion his game for a different role.

 

[Crusha]

Wow, didn't kick one behind! .........................(missing a sarcasm emoji)

Unfortunately, these clips were garnered from the Mini-Match highlights from 14 or 15 combined games in 2024. They generally only feature goals that are scored.
It would have been a big undertaking to peruse that number of full games from 2024, so I could make it "the good with the bad". ............ y'all would have had time to form a 2025 opinion before I managed to complete such a 2024 review.


(Insert Sarcasm Emoji .......+ ........)

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I think midfield is being replenished quickly and I was shocked at the level Ashcroft reached in finals. He was outdoing Neale and was pretty much our "follow me boys" leader in GWS final and Grand final. We'll have 2 Ashcrofts running around next year is an amazing feeling.

I agree entirely. Midfield is the least of our concerns. 2x Ashcroft, Fletcher, Marshall, Annable is an entire new midfield already, and then we have some good midfield prospects coming along in 2026 and 2027 too. No worries there.

My biggest worry is small forward. Just like Gun KPF, we lucked out with Charlie wanting to come here and produce consistent 50+ goal seasons year after year. It's hard to replicate and Kai Lohmann could potentially do it, but takes a lot to maintain the level that Charlie did for us.

To an extent I agree because it's a difficult position to get right. What gives me a little peace of mind is that we've been able to develop small forwards. Kai is the obvious one, but we've also made Charlie and Linc better players than they were when we got them, and developed Bailey. I have faith in the club to get it right there. If we had the list spots available we might have gone for Unwin, so we know the club have one eye on the next small forward.

It's KPPs that give me the most concern. Hard to understate how much Joe brought us to another level above the good but not great tall forwards we had. We've been blessed with good talls from the academy (Andrews, Hipwood, Payne) but there's no guarantee that continues, and talls take longer to develop. Both ZZ and Gallop are raw and no guarantee to develop into usable AFL players.

Henry Smith has to play next year and become our primary ruck by second half of the season. I believe Big O will do a half decent job playing deep forward/third tall ruck.

Remember Smith was drafted as a forward who could ruck. I'm not saying he won't become the primary ruck at senior level, but he does have some forward craft. The signs are good at least, I'm not concerned about him.

One of the things I hope to see next year is Linc return as the forward line general, mustering the troops and being the defensive small, allowing Charlie to go back to being less accountable but more creative.

I hope for that too, but there's the question of who he replaces in the 22. Joe has to be replaced with another forward/ruck unless we're playing Oscar the full game, so the two most expendable forwards are probably Ah Chee and Bailey. Ah Chee earned his place last season, and the coaches like Bailey, so it'll be tough.

 

[Gadzorks]

I wonder whether we will see more of Charlie in the ruck. I thought it was a winning move by crazy fages.

Love the Charlie joe interaction at the end of the clip.

 

[On the quiet]

I am not that keen on Allen or Lewis and i doubt Naughton is going anywhere.
Unless we lose a decent player, we won't have draft capital either.
Season 2026 is a long way off.
At some stage we may have to pass on a highly rated academy player to fill a void on our list.

Let's see how we go with Hipwood, Morris, Day, Smith, Doedee, Gardiner, Lloyd, Ryan, Gallop

Al things being equal in preseason, I hope the 22 that won the GF, plus Oscar, play Opening round against the Cats.

Moving forward, I do think in 2025, Smith will be given plenty of opportunity as our forward/ruck. I would be tempted to give Payne a run up forward during the preseason, but with his foot/leg issues would not be able to do too much rucking, so likely wont happen.

 

[knaf]

I hope for that too, but there's the question of who he replaces in the 22. Joe has to be replaced with another forward/ruck unless we're playing Oscar the full game, so the two most expendable forwards are probably Ah Chee and Bailey. Ah Chee earned his place last season, and the coaches like Bailey, so it'll be tough.

Hard to fault your logic. Lashcroft to come in as well as Oscar. If Ah Chee and or Bailey get pushed out of the best 23, other clubs will come very hard for them. Bailey would be the ideal addition to the Blues forward line. Ah Chee now a starting forward in just about every other team.

A good problem to have ie list depth. Bad problem to have given salary cap and good players wanting to have the opportunity to be regular best 23.

 

[Saucery]

I agree entirely. Midfield is the least of our concerns. 2x Ashcroft, Fletcher, Marshall, Annable is an entire new midfield already, and then we have some good midfield prospects coming along in 2026 and 2027 too. No worries there.


To an extent I agree because it's a difficult position to get right. What gives me a little peace of mind is that we've been able to develop small forwards. Kai is the obvious one, but we've also made Charlie and Linc better players than they were when we got them, and developed Bailey. I have faith in the club to get it right there. If we had the list spots available we might have gone for Unwin, so we know the club have one eye on the next small forward.

It's KPPs that give me the most concern. Hard to understate how much Joe brought us to another level above the good but not great tall forwards we had. We've been blessed with good talls from the academy (Andrews, Hipwood, Payne) but there's no guarantee that continues, and talls take longer to develop. Both ZZ and Gallop are raw and no guarantee to develop into usable AFL players.


Remember Smith was drafted as a forward who could ruck. I'm not saying he won't become the primary ruck at senior level, but he does have some forward craft. The signs are good at least, I'm not concerned about him.


I hope for that too, but there's the question of who he replaces in the 22. Joe has to be replaced with another forward/ruck unless we're playing Oscar the full game, so the two most expendable forwards are probably Ah Chee and Bailey. Ah Chee earned his place last season, and the coaches like Bailey, so it'll be tough.

Completely agree about Linc needing to push either Ah Chee or Bailey out, for mine it's Bailey as his best and worst are miles apart and he's the most erratic one. I guess I'm just a bit nostalgic (already lol) about how much freedom Charlie had when he didn't have to be the calm head up front and could go 'Full Charlie'!

 

[martinson]

Ah Chee is a gun. All he needed was a permanent spot in the same place and the self confidence.

Obviously a few people here are going to be surprised if he keeps doing it.

I love Linc but he's never done what Ah Chee did in big games. I don't see Bailey's spot in any question either. He was just coming good into the finals. Linc is 31 already coming off an ACL. Cal is 27 coming off a dominant finals series. I just don't get a lot of the comments here.

Our forward line is settled bar Daniher and injury.

I hear Fagan said Hipwood will still be recovering right up to the start of the season so we could see a surprise inclusion or two.

 

[Perrip]

I hear Fagan said Hipwood will still be recovering right up to the start of the season so we could see a surprise inclusion or two.

I assume that was at the Roar Deal last night? Very interesting insight

 

[mpal6]

Will Ashcroft stepping up big time in the middle has changed our options too. Suddenly there is no reliance on McCluggage to take over from Neale whenever he slows down. I feel between the 2 Ashcrofts and Dunkley we have elite mix in the coming years.

If McCluggage CBA drops a bit, I can see him taking his wing spot back again and push Fletcher out to sub replacing Mckenna. Fletcher might be the one on the fringe, he had good finals series but the season was a bit up n down.

Marshall and Annable would make things even more interesting in the coming years as they both fit the hard running wingman player profile of Fletcher.

 

[SRH17]

I assume that was at the Roar Deal last night? Very interesting insight

It was. Fages also said that Hippy played jabbed up for most of the back half of the season. He has a lot of time for Rick.

 

[Not a Psycho]

Will Ashcroft stepping up big time in the middle has changed our options too. Suddenly there is no reliance on McCluggage to take over from Neale whenever he slows down. I feel between the 2 Ashcrofts and Dunkley we have elite mix in the coming years.

If McCluggage CBA drops a bit, I can see him taking his wing spot back again and push Fletcher out to sub replacing Mckenna. Fletcher might be the one on the fringe, he had good finals series but the season was a bit up n down.

Marshall and Annable would make things even more interesting in the coming years as they both fit the hard running wingman player profile of Fletcher.

Fletcher was only in his second year, he's got a lot of improvement up his sleeve still.

 

[pod17]

Fletcher was only in his second year, he's got a lot of improvement up his sleeve still.

Agreed. He’s the one I’m tipping to take his game to the elite level next year. He looks a really natural wingman.

Great hands, good decision maker, runner etc. Watching back the Semi and Prelims in particular he did some incredible things beyond his years. Hard to see who comes out, but there’s no way Fletcher loses his place in the starting 22 - especially given the wing is an area where we were slightly vulnerable in 2023.

Injuries will play a part, but I’d say it would be more likely we’d roll a few people through the sub role depending on match ups and need to rest players etc next year as opposed to having a McKenna- like lock most weeks.

 

[davemc_lions]

From GF team
McKenna, Joe and Fort out
L Ashcroft, Oscar and Day probably in. Fletcher plays back more to cover McKenna.
Be interesting when Linc, Doedee and Kiddy get ready who drops out for them
You assume Linc comes in to free up Charlie to roam more as we lost Joe.. We need Dangerous Charlie back.. With Levi rumoured play forward Bailey need to be not so up and down to keep his spot.
I think AhChee a lock now. Rayner always was a lock.. Kai, Morris, Charlie and Hippy not going anywhere.
Doedee really depends on probably Paynes form/fitness.. Lester played so well.. Although who else could it be
If Kiddy comes back probably be Answerth again.
I do wonder with Kiddy and Zorko both of HB how it would work.

Yes great place to be with so many options.
Cannot see how Dizzy fits in starting line up now unless injury.

There is always someone who comes on more than people think over off season as well.

 

[lionshine]

From GF team
McKenna, Joe and Fort out
L Ashcroft, Oscar and Day probably in. Fletcher plays back more to cover McKenna.
Be interesting when Linc, Doedee and Kiddy get ready who drops out for them
You assume Linc comes in to free up Charlie to roam more as we lost Joe.. We need Dangerous Charlie back.. With Levi rumoured play forward Bailey need to be not so up and down to keep his spot.
I think AhChee a lock now. Rayner always was a lock.. Kai, Morris, Charlie and Hippy not going anywhere.
Doedee really depends on probably Paynes form/fitness.. Lester played so well.. Although who else could it be
If Kiddy comes back probably be Answerth again.
I do wonder with Kiddy and Zorko both of HB how it would work.

Yes great place to be with so many options.
Cannot see how Dizzy fits in starting line up now unless injury.

There is always someone who comes on more than people think over off season as well.

Yeah agree with your last sentence. Reville & Brain could improve further with another pre season. Beecken & McLachlan after an AFL pre-season as well. Competition for spots is going to be red hot I think.