List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion
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KissKiss
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Hinge has been really impressive from what Ive seen at Adelaide, maybe even more so than Keays recently
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I wasn't really a big fan of Keays when he was with us but I always thought Hinge had something and that we could regret him moving on.... would probably be in our side now with all the injuries in the backline or he could be useful on the wing.
At full strength he is likely still only depth though.
Dalions
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If we had a choice, would take Hinge back in a heart beat, over Keays.
mpal6
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Not actively going to trade, however I'm unsure about giving him the offer he'll be after. Media are beating up since pre-season for him to be a million dollar man. AFL salary cap increases mean million would be like a 800k offer in the past. I think we paid that for Neale when he came over, he was a premium ball winning mid already who was pumping out clearances / first possession during stoppage. I'm not sure Hugh has reached those heights, to be fair it wasn't easy considering the roles he has played for us (switching between wing and center).
I just did a eyeball comparison against someone like Tim Taranto, who went one pick before him.
It appears Taranto exploded in 2021 as a mid with 103 clearances. After moving to Richmond he's become the primary mid with 142 clearances last year. McCluggage has hit 80s and 90s but haven't posted 3 figures yet.
If we flip that view based on team based stats,
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders.
www.footywire.com
Top teams all seem to have a two prong clearance mids before the rucks show up in the list. We appear to have a unhealthy reliance on Neale and then it's Big O. 2024 paints another interesting picture - https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-brisbane-lions?year=2024&rt=TT&pt=&st=CL&mg=1. Once Neale was unavailable, Big O has become that primary clearance source and others going through midfield didn't pick up the slack.
Happy to dole out a million bucks if McCluggage steps up to cover the midfield weakness, right now I'm not so sure.
I think around the mill would be his going rate ,though he just might scrape in to that level.Not actively going to trade, however I'm unsure about giving him the offer he'll be after. Media are beating up since pre-season for him to be a million dollar man. AFL salary cap increases mean million would be like a 800k offer in the past. I think we paid that for Neale when he came over, he was a premium ball winning mid already who was pumping out clearances / first possession during stoppage. I'm not sure Hugh has reached those heights, to be fair it wasn't easy considering the roles he has played for us (switching between wing and center).
I just did a eyeball comparison against someone like Tim Taranto, who went one pick before him.
It appears Taranto exploded in 2021 as a mid with 103 clearances. After moving to Richmond he's become the primary mid with 142 clearances last year. McCluggage has hit 80s and 90s but haven't posted 3 figures yet.
If we flip that view based on team based stats,
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders.www.footywire.com
Top teams all seem to have a two prong clearance mids before the rucks show up in the list. We appear to have a unhealthy reliance on Neale and then it's Big O. 2024 paints another interesting picture - https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-brisbane-lions?year=2024&rt=TT&pt=&st=CL&mg=1. Once Neale was unavailable, Big O has become that primary clearance source and others going through midfield didn't pick up the slack.
Happy to dole out a million bucks if McCluggage steps up to cover the midfield weakness, right now I'm not so sure.
Agree with everything you said really . Clug isn't up there with the top mids but the issue for us is who would we replace him with.
Just musing on your post a bit more I know we still have every right to have a real crack again this year but the time is rapidly approaching as to when we consider how things will look 3-4 years from now and whether we reset for maybe 25+.Not actively going to trade, however I'm unsure about giving him the offer he'll be after. Media are beating up since pre-season for him to be a million dollar man. AFL salary cap increases mean million would be like a 800k offer in the past. I think we paid that for Neale when he came over, he was a premium ball winning mid already who was pumping out clearances / first possession during stoppage. I'm not sure Hugh has reached those heights, to be fair it wasn't easy considering the roles he has played for us (switching between wing and center).
I just did a eyeball comparison against someone like Tim Taranto, who went one pick before him.
It appears Taranto exploded in 2021 as a mid with 103 clearances. After moving to Richmond he's become the primary mid with 142 clearances last year. McCluggage has hit 80s and 90s but haven't posted 3 figures yet.
If we flip that view based on team based stats,
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders.www.footywire.com
Top teams all seem to have a two prong clearance mids before the rucks show up in the list. We appear to have a unhealthy reliance on Neale and then it's Big O. 2024 paints another interesting picture - https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-brisbane-lions?year=2024&rt=TT&pt=&st=CL&mg=1. Once Neale was unavailable, Big O has become that primary clearance source and others going through midfield didn't pick up the slack.
Happy to dole out a million bucks if McCluggage steps up to cover the midfield weakness, right now I'm not so sure.
A few players at or dare I say passing their peak and some more who haven't quite fulfilled the potential we envisaged.
Morbidly_Obese
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I wish my parents believed in me as much as nathan barley believes in martinson.
There's plenty of people who resonate with your parents Morbidly Obese.
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Not actively going to trade, however I'm unsure about giving him the offer he'll be after. Media are beating up since pre-season for him to be a million dollar man. AFL salary cap increases mean million would be like a 800k offer in the past. I think we paid that for Neale when he came over, he was a premium ball winning mid already who was pumping out clearances / first possession during stoppage. I'm not sure Hugh has reached those heights, to be fair it wasn't easy considering the roles he has played for us (switching between wing and center).
I just did a eyeball comparison against someone like Tim Taranto, who went one pick before him.
It appears Taranto exploded in 2021 as a mid with 103 clearances. After moving to Richmond he's become the primary mid with 142 clearances last year. McCluggage has hit 80s and 90s but haven't posted 3 figures yet.
If we flip that view based on team based stats,
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders.www.footywire.com
Top teams all seem to have a two prong clearance mids before the rucks show up in the list. We appear to have a unhealthy reliance on Neale and then it's Big O. 2024 paints another interesting picture - https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-brisbane-lions?year=2024&rt=TT&pt=&st=CL&mg=1. Once Neale was unavailable, Big O has become that primary clearance source and others going through midfield didn't pick up the slack.
Happy to dole out a million bucks if McCluggage steps up to cover the midfield weakness, right now I'm not so sure.
taranto butchers it/ Hughie by a mile.
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Probably, he was extended at least a couple years ago which would have been after his big EF performance or the year before when he was still like 23. There’s a good chance he won’t stay in that top range with a new contract. The club might even encourage him to get the best offers elsewhere and match if it’s within an affordable range.
Plenty of people have understandable issues with selection but I do think our club has been incredibly capable with cap management. Being able to recruit Dunkley and Doedee the past two seasons has been a testament to that.
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Yep, with some hindsight it was fine to give Gunston the first half of the season to see how it worked. It didn’t, and while I think we messed up bringing him back in (even though he played a decently better), figuring it out in the first half of the season I don’t think was too dire.
I suspect the Gardiner experiment will be somewhat similar in that regard, as well as Rayner in the midfield. If there’s any time to actually test something in an AFL game, it’s the first half of the season.
mpal6
Norm Smith Medallist
Yeah, to be fair I'd put Hugh in the same bracket as Josh Kelly in GWS. Outside silk, creative player who can go through midfield when needed but his primary strengths lie elsewhere. On that view I'm very happy to pay him the big bucks.
The problem we have is winning the ball in midfield though before it gets to the outside player like Clugg and we don't have a strong backup act for Neale. I don't rate Big O's clearance at all, it could be a random smashing of the ball wherever and you can say your prayers beyond that. So in effect if the opposition do their planning and shut down Neale, there is no plan B for us. It's just a miracle we came close to 4 points off winning a premiership when our second best clearance player is our ruck with 140 clearances last year.
If we win clearance and break even at center, we'll look fantastic once the ball gets locked in the forward line. It's the source where we have a problem and we don't have strong next-gen midfielders coming through. It's even more evident this season - we're playing JL, Neale's output is down, there is a opening in the middle screaming for someone to step in but we don't have much takers.
dlanod
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Not actively going to trade, however I'm unsure about giving him the offer he'll be after. Media are beating up since pre-season for him to be a million dollar man. AFL salary cap increases mean million would be like a 800k offer in the past. I think we paid that for Neale when he came over, he was a premium ball winning mid already who was pumping out clearances / first possession during stoppage. I'm not sure Hugh has reached those heights, to be fair it wasn't easy considering the roles he has played for us (switching between wing and center).
I just did a eyeball comparison against someone like Tim Taranto, who went one pick before him.
It appears Taranto exploded in 2021 as a mid with 103 clearances. After moving to Richmond he's become the primary mid with 142 clearances last year. McCluggage has hit 80s and 90s but haven't posted 3 figures yet.
If we flip that view based on team based stats,
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders
2023 Collingwood Total Clearances Leaders.www.footywire.com
Top teams all seem to have a two prong clearance mids before the rucks show up in the list. We appear to have a unhealthy reliance on Neale and then it's Big O. 2024 paints another interesting picture - https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-brisbane-lions?year=2024&rt=TT&pt=&st=CL&mg=1. Once Neale was unavailable, Big O has become that primary clearance source and others going through midfield didn't pick up the slack.
Happy to dole out a million bucks if McCluggage steps up to cover the midfield weakness, right now I'm not so sure.
Taranto moved to Richmond and became their #1 midfielder after being the #1 mid at GWS due to injury. I don't think we've ever played with McCluggage as our #1 for an entire season, but if memory serves the spell when he looked his absolute best is when he has been in the middle as our true #2 - but because of the way we've structured our midfield he ends up of more value to us as more of an outside role playing off Neale and Lyons or Dunkley. This then artificially suppresses his numbers.
I think we'll be paying close to if not more than $1m for Hugh if we keep him (and we should) because other clubs are going to look at him and his profile and bet that he can be a #1 option for them, like Taranto at Richmond. He's young, he's made the AA squad four times and twice got plenty of press that he should have made the team.
The other note with Taranto is that those clearances tend to be 50/50 at best. They're Oscar-style clearances, not Neale, so empty calories.
Just saw this comparison and think it's an ok one.
GWS has played Kelly through the middle a number of times. He's good but it's not the best use of his ability. I think Hugh is actually better than Kelly when both are played as a true midfielder, because Hugh has more ability to find space and slither through gaps in congestion, but Kelly is better outside. The main differences - the GWS clearance mids look for Kelly as their first option, and he's playing as first receiver. McCluggage ends up playing that extra disposal away quite often because we rotate him through our strict wing roles and we tend to look for the player coming off the back of the contest.
Disappointing about Doedee's knee - feel for him. Wonder if this impacts our list management for next year.
Lace Out
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Promote Brain and Reville,get them both in
Nunez
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Assume no rookie upgrade. Would have announced by now
DreadBat5701894
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I’m pretty sure we’ve announced a rookie upgrade the same time as a debut before
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If West Coast get some extra picks (say a 2nd and a 3rd) by the AFL perhaps they'd ask for Starc and Dev Robbo?
PattyKwasagun
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I realise fans notoriously overrate their own players, but I wouldn't trade Starce for anything outside of a top-15 pick (probably even top-10, to be honest). Dev is more of a late-second scenario probably.
Can I say, on behalf of all Lions fans, how comforting is it to be back in the position of a season written off already and compeltely focusing on the only two weeks of the year that matter - trade period (and draft).
Party like it's 2016!
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Berry a player who has genuinely stagnated . Should have been dropped by fagan long ago to set a standard . He is too soft on players . Why we going so tall against Collingwood ?
