List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[bmaurizio]

Our list needs refreshing, at least 6 to7 players should be retired and or moved on. It’s cyclical , every team needs a seasonal revision, it’s due diligence.

 

[Juice030103]

I just get the feeling we will have a really strong offseason

 

[BlueJet]

I’m not a SOS fan, but when he left our cap was it top shape. Since Austin has taken over it’s gone to shit.

Yes players have improved and warrant more money. But under Austin and Co we targeted and over payed big money for the wrong players. From the outside looking in Austin and Co seems to struggle to negotiate effectively.

Of course it was, he jettisoned senior players for draft picks (rookie contracts).
Silvagni pursued Coniglio & Shiel on big money, as opposed to Williams & Saad.
The issue I have with recruitment is that we're seemingly reactive rather than proactive.
No run? Better draft Ollie & Binns
Lack KPD? Well, it's "too late" to develop one, so we better trade for one.

 

[manang magoos]

Heard Buckley say on SEN that he'd trade Curnow before McKay for that very reason.

More pearls of wisdom from figjam

 

[Coops93]

Wouldn't do 2 firsts for Houston, feel like a first round pick around pick 10 is about right all in all.

Imo (should we lose early finals or not make it) a straight swap for our first (pick 8-12) should work for both parties.

If push comes to shove and they play hard ball maybe a 1st and future 2nd for Houston and a future 3rd.

 

[Wickzki]

They played footy together all the way to draft time, SOS would have seen Houston play countless times, obviously didn’t rate him enough.

Was Houston a late bloomer?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the issue was that Dan projected as a halfback at the AFL level and SOS's philosophy was always you start with the key position players then concentrate on the guts followed by X factor and the peripheral players can be added at any time.

If you look at how SOS played that draft:

National Draft

1 - Jacob Weitering (KPD)
10 - Harry McKay (KPF)
12 - Charlie Curnow (KPF)
23 - David Cuningham (mid/wing/hff - x-factor)
53 - Jack Silvagni (utility)

Rookie Draft

1 - Jesse Glass-McCasker (KPD)
19 - Andrew Gallucci (mature age (ready-made), x-factor, small forward)
37 - Matt Korcheck (KP/ruck)

Dan was chosen pick 45 in the rookie draft so after all of our selections with the last one being a pre-draft promise.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Still like the idea of trading for former first round picks, that aren’t getting consistent games at their current club and getting them for peanuts…

Also like the idea of improving the bottom 6 players of the best 22 each year, imagine the depth after a few years…

Not a bad exercise to look into.

2020 - Phillips (NM), Grainger-Barras (HAW), Reid (ESS), Pedlar (ADE), Stone (GWS), Angwin (GWS), Macrae (COL), Laurie (MEL), McInnes (COL)
2021 - Erasmus (FRE), Sinn (PA), Hobbs (ESS), Aleer (GWS), Sheldrick (SYD)
2022 - Tsatas (ESS), Phillipou (STK), Busslinger (WB), Jefferson (MEL), Konstanty (SYD), Rowston (GWS), Allan (COL)

Of that lot, I think there are a handful who might suit our needs and have the required skills.

Grainger-Barrass, Reid or Jed Busslinger for a KPD.
Aleer for an intercepting CHB.
Sinn for a rebounding HBF.
Stone for a third tall forward (maybe not required after last weekend...).
Phillipou for a HHF/mid rotation.
Konstanty for a goal sneak forward pocket.
Allan for a genuine three-line utility.

The rest are mostly slow/average paced midfielders, or general/small forwards who don't offer the speed we need as a point of difference.

 

[Stamos]

By the time SOS was sacked he'd already given big money deals to McGovern, Martin, and Zak Williams.

Williams was signed by Austin.
Silvagni left more than 10 months earlier.

 

[Stamos]

The only real signings under Austin have been Acres and Hewett - both who were signed to bargain prices.

Williams, Cerra, Saad

 

[Wickzki]

Williams, Cerra, Saad

Williams was on the radar over 12-months before we signed him.

So too was Saad (we tried to get him when Essendon did).\

Neither of those are on Austin.

Cerra, granted. Until his injury was completely mismanaged was considered a great trade and playing at or above the level we expected.

 

[Wickzki]

I'll say this and stand by this: the blame directed at Nick Austin is misplaced.

The blame should be directed at Agresta.

 

[Stamos]

Williams was on the radar over 12-months before we signed him.

So too was Saad (we tried to get him when Essendon did).\

Neither of those are on Austin.

Cerra, granted.

On the radar is not the same as signed.
There is no possible way that Liddle would have let Silvagni make an agreement for nearly a year after he was forced out.


And I don't think it is 'blame', just acknowledging who was in charge when decisions were made.

 

[athensblue]

Charlie and H for 2 first rounders...

Why are we trading H?
Charlie, Bot, H and Crippa untouchable

Need a fast mid and a CHB/FB type and a healthy list
Don't like K Pickett but worth sniffing around for interest as PA are doing
Maybe melb get our 11 (or 18) off port for Picket we get Houston.
Trac would be great if the deal is a good one
We have a window of about 3 yrs tops and our guns then start to get a little older
See us being active in the trade period whether we win a few finals or not

 

[Wickzki]

On the radar is not the same as signed.
There is no possible way that Liddle would have let Silvagni make an agreement for nearly a year after he was forced out.


And I don't think it is 'blame', just acknowledging who was in charge when decisions were made.

It wasn't SOS who went after Williams. It was Agresta.

Just like Agresta went after Hewett.

edit: Also Papley.

 

[CeeDee88]

I should've said 'been his best mate since they were kids..."

But yes.

A shame SOS didn't listen to Jack back in '15.

Also was JSOS groomsmen

 

[Wickzki]

And I don't think it is 'blame', just acknowledging who was in charge when decisions were made.

Then acknowledge who the "national recruiting manager" was at the time this went down rather than the number cruncher.

Targeting the wrong players is on the person responsible for the recruiting.

Agresta was involved in both the SOS and Austin periods.

 

[Soapy V]

Going to need to be serious list discussions around our list and injuries at years end

We know Cuningham Martin & Marchbank are done.

How many of names like Fogarty Cerra McGovern Saad Williams Docherty Mirkov Fantasia M.Carroll S.Durdin C.Durdin can we keep carrying? All have missed a lot of football in their careers

Not all are soft tissue and many unlucky but there are players that just seem have bodies that can't handle the physicality. We also have older players that are sustaining multipe soft tissue injuries. They rarely get better

You can have a few but at some stage you need to make decisions and having 8 plus players a week unavailable virtually eliminates your flag chances

 

[chipzac]

He's a gun, but I'm finding myself open to it.

Reason being I think in the modern game you can get by with 1 gun KPF - shit Collingwood won with just McStay last year. It's all about rebound, ball movement and creating space in the 50 right now. Could we get to the level we need to get to by having just a workhorse KPF who stays out of Charlie's way and creates space for him & the 3rd tall?

You could argue McKay does that already, but would it be that hard to find someone else to do the same, whilst freeing up some cap space to round out our 22 a bit better?

Maybe release Curnow up the ground to give him that Jeremy Cameron role & leave Harry at home (Geelong won it in '22 with this method), but honestly, his set shot kicking (whilst improved) still isn't reliable enough to play that role - especially in big moments.

Love him, not saying 'hes shit let's trade him', just think he may be surplus to our needs.

I realize I'll get heat for this opinion but whatever.

Well, here's the heat you were expecting:

Yes, you're right, he's a gun who has elite size, speed, agility skills for a big man and that's what we should focus on, not on what position someone may think he is pigeoned holed to. I have no doubt he could play anywhere on the ground where a tall with his ability and skills is required. Talls are still required in this brave new world, aren't they?

In a perfect, Carlton world there would be no injuries to our taller forwards during the year but supposing Curnow suffers a major injury and is unavailable for most of the year who have we got to throw down there after we have traded Harry out for a non-tall, Lemmey?

And, people have been screaming now for weeks that we need a KPD to help Weiters and if we no longer need a KPF (according to some), then it seems likely that a player with Harry's skills could do the job more than adequately (see his brother).

Also, only last week many of us were screaming about how poor Pitto was and that we need another ruck to help Tdk, well I wonder who we have on our list that could possibly fill in there, as Tdk's partner? Some would suggest O'keefe, but as with Pitto, has anyone seen him taking contested pack marks or even given hints he could do so when he matures? (yes, I do realise he's young and will improve his game!).

Instead of being 'blinded' by this one-dimensional thinking (that he's just a tall KPF, and therefore he's expendable because we already have one in Curnow), see what attributes he has that make him a unique talent that we're so lucky to have. Players with limited skills may be suited to one role on the ground, but he's not one of those.

I've always hated the best 22 scenarios and the positions players are stereotyped to ... just fantasy stuff. In the real world you have to adapt to your injury list, form and the opposition you are playing and be prepared to switch players around ... but you have to have talented players who can be switched ... talented players, like Harry.

So, no I just don't get it. We picked him high in draft and worked with him many years to get him to the level he's now capable of playing at, and now ... we should trade him? Just insane!

 

[Stamos]

Then acknowledge who the "national recruiting manager" was at the time this went down rather than the number cruncher.

Targeting the wrong players is on the person responsible for the recruiting.

Agresta was involved in both the SOS and Austin periods.

National Recruiting Manager is in charge of drafting, not trading.

 

[BlueJet]

It wasn't SOS who went after Williams. It was Agresta.

Just like Agresta went after Hewett.

edit: Also Papley.

Of course, that was/is Agresta's role, to identify targets from opposition clubs.
It's Austin or previously SOS's responsibility to confirm the fit/viability & adherence to the overall list management strategy.

 

[Wickzki]

Of course, that was/is Agresta's role, to identify targets from opposition clubs.
It's Austin or previously SOS's responsibility to confirm the fit/viability & adherence to the overall list management strategy.

Agresta had Austin's role (certainly the job title) under Silvagni.

Song made a big song and dance about Austin being primarily a number cruncher when we signed him.

 

[Stamos]

How many of names like Fogarty Cerra McGovern Saad Williams Docherty Mirkov Fantasia M.Carroll S.Durdin C.Durdin can we keep carrying?

So 6 cut this year.
Not sure it's so practical to move any of those contracted players this year, but we'll probably move more on at the end of next year.

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

Cal Twomey reporting that Petracca has not met with any clubs at this stage.

So everyone jumping up down with us being erroneously linked to him should cool their jets.

 

[Wickzki]

National Recruiting Manager is in charge of drafting, not trading.

He hasn't just been the NRM with us though. He was the list manager.

 

[BlueJet]

Agresta had Austin's role (certainly the job title) under Silvagni.

Song made a big song and dance about Austin being primarily a number cruncher when we signed him.

Agresta was responsible to scouting opposition players under SOS, it was the cause for angst around Butler.
Has his role varied significantly under Austin? (Genuine question- not being smart)