List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

Prediction- Who is delisted this year(not retirements).

  • Berry

  • McCluggage

  • Lyons

  • McCarthy

  • Answerth

  • Lane

  • Prior

  • Madden

  • Lester

  • Joyce

  • Zorko

  • Michael

  • Brain

  • Reville

Results are only viewable after voting.

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Thought this was a very interesting piece from 2015 in relation to what we're facing now:

How the Hawks were helped by losing their Buddy​

Hawthorn wanted to keep Lance Franklin. In 2013, the Hawks offered Buddy a five year contract worth about $5m, a proposition that was rendered impotent by Sydney's doubling of that amount over nine years.

The Hawks knew throughout 2013 that Franklin was exiting and began planning for the post-Buddy future. Today, as they prepare for a fourth grand final in pursuit of an incredible treble, it's evident that the loss of Franklin has likely enabled, rather than halted, a Hawthorn dynasty.

Had the Hawks retained Buddy, as they initially wished, they would not have recruited Ben McEvoy or James Frawley, and the club knows they would have lost other valued players, plus depth.

The maths isn't Stephen Hawking stuff. The Hawks have saved a million dollar per annum in their salary cap by sacrificing Franklin. This saving allowed them to retain virtually every single player on their wanted list during and after 2013. The future would reveal Buddy as an unintended Hawthorn patriot.

That million dollar hole meant that no current or future A grader was lost, despite the rampant promiscuity unleashed by free agency. It helped the Hawks to create a depth that gave them a significant edge over competitors that had far more invested in fewer players - Sydney and Fremantle, in particular.

The question of whether the Hawks would have been so strong had Buddy stayed – as a $5 million man – brought complete consensus from rival club list managers. "No way," said one.
"Clearly not," added a second, while a third list manager from a non-Victorian club thought the response to Franklin's exit represented "the best list management in history.

Hawthorn's first priority post-Franklin, as the club enunciated back then, was to reward their own players before bringing anyone else in. Sam Mitchell, Grant Birchall, Josh Gibson and Cyril Rioli were among those re-contracted and bumped up.

Crucially, the club was able to re-negotiate deals with Luke Breust (2014), Isaac Smith (2014) and Brad Hill (2015) – a trio who would have been ripe for picking off had the Buddy-flight effect not existed. The Giants made an unsuccessful late-hour lunge for Breust – like Smith, a NSW product – during last year's exchange period.

As with Geelong during its halcyon period, Hawthorn's payments regime has seen senior players receive slight "unders" compared to what they could receive from a team lower down the ladder – a reality that prompted the club to reward premiership players. Just as there wasn't a Geelong player, Gary Ablett included, on much more than $600,000 during their premiership period, Hawthorn had only Buddy paid more than $800,000 in 2013 and it is understood they don't have anyone remunerated much beyond that kind of number today.

No club is thought to have won a premiership with a player paid more than a million dollars since Wayne Carey in 1999, although the television rights money ensures that, in the coming years, a million will be the new $700,000, and that "duck" should be broken. Geelong's offer to champion Paddy Dangerfield is instructive – not far north of $800,000, but over six seasons.

When teams win flags, everyone has their hand out. The socialised system is designed to bring the premiers down, and typically, it's the depth that is eviscerated first. But this didn't happen at Hawthorn, which enters this grand final with a raft of players outside the 22 who're capable of playing in a premiership team. Will Langford, a hero of 2014, didn't make Friday night's side.

He and midifielders Jed Anderson, Brendon Whitecross, Jonathan O'Rourke and Jonathan Simpkin were named in the best for Box Hill last weekend. The Hawks have also developed back-ups for nearly every position.

As they prepared to lose Buddy, the Hawks made a parallel adjustment which would prove beneficial in 2013 and make it easier to cover for one of the game's premier key forwards. Alastair Clarkson and his assistants devised a forward system in which Franklin was less focal. The forward structure, thus, became more genuinely egalitarian.

The benefits of forfeiting Franklin were summarised thus by Chris Pelchen, the former Hawthorn list manager and St Kilda head of football: "Obviously Buddy is a star but ... releasing him provided scope for player retention and forced a change of game plan that has developed multiple options in the forward half.

"Taking a step backwards in losing Buddy has effectively provided two steps forward over the past two years."
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martinson said:
Smith is going to be better than a lot of people think.
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You bullish on him as a key forward martin or you talking as a ruck who plays 10-20% forward? As a number 1 ruck I agree with you.

I don't see it as a KPF.. I hope I am wrong and you are right.
 

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blueiris said:
Fagan has no real say in who we bring in though it's more Daly and Dom who have final say from the VFL games i saw Lloyd looked the most capable to step up to AFL level dom saying we'd look at playing 2 rucks this morning on trade radio out of our 2 ruck big O is the more forward Savey
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I'm not sure why you think Fagan has no real say. He might not be doing the hands on work but I have no doubt the team keep him looped in on any concrete plans and he would have the ability to talk the team out of certain players if he chose to. Every time you hear any of them talk, it's clear Daly, Fagan, Swann, Ambroglio, and Conole work very much collaboratively, just with different focuses.
 
Morbidly_Obese said:
Ngapa Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
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That's a bit unnecessary. He won't cost much, can ruck and can play forward and less injury prone than a few other options that have been mentioned I also like to shout out 2m Peter!
 
Thomasno said:
What about Gardiner - the game he did his ACL I actually remember thinking just before that “geez it looks like it’s clicked finally”, he was looking quite good playing as a forward. And I heard he could be right for pre season, so maybe he’s the best bet?
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I thought he was horrible up forward, the opposition defenders just ran off him and we were essentially playing a forward short.
 
M Malice said:
You bullish on him as a key forward martin or you talking as a ruck who plays 10-20% forward? As a number 1 ruck I agree with you.

I don't see it as a KPF.. I hope I am wrong and you are right.
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The unescapable truth is that any solution to "replacing" Joe, needs to account for the minutes in relief rucking that he did. Many of the names being put forward have no history of that.

Henry has played two games in the seniors. The first he looked a little lost, the second was more promising, but I believe Daniher was still in the side and would have attracted many of the kicks into the forward line. In the twos, he's relatively agile and good below his knees and has good hands.

We may just have to change our approach a little to bring our small-medium forwards into the game more, but I think he can work. Perhaps he spends more time rotating with Oscar.

But outside of a couple of names like Wright, I can't see anything approximating what Joe games us in terms of structure.
 
Thomasno said:
Jon Ralph is a grade A flog, we hang a lot of shit on Victorian media for “vicbias”, but a lot of it is kind of tongue in cheek - except Ralph. Ralph would disband the 8 interstate teams in a heartbeat if he could; any time any of them see success you can see how much he hates it.
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I've always thought that Ralph is of the view that the non Victorian teams should really just know our place, not play finals, develop players and ensure Victorian clubs can raid the non-Vic club players as much and for as little as possible.

It does irk me that the likes of Browny and lesser extent Buckley, who is sympathetic to and is all about equality, don't have a go at the prick in any of the footy shows or even off camera b/c the campaigner just goes non-Victorian teams all the time.
 
The Flying Belgian said:
We may just have to change our approach a little to bring our small-medium forwards into the game more, but I think he can work. Perhaps he spends more time rotating with Oscar.
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That's my thought too. If Smith comes into the side I wonder if he plays more in the ruck and gives Oscar a chance to rest forward more. It'd be a great time for Oscar to have a late career revival of his one grab marking he had early in his career.
 

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JasRulz63 said:
That's my thought too. If Smith comes into the side I wonder if he plays more in the ruck and gives Oscar a chance to rest forward more. It'd be a great time for Oscar to have a late career revival of his one grab marking he had early in his career.
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The other scenario is that Ryan suddenly brings his game up. Can't see it myself, but you never know.
 
JasRulz63 said:
That's my thought too. If Smith comes into the side I wonder if he plays more in the ruck and gives Oscar a chance to rest forward more. It'd be a great time for Oscar to have a late career revival of his one grab marking he had early in his career.
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Forward defensive pressure is another when considering replacing Joe. It was a big part of the game plan. Love the big O but not sure he is a defensive beast. Could turn out to be wrong.

Just on that, for those that know, how does Smith go in the required forward defensive efforts?
 
The Flying Belgian said:
The other scenario is that Ryan suddenly brings his game up. Can't see it myself, but you never know.
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I haven't given up hope totally either. We must have seen something there to give him 3 years. He was really so far below what we would've expected I wonder if there was an issue there.
 
Nuggo said:
Forward defensive pressure is another when considering replacing Joe. It was a big part of the game plan. Love the big O but not sure he is a defensive beast. Could turn out to be wrong.

Just on that, for those that know, how does Smith go in the required forward defensive efforts?
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Too cumbersome from my viewing to be of much use in that area of the game, Joe and Hippy both had/have pretty good closing speed and Logan Morris was better than I expected.

When Joe was inclined to his defensive game was elite for a big man, almost impossible to find another even approaching our Joe.
 
Can someone explain the different roles of Dom Ambrogio, Steve Conole and Danny Daly in terms of our List Management. Obviously, they must work as a team but is it a case of Dom being responsible for Trades, Steve for Drafting and Danny for contract negotiations and our salary cap management?
 
Squizz89 said:
I assume we may not hear of any incoming replacement/s during the trade period if we are picking from the DFA pool? Would assume we’d wait till after the trade period to grab one of those?
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If we were picking up a DFA we may wait until the SSP after the draft so we can keep that list spot free for points.
 
T Rick said:
Can someone explain the different roles of Dom Ambrogio, Steve Conole and Danny Daly in terms of our List Management. Obviously, they must work as a team but is it a case of Dom being responsible for Trades, Steve for Drafting and Danny for contract negotiations and our salary cap management?
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My understanding is that Dom does contract negotiations and salary cap management too - but sits under Danny Daly who has oversight of both list management and the draft.

In previous trade periods they've referenced a list management committee including at least Danny, Dom, Fages and Steve Conole to go through the strategy for trade period. Gregg Swann might sit on that one as well if they still have the same structure.
 
My mate who is a cats supporter said why not ask Tom Hawkins you want to go around. Bath him in the Brisbane river and get a year out of him.

Can Ruck forward not sure body cooked . Would take some pressure of morris with defenders
 
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