List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Clarkythelion]

For me, I'm sticking with Tom De Konning barring Smith doesn't jump a level this year for us. I think he has more x factor than the others and has been a bit more 'fringe' than the others with a chance to be partially, even a little, disgruntled.

 

[blueiris]

For me, I'm sticking with Tom De Konning barring Smith doesn't jump a level this year for us. I think he has more x factor than the others and has been a bit more 'fringe' than the others with a chance to be partially, even a little, disgruntled.

TDK isn't a forward though

 

[Section 5]

Our list is finalized so which players with under 20 games get to play seniors footy on a regular basis.
It is a hard team to break into as fringe players can attest to.

Morris should retain his spot. Hopefully no 2nd year blues along with winning a premiership in your 19th AFL game.
Levi Ashcroft will most likely find a spot, but someone will have to miss out unless the AFL go to 5 on the bench.
Marshall could get a go early. Will be in front of Dev even if it is just to see how he performs at AFL level.
Henry Smith may get the nod over Day but i think his best chance is the AFL bring in 5 on the bench.
Hard to line the others up but i liked Reece Torrent improvement last year. He would need another form leap to make his case for a callup though.

Proven at AFL level: Reville, Brain.
Struggled at AFL level: Tunstill, Ryan.

Below list from footywire
Number - Name- Games Played - Age - Birth Date - Height - Weight - Previous Club - Position

 

[Grasshopper17]

Our list is finalized so which players with under 20 games get to play seniors footy on a regular basis.
It is a hard team to break into as fringe players can attest to.

Morris should retain his spot. Hopefully no 2nd year blues along with winning a premiership in your 19th AFL game.
Levi Ashcroft will most likely find a spot, but someone will have to miss out unless the AFL go to 5 on the bench.
Marshall could get a go early. Will be in front of Dev even if it is just to see how he performs at AFL level.
Henry Smith may get the nod over Day but i think his best chance is the AFL bring in 5 on the bench.
Hard to line the others up but i liked Reece Torrent improvement last year. He would need another form leap to make his case for a callup though.

Proven at AFL level: Reville, Brain.
Struggled at AFL level: Tunstill, Ryan.

Below list from footywire
Number - Name- Games Played - Age - Birth Date - Height - Weight - Previous Club - Position

View attachment 2176020

We're not going to see 5 on the bench in 2025. This has already been confirmed by the AFL.

 

[M Malice]

Our list is finalized so which players with under 20 games get to play seniors footy on a regular basis.
It is a hard team to break into as fringe players can attest to.

Morris should retain his spot. Hopefully no 2nd year blues along with winning a premiership in your 19th AFL game.
Levi Ashcroft will most likely find a spot, but someone will have to miss out unless the AFL go to 5 on the bench.
Marshall could get a go early. Will be in front of Dev even if it is just to see how he performs at AFL level.
Henry Smith may get the nod over Day but i think his best chance is the AFL bring in 5 on the bench.
Hard to line the others up but i liked Reece Torrent improvement last year. He would need another form leap to make his case for a callup though.

Proven at AFL level: Reville, Brain.
Struggled at AFL level: Tunstill, Ryan.

Below list from footywire
Number - Name- Games Played - Age - Birth Date - Height - Weight - Previous Club - Position

View attachment 2176020

I'm pretty much in agreement with you >

Logan Morris and Levi Ashcroft are the obvious two who are likely to play a lot of senior footy.

It will depend on injuries but of the others I am bullish on are Bruce Reville and Sam Marshall putting heat on nominal best 23 senior players.

I think that barring a significant injury toll in their area of the ground James Tunstill, Brandon Ryan, Darcy Craven, Luke Lloyd, Reece Torrent and Zane Zakostelsky are highly unlikely to play much senior footy if at all.

I am a fan of Will McLachlan, Shadeau Brain, Luke Beecken, Ty Gallop and Henry Smith getting a crack at some stage of the season and think they will and least show good glimpses.

 

[rye]

I’d have Allen, then daylight.

Naughton is a good contested mark and set shot for goal, but does sfa in any other part of the game. He’s lucky if makes 2 goals a season from open play. And if he doesn’t mark the ball, he’s a witches hat.

naughton is a horrible set shot.

i think his pressure for a tall isnt bad honestly.

 

[Section 5]

We're not going to see 5 on the bench in 2025. This has already been confirmed by the AFL.

Okay i did not know that.
Another stupid decision by the AFL

 

[blueiris]

Hagan is who we should chase

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'm pretty much in agreement with you >

Logan Morris and Levi Ashcroft are the obvious two who are likely to play a lot of senior footy.

It will depend on injuries but of the others I am bullish on are Bruce Reville and Sam Marshall putting heat on nominal best 23 senior players.

I think that barring a significant injury toll in their area of the ground James Tunstill, Brandon Ryan, Darcy Craven, Luke Lloyd, Reece Torrent and Zane Zakostelsky are highly unlikely to play much senior footy if at all.

I am a fan of Will McLachlan, Shadeau Brain, Luke Beecken, Ty Gallop and Henry Smith getting a crack at some stage of the season and think they will and least show good glimpses.

I like Gallop, but I don't see him making the senior team outside of an injury crisis. Young KPPs rarely demand a starting spot in a talented team right out of the gates. Morris is the exception, not the rule (and is a third tall rather than a pure KPP anyway).

I imagine Day and Smith would be the first two in line for Joe's spot, then whoever is most impressive in the VFL between Ryan and Gallop.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Hagan is who we should chase

He's only OOC in 2026. The Bulldogs would demand an absolute fortune for him if he's under contract. I think Naughton is much more disposable for them.

 

[blueiris]

He's only OOC in 2026. The Bulldogs would demand an absolute fortune for him if he's under contract. I think Naughton is much more disposable for them.

Naughton IS Meh I'd prefer Lewis over Naughton

 

[rye]

footscray arent trading naughton after signing him to the biggest contract in the afl

 

[M Malice]

Naughton IS Meh I'd prefer Lewis over Naughton

I really like Mitch Lewis as well, his question mark is his fragile body, IMO fully fit he is a very good key position forward.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I did a basic analysis of our list by position (midfielders, rucks, small/medium/tall forwards/defenders) to see how much depth we have in each position, to decide who among our out of contract players it's most important to keep. I've listed each player in their best position only. Of course some players can play in multiple positions, but I'll factor that in when addressing depth needs later.

I used the criteria of smalls being 184cm and below, mediums 185-194cm, talls 195cm and above. That does mean Logan Morris and Kai Lohmann are in the same category, but we have to draw lines somewhere.

In contract or incoming (41)
Small defenders - 6 (McKenna, Wilmot, Zorko, Coleman, Answerth, Brain)
Medium defenders - 3 (Starce, Lester, Doedee)
Tall defenders - 5 (Gardiner, Joyce, Andrews, Payne, ZZ)
Midfielders - 12 (Reville, Dev, Clug, Tunstill, Berry, Fletcher, Dunkley, Neale, Torrent, W Ashcroft, L Ashcroft, Marshall)
Pure rucks - 2 (Fort, Big O)
Small forwards - 4 (Ah Chee, Charlie, Linc, Bailey)
Medium forwards - 5 (Rayner, Kai, Morris, Lloyd, McLachlan)
Tall forwards and forward/rucks - 4 (Ryan, Hipwood, Smith, Day)

Out of contract (3)
Medium defenders - 2 (Prior, Beecken)
Small forwards - 1 (Craven)

I'd say the ideal 23 has a primary ruck, 7 defenders, and a total of 15 between midfielders and forwards, including a forward-ruck, so there's adequate depth to cover every part of the field. Let's go with 7 midfielders and 8 forwards.

As for the small/medium/tall split, in defence I'd say 3/2/2 offers maximum flexibility. With forwards, 3/3/2 will be the default at least until Linc is fit again, with either Smith or Day being the second tall after Hippy.

So looking at contracted players only, this is how much we have in depth at full strength:

Small defenders - 3 (covers 100% of best 23)
Medium defenders - 1 (50%)
Tall defenders - 3 (150%)
Midfielders - 5 (71%)
Pure rucks - 1 (100%)
Small forwards - 1 (33%)
Medium forwards - 2 (67%)
Tall forwards and forward/rucks - 2 (100%)

On pure numbers, we're looking sparse for cover in medium defenders, pure rucks and small forwards. By percentage of the best 23 that can be covered like-for-like, medium defenders, small forwards and medium forwards have the least coverage. But we need to consider players who are flexible enough to cover these roles if required (as well as accounting for the fact ZZ isn't useful depth at this point, he's a project player who isn't ready for prime time).

Medium defenders - Gardiner
Pure rucks - Smith
Midfielders - Rayner, Bailey (rotating through)
Small forwards - Kai (he's borderline in this category anyway)
Medium forwards - Ah Chee (has the leap if not the height)

So the real depth cover looks like this:

Small defenders - 100% of best 23
Medium defenders - 100%
Tall defenders - 100%
Midfielders - 100%
Pure rucks - 200%
Small forwards - 67%
Medium forwards - 100%
Tall forwards and forward/rucks - 100%

Ideally, we'd have at least 100% cover everywhere in case of an injury crisis at a specific position (like this season at tall defender when our three best were all injured at one point). So we're pretty set everywhere, except at small forward. And actually our depth there is worse than what I've listed because Linc won't be fit to start the season.

Fortunately, it just so happens we have a small forward who's out of contract that we can re-sign. We'll be fine if we let one of Prior and Beecken go, because we have depth at medium defender. We won't be fine if we let Craven go. We'd have to draft another small forward in that case.

TL;DR - Let's keep Craven for depth.

Update:

Small defenders - 6 (Zorko, Wilmot, Coleman, McKenna, Answerth, Brain)

Medium defenders - 4 (Starcevich, Lester, Doedee, Beecken)

Tall defenders - 5 (Andrews, Payne, Gardiner, Joyce, ZZ)

Midfielders - 12 (Neale, Will Ashcroft, McCluggage, Dunkley, Berry, Levi Ashcroft, Fletcher, Reville, Marshall, Robertson, Tunstill, Torrent)

Pure rucks - 2 (McInerney, Fort)

Small forwards - 5 (Cameron, Ah Chee, Bailey, McCarthy, Craven)

Medium forwards - 5 (Rayner, Lohmann, Morris, McLachlan, Lloyd)

Tall forwards and forward/rucks - 5 (Hipwood, Day, Smith, Ryan, Gallop)

Very balanced list, with 15 forwards, 15 defenders, and 14 midfielders/pure rucks. We're well stocked everywhere with no glaring holes outside of tall forward (but we were never replacing Joe with a top player straight away).

Next year Brain has to come off the Cat B rookie list, probably replacing Zorko or Lester if they retire. Reville can stay as a Cat B. And you'd think at least one of the bottom three midfielders on the list will leave and be replaced by Annable.

 

[Tom14]

That’s probably fair. If I could have a pick out of the three, subject to his knee, it’d be Allen. But I wouldn’t have him light years ahead or be disappointed with naughton.

Allen, Naughton, Lewis for me.

I think Naughton is better than Allen and is generally underrated as a forward. Goalkicking is the obvious issue, along with durability.

But think people are incorrect when they hope that Naughton could be got for cheap - clubs are so starved for key forwards that even if the dogs wanted him to go (which they don't) he's not going for less than two late first rounders.

Allen as a FA > Naughton for at least 1 first rounder (and a second or another first) > Lewis who will take a first rounder to get when still contracted.

I'm greedy - I want the key forward and to retain all our picks so we can continue the draft rorts under a more difficult system.

 

[Tom14]

naughton is a horrible set shot.

i think his pressure for a tall isnt bad honestly.

Great contested mark and an underrated ground level player. Good field kick too.

The goalkicking is brutal though.

 

[Tom14]

Great contested mark and an underrated ground level player. Good field kick too.

The goalkicking is brutal though.

If Naughton ever got his goalkicking in order though... has had multiple seasons where he's had just under or above 4 shots per game.

Every season Joe played for us was around that mark (well above it the last two years). I miss Joey

 

[Johnny Bananas]

But think people are incorrect when they hope that Naughton could be got for cheap - clubs are so starved for key forwards that even if the dogs wanted him to go (which they don't) he's not going for less than two late first rounders.

Perhaps you're right when it comes to the demand for KPFs. I just can't imagine how the Bulldogs will manage to keep all these KPFs they have coming out of their ears. Even if they find space for all of them by moving one back (probably Naughton), so much of their cap will be put into the one position that they're going to be paying their midfielders peanuts. Something will have to give at some point. But perhaps not at the right time or price to benefit us.

 

[Tom14]

Perhaps you're right when it comes to the demand for KPFs. I just can't imagine how the Bulldogs will manage to keep all these KPFs they have coming out of their ears. Even if they find space for all of them by moving one back (probably Naughton), so much of their cap will be put into the one position that they're going to be paying their midfielders peanuts. Something will have to give at some point. But perhaps not at the right time or price to benefit us.

If bevo stays then all their money goes to the key forwards, Bont, ed richards and Sanders. He'll play 14 scubs from the VFL to fill out the team and wonder why they finish outside top 4 again.

 

[Elixuh]

I’m also not sold on the headband or astronaught gimmicks. I don’t think we need those distractions.

 

[Lace Out]

A ton of naught for mine.Pass.

Looked like anything first 2 years but now we know.

 

[Tom14]

I’m also not sold on the headband or astronaught gimmicks. I don’t think we need those distractions.

I agree but would 100% backflip if he ended up here. He seems weird enough to be a good vibes based add.

My watch with Allen is that he's clearly not weird enough to replace Joe. The man would probably buy property in Pullenvale rather than commute from NSW if he came to us.

 

[Section 5]

I am not that keen on Allen or Lewis and i doubt Naughton is going anywhere.
Unless we lose a decent player, we won't have draft capital either.
Season 2026 is a long way off.
At some stage we may have to pass on a highly rated academy player to fill a void on our list.

Let's see how we go with Hipwood, Morris, Day, Smith, Doedee, Gardiner, Lloyd, Ryan, Gallop

 

[Viceregal]

When people mention Joe for 2026, what is the mechanism that would be used to get him on the list?

 

[Clarkythelion]

TDK isn't a forward though

Forward and can Ruck or a Ruck that can play Forward.