List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[macky99]

AFL.com "CARLTON is willing to dip into its future picks this off-season to strengthen its trade ammunition, with the club hopeful of using a full complement of this year's selections at the draft"

Exactly what I have been told and have been posting for months. Austin wants to go to the draft and wants more picks. Future first in very much on the table

Focus has always been picks and value trades

Agree with this strategy Soapy but also feel next year will be important for Voss, and he will be pushing for Houston having some history there & knowing he can have geninue impact next year with his elite ball use etc.
Probably about finding the right balance, suspect we will try to use next years 1st in some form to trade into this years to fufills Port's needs, no one is giving two picks for Houston, that would be crazy.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Disagree. That's LM role. If they support what he wants and it won't affect much of what they want to do then yes, but the LM should have the final decision

I reiterate what I said in the post above. If the coach of the club wants player x and y the club should do its best to accommodate that wish.

 

[Magruder]

I reiterate what I said in the post above. If the coach of the club wants player x and y the club should do its best to accommodate that wish.

Not to the point of irresponsibility obviously

 

[Les Grossman playaaaa]

The coach is being reported as wanting Houston. If Voss wants Houston, the club should oblige if it can.

Disagree. That's LM role. If they support what he wants and it won't affect much of what they want to do then yes, but the LM should have the final decision

I reiterate what I said in the post above. If the coach of the club wants player x and y the club should do its best to accommodate that wish.

Who's reporting that's what Voss wants? I've only seen the media speculate this, not the coach or the club.

And the way it works is the coach can suggest the player he wants, however, the list manager is charged with seeing whether said player or type of player is available and see if it's possible to get them, and most importantly, afford them without compromising the present/future list and cap.
If the proposed acquisition is detrimental to everything the list manager is trying to control, it's likelihood of happening is zero.

 

[jj1978]

The coach is being reported as wanting Houston. If Voss wants Houston, the club should oblige if it can.

The coach wanted Fantasia. I'll leave it at that.

 

[gbatman]

Disagree. That's LM role. If they support what he wants and it won't affect much of what they want to do then yes, but the LM should have the final decision

It's up to the coach to direct list management. That's my worry about our coaching. I think we have been oblivious to our midfield issues for the last 3 years. I feel our coach has been giving really poor direction towards our list management.

It's pretty much the coaches job to build the team he wants and that means he asks list management to get certain types in and list management sorts out the finer details. Coach asks for a fullback. List management recruit one. Coach asks for a quicker onballer player who tackles, list management goes and get them.

Coach has a massive role on who we recruit. The coach asks for the type, list management find the individuals.

If Voss is not asking list management to sort out the problems with our onball group he needs to be sacked immediately because that means he doesn't know how to coach. If it's list management who just can't find the players then perhaps it's their heads on the chopping block.

Something is failing, I don't know what.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Who's reporting that's what Voss wants? I've only seen the media speculate this, not the coach or the club.

And the way it works is the coach can suggest the player he wants, however, the list manager is charged with seeing whether said player or type of player is available and see if it's possible to get them, and most importantly, afford them without compromising the present/future list and cap.
If the proposed acquisition is detrimental to everything the list manager is trying to control, it's likelihood of happening is zero.

Its exactly what I said.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Not to the point of irresponsibility obviously

Naturally

 

[Forty3]

I reiterate what I said in the post above. If the coach of the club wants player x and y the club should do its best to accommodate that wish.

Completely disagree.
List Managements job is to plan for a full squad of players for years into the future, make sure they can balance the salary cap, project future contracts, retirements, trades and drafts.

The coaching team can definitely make suggestions about the types of players they need. But should not be overruling the list management team.

One only has to look at what happened at Richmond.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I think the below are the premiership-capable aspects of our 22.

FB: Boyd (Small Defender), Weitering (Full Back), McGovern (Loose Tall)
HB: Saad (Quick Half Back), [insert] (Centre Half Back), Newman (Measured Half Back)
R: DeKoning (Athletic Ruck), Cripps (Inside Bull), Walsh (In & Out Midfielder)
C: Acres (Line to Line Wing), [insert] (Explosive Midfielder), Docherty (Utility + 7th Defender)
HF: Fogarty (Pressure Half Forward), McKay (Centre Half Forward), E.Hollands (Classy Half Forward)
FF: [insert] (Small Forward) Charlie (Full Forward), [insert] (Third Tall / Ruck Relief)

Int: Williams (Forward Utility), Cerra (4th Rotation Mid), [insert] (Pressure Utility), Cincotta (Lock Down Utility).

Based on the above, I think we need (and think people would agree that we need): a genuine 2nd KP option, an explosive midfielder, a classy small forward, another pressure forward / small forward, and a player to play the third tall role or ruck relief role depending on team make-up.

In terms of potentially available players: Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

or Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

would obviously be the best options and fit the explosive midfielder role that I think we're crying out for. Obviously someone like Barass would be amazing as a 2nd KPD but doesn't appear that we are in the market. If something like Leek Aleer were to come through, that would be a very suitable second option. Currently I don't see any third tall or small forward options that are clear cut. We may want to try our hands at one of the small forwards on the market but it would be a throw at the stumps with no clear producer in that category available. Same with the third tall relief ruck position and suspect this is where we need to look from within to fill this role (be it JSOS, Kemp etc). The same is said for the 3rd bench rotation. Houston is an interesting one as he doesn't fit an exact need based on the above. The argument would be he is an upgrade on Newman at the 'Measured Half Back' position and therefore we should slot him there, move Newman to 'Small Defender' and proceed that way. If it is a case of 'you take what you're given' I think that's not the worst scenario and it would still drastically improve our side.

Based on the above, i'd rank potential trade targets as follows:

1. Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

(dream acquisition but unlikely)
2. Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

(below Smith because he's older, again highly unlikely)
3. Dan Houston

5

Dan Houston

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

(above Leek only because he's actually rumoured to be on the move)
4. Leek Aleer (above Barass only because Barass hasn't indicated a desire for the Blues and Barass would be too expensive)
5. Barass (here because we should ask the question)
6. Rosas (throw at the stumps for a small forward)

 

[Magruder]

I think the below are the premiership-capable aspects of our 22.

FB: Boyd (Small Defender), Weitering (Full Back), McGovern (Loose Tall)
HB: Saad (Quick Half Back), [insert] (Centre Half Back), Newman (Measured Half Back)
R: DeKoning (Athletic Ruck), Cripps (Inside Bull), Walsh (In & Out Midfielder)
C: Acres (Line to Line Wing), [insert] (Explosive Midfielder), Docherty (Utility + 7th Defender)
HF: Fogarty (Pressure Half Forward), McKay (Centre Half Forward), E.Hollands (Classy Half Forward)
FF: [insert] (Small Forward) Charlie (Full Forward), [insert] (Third Tall / Ruck Relief)

Int: Williams (Forward Utility), Cerra (4th Rotation Mid), [insert] (Pressure Utility), Cincotta (Lock Down Utility).

Based on the above, I think we need (and think people would agree that we need): a genuine 2nd KP option, an explosive midfielder, a classy small forward, another pressure forward / small forward, and a player to play the third tall role or ruck relief role depending on team make-up.

In terms of potentially available players: Bailey Smith or Christian Petracca would obviously be the best options and fit the explosive midfielder role that I think we're crying out for. Obviously someone like Barass would be amazing as a 2nd KPD but doesn't appear that we are in the market. If something like Leek Aleer were to come through, that would be a very suitable second option. Currently I don't see any third tall or small forward options that are clear cut. We may want to try our hands at one of the small forwards on the market but it would be a throw at the stumps with no clear producer in that category available. Same with the third tall relief ruck position and suspect this is where we need to look from within to fill this role (be it JSOS, Kemp etc). The same is said for the 3rd bench rotation. Houston is an interesting one as he doesn't fit an exact need based on the above. The argument would be he is an upgrade on Newman at the 'Measured Half Back' position and therefore we should slot him there, move Newman to 'Small Defender' and proceed that way. If it is a case of 'you take what you're given' I think that's not the worst scenario and it would still drastically improve our side.

Based on the above, i'd rank potential trade targets as follows:

1. Bailey Smith
2. Christian Petracca
3. Dan Houston
4. Leek Aleer
5. Barass
6. Rosas

I’d pursue Aleer ahead of Houston but I’m picking up what you’re putting down

 

[Soapy V]

I think the below are the premiership-capable aspects of our 22.

FB: Boyd (Small Defender), Weitering (Full Back), McGovern (Loose Tall)
HB: Saad (Quick Half Back), [insert] (Centre Half Back), Newman (Measured Half Back)
R: DeKoning (Athletic Ruck), Cripps (Inside Bull), Walsh (In & Out Midfielder)
C: Acres (Line to Line Wing), [insert] (Explosive Midfielder), Docherty (Utility + 7th Defender)
HF: Fogarty (Pressure Half Forward), McKay (Centre Half Forward), E.Hollands (Classy Half Forward)
FF: [insert] (Small Forward) Charlie (Full Forward), [insert] (Third Tall / Ruck Relief)

Int: Williams (Forward Utility), Cerra (4th Rotation Mid), [insert] (Pressure Utility), Cincotta (Lock Down Utility).

Based on the above, I think we need (and think people would agree that we need): a genuine 2nd KP option, an explosive midfielder, a classy small forward, another pressure forward / small forward, and a player to play the third tall role or ruck relief role depending on team make-up.

In terms of potentially available players: Bailey Smith or Christian Petracca would obviously be the best options and fit the explosive midfielder role that I think we're crying out for. Obviously someone like Barass would be amazing as a 2nd KPD but doesn't appear that we are in the market. If something like Leek Aleer were to come through, that would be a very suitable second option. Currently I don't see any third tall or small forward options that are clear cut. We may want to try our hands at one of the small forwards on the market but it would be a throw at the stumps with no clear producer in that category available. Same with the third tall relief ruck position and suspect this is where we need to look from within to fill this role (be it JSOS, Kemp etc). The same is said for the 3rd bench rotation. Houston is an interesting one as he doesn't fit an exact need based on the above. The argument would be he is an upgrade on Newman at the 'Measured Half Back' position and therefore we should slot him there, move Newman to 'Small Defender' and proceed that way. If it is a case of 'you take what you're given' I think that's not the worst scenario and it would still drastically improve our side.

Based on the above, i'd rank potential trade targets as follows:

1. Bailey Smith
2. Christian Petracca
3. Dan Houston
4. Leek Aleer
5. Barass
6. Rosas

I like what you’ve done and agree with most

I have real hope Kemp Moir Lord Binns Ollie Wilson O’Keefe Cowan can fill many of those roles and make us a lot better

 

[gbatman]

We don't desperately need Houston.

Our midfield is the biggest problem along with the lack of small/medium forwards. That needs to be front and centre when it comes to list management. If the speed, intensity, tackling pressure and outside game doesn't improve in our onball group we will regress regardless of what other needs we address. No closing speed and lack of tackling pressure and run and carry in the modern game means you are not a contender.

We still lose to the top teams if you add a gun half back and full back to our side.

On the flip side, we are going into next season with two former AA half back flankers and some good young prospects. If Houston comes cheap, lets look at it, but the middle is a matter of urgency.

If round 1 comes and it's Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy and Walsh we may as well drop the mike and walk out, we're done and that will be the end of Voss and probably Austin and his team as well. Probably out the door with Cook and Sayers.

A lot of teams have modernised and gone past us. More will come.

We are at a real genuine make or break moment. I'm not confident. I've been warning about this for a while now. What happens recruitment wise is massive for us. I wish we had Cook a little longer.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

The coach is being reported as wanting Houston. If Voss wants Houston, the club should oblige if it can.

No he can GAGF...he's already got Fanta.
What more does he need.

 

[katmanblue]

Can I ask your thoughts on him and if you see potential upside?

I think he has a fair bit of upside. Just stuck behind too many mids.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Crippa#9]

Josh Gabelich on SEN asked about a suitor for Gold Coast’s Malcolm Rosas Jnr:

“Some interest from Carlton”

 

[katmanblue]

Least you could do is show him in more flattering colours.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Josh Gabelich on SEN asked about suitor for Gold Coast’s Malcolm Rosas Jnr:

“Some interest from Carlton”

Yes please

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Josh Gabelich on SEN asked about suitor for Gold Coast’s Malcolm Rosas Jnr:

“Some interest from Carlton”

 

[V_23]

No way we should cough up for Houston. Would cost too much and doesn’t address our dire need of pace.

Seriously, if our trade/draft targets wouldn’t be in the top 3-5 quickest at the club, do not want.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So hypothetically speaking the names we've been linked to all get done


Our 2025 team might look like...

Nick Haynes Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

26

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

- Adam Saad

42

Adam Saad

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

7.5

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

349.1

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

12.0

5star

HB

8.7

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.4

3star

MG

388.3

5star

D

17.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.2

3star

Nic Newman

24

Nic Newman

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

13.7

5star

HB

5.9

4star

M

5.5

5star

T

3.3

5star

MG

400.8

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

MG

157.0

3star

D

22.4

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

9.6

5star

M

5.4

5star

T

3.6

5star

MG

387.8

5star

- Mitch Mcgovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

30

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

- Dan Houston
Blake Acres

13

Blake Acres

Age

29

Ht

193cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.9

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

7.7

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.0

3star

D

8.2

2star

K

3.8

2star

HB

4.4

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.8

4star

- Patrick Cripps

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

29

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

- Ollie Hollands
Joe Berry - Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

- Lachie Fogarty
Ashton Moir - Harry Mckay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

- Malcolm Rosas
Tom Dekoning - Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

- Adam Cerra

I/C from: Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

- Elijah Hollands - Zac Williams - Sam Docherty

15

Sam Docherty

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

15.1

5star

HB

7.2

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.1

3star

D

22.6

5star

K

16.0

5star

HB

6.6

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

0.6

1star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

- Lachie Cowan - Cooper Lord - Billie Wilson

Doesn't look too bad. Still feels like a piece missing from somewhere when looking at it on paper. Would really love to see Wilson or Cowan find a way into the midfield mix next year.

 

[heatleystandend]

So hypothetically speaking the names we've been linked to all get done


Our 2025 team might look like...

Nick Haynes Jacob Weitering - Adam Saad
Nic Newman - Mitch Mcgovern - Dan Houston
Blake Acres - Patrick Cripps - Ollie Hollands
Joe Berry - Charlie Curnow - Lachie Fogarty
Ashton Moir - Harry Mckay - Malcolm Rosas
Tom Dekoning - Sam Walsh - Adam Cerra

Jack Silvagni - Elijah Hollands - Zac Williams - Sam Docherty

Doesn't look too bad. Still feels like a piece missing from somewhere when looking at it on paper.

There is no way Nick Haynes is in our best 23.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

There is no way Nick Haynes is in our best 23.

I'd hope not, more just for the sake of the brainstorm. I'd think Young and Kemp would be ahead of him unless he can find some spring back in his legs for 12 months.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So hypothetically speaking the names we've been linked to all get done


Our 2025 team might look like...

Nick Haynes Jacob Weitering - Adam Saad
Nic Newman - Mitch Mcgovern - Dan Houston
Blake Acres - Patrick Cripps - Ollie Hollands
Joe Berry - Charlie Curnow - Lachie Fogarty
Ashton Moir - Harry Mckay - Malcolm Rosas
Tom Dekoning - Sam Walsh - Adam Cerra

I/C from: Jack Silvagni - Elijah Hollands - Zac Williams - Sam Docherty - Lachie Cowan - Cooper Lord - Billie Wilson

Doesn't look too bad. Still feels like a piece missing from somewhere when looking at it on paper. Would really love to see Wilson or Cowan find a way into the midfield mix next year.

Can't slot Kennedy or Hewett in? Not even on the extended I/C?

 

[BolshyAust]

So hypothetically speaking the names we've been linked to all get done


Our 2025 team might look like...

Nick Haynes Jacob Weitering - Adam Saad
Nic Newman - Mitch Mcgovern - Dan Houston
Blake Acres - Patrick Cripps - Ollie Hollands
Joe Berry - Charlie Curnow - Lachie Fogarty
Ashton Moir - Harry Mckay - Malcolm Rosas
Tom Dekoning - Sam Walsh - Adam Cerra

I/C from: Jack Silvagni - Elijah Hollands - Zac Williams - Sam Docherty - Lachie Cowan - Cooper Lord - Billie Wilson

Doesn't look too bad. Still feels like a piece missing from somewhere when looking at it on paper. Would really love to see Wilson or Cowan find a way into the midfield mix next year.

Big improvements, but we are -

Still reliant on Weitering only, shutting down the monsters.

Still slow inside the centre square.

Still hoping that there is a cohesive plan of forward line entries and not just bombing it long.

Looking at the team like that, convinces me even more of how we do not need to spend all of our trade chips on Houston despite his talent. At bare minimum, we lose pick 11 for him when we have Doc, Cowan, Wilson who could take that role on the HBF. I agree that Houston is a better option but I would like to keep pick 11 more.