List Mgmt. 2024 List Management Part 2 📃

[katmanblue]

Whateley reckons Owies is bound for Essendon or Melbourne.

I will genuinely spew if the former arises

Good on him if he can go and get paid.

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[gbatman]

This is what I love about Wells as a recruiter and Scott as a coach. They requested Holmes because he had the outside speed and they identified that their team lacked that aspect.

They also recruited and drafted Close, Stengle, Miers.... This helped with the small ball approach to complement their list.

We have attempted over time to address our list needs. Wilson, Philip, Saad are a few examples of players selected for their speed and we've just not nailed a selection currently from the draft.

Still annoyed we skipped Rivers but I thought the Hawks were crazy selecting the Wizard with pick 5, but they seemed to be ahead of the curve with regards to gameplay.

Motlop has not really progressed to become that small forward we required. Moir needs to work on his tank and he looks like a great forward option.

I still think kicking skills can make any player look quicker than their baseline speed. Pendlebury can make the game slow down around him due to his vision and ability.
Kemp has the attacking kicking mindset I love, but just needs to learn the correct combination of attack and defense. We need to learn to switch the play a little more and that is across all phases of the game, from our mids to our backs.

They are one of the best in the game. We haven't touched the onball group. Our onball group, we never run the ball from stoppage, not since we got rid of Dow. We never run opposition players down, well Walsh does but the rest can't and don't. The best teams in the game close on you or the loose ball so damn quick compares to us it's not funny. Teams just run the ball out of stoppages so much it's embarrasing how we can't run them down.

We have added a bit of pace to the backline and that's it. The onball group and the forward line doesn't have much.

Cat's are the best in the business. Hawthorn, Collingwood and Sydney have dominated this competition for decades. Levels above us on all aspects.

We really have not recruited well. Small forwards and midfielders who have closing speed, agility and pace. These have become some of the most important players in the game and we are missing the mark here.

 

[gbatman]

Geelong are always willing to give older talented players a go. Sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Higgins and Dahlhaus were on their list and failed in their last premiership season. Didn't stop them winning it. They won't be too worried if Martin fails or not.

 

[jj1978]

So do we get to start singing;

"We got our Haynes all over this country. We got our Haynes all over the world. We got our Haynes all over this boy and boy, we've got Haynes all over this girl. You listen to this story, just one thing to do. Just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait, till we getta Haynes on you!"

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NAMKSr7Kho&t=31s&rco=1

 

[The Bighouse]

Should send our Gov there

And our Saad..

 

[DangerousD]

With all these flaws we’ve had in the foward line this year. We were still the second highest scoring team.

Yet we slipped from 4th best defensively in 2023 to 14th this year.

I honestly just think Voss went looking to attack more and it left us exposed at the back

 

[katmanblue]

Coops93

just picking up on this data..

Note Sam Walsh is 5th worst kick..(Kennedy is 1st for worst kick inside 50)

Which sort of highlights the point I was trying to make earlier...

It shows its more of a game plan issue rather than the ability of the player..

We as a team long bomb into f50 so it makes sense that two of our mids are in the top 5 for worst kicks into f50.

Walsh has 50% kicking efficiency. That includes long kicks to a contest.

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[The Bighouse]

Yet we slipped from 4th best defensively in 2023 to 14th this year.

I honestly just think Voss went looking to attack more and it left us exposed at the back

Different layers. Now to combine the good & bin the bad.

 

[jj1978]

Different layers. Now to combine the good & bin the bad.

The good ole layers trick.

 

[Monty1978]

I find this hilarious, guess what - we do not want Hewett in the midfield next season! It doesn’t ****ing work!
Our mid mix is shit, they are not contested beasts & it all falls apart across the ground from there!

Sure Kennedy might have a higher trade value - but we ****ed that up completely by telling him to explore options so early, so that angle is gone.

What we are left with is Hewett who is bog stock avg - no other string to his bow & easily replaceable.
Watch Hew get named continually & see the kids suffer, minimal mid rotations & it’s just the same shit all over again.

We should 100% be looking past him, at least Matty can do the job and still contribute in other ways - he’s a smart footballer.

Every thing you have just said doesn’t relate to my post .. I said Hewitt is better then Kennedy for Carlton in the midfield and gave my reasoning after someone else asked the question, and he will play lots of games next year and suprised he got dropped this year, the only thing hilarious is you getting all worked up over a post, guess what mate they are trying to change the mix , Kennedy doesn’t have the value you think , he is the one that’s bog average not Hewitt hence getting the flick … what game are you watching !!!

 

[gbatman]

Our clearance game peaked imo with Dow, Kennedy and Cripps last season.

Cripps is king but Walsh is awful kicking inside 50 too and Hewett lacks hurt factor. Cerra we ran into the ground and now we are acting like Kennedy isn't good enough. In a final where we conceded the first 10 goals our MC thought Kennedy was worth subbing out over Fantasia, Williams, Durdin, Motlop, Cerra, Docherty.....

I dislike our name over structure approach to team selection. Kennedy's perception amongst the fanbase would be a lot better if he actually played mid more often. Carlton has a lot of 3-8 disposal per game c graders who get their preferred role more often than Kennedy did and it was a joke how we ran Cerra into the ground instead. It seems like we learnt nothing from how even Dow in 23 still offered more than Hewett did with a broken hand....

Dow was good last season and dropping him for finals was a mistake as he offered a point of difference. A fit Dow would have been good this season for us as well.

But he had no trade value. That was our fault for not playing him when we really should have been.

Hewett has no trade value. He came to us cheap and would leave us cheaply.

We aren't trading Kennedy because we don't rate him. We are trading him because we can offload a big slow mid and it won't effect us and he has trade value. It's he or Hewett who we need to trade and there is no value in trading Hewett.

We also need to change our midfield makeup and build a quicker more agile one. That means probably both Hewett and Kennedy need to be replaced. But one may have to stay at least another season as either best 22 player or a good reserve mid.

I hate our coach's names over output selection as well. Problem is we need to get belted before he changes his mind. Dow should have played a lot more last season. Even though his defensive work wasn't great. He gave us run and carry we didn't have and we won big games with him in the side. I spoke at length about how Voss is "gutless" and got scared when it came to team selection and dropped players he should have trusted but didn't last year when finals came around.

Dow was one of them. But Fisher at half back and Cuningham at half forward and Owies forward pocket were others. Fisher gave us run and rebound we severely lacked, chose to play a completely cooked Cincotto instead. Cuningham was one of our best defensive half forwards, the running half backs don't get away from him but he was dropped for Brisbane and Coleman feasted on us. Owies was also a reliable goal kicker and accountable forward who was dropped.

I actually believe we may have been a genuine chance against the Lions last season if Voss held his nerve going into finals and didn't drop Dow, Cuningham or Fisher.

History repeated itself again this finals series. Gutless Vossy got scared and dropped some well performing young players again for names. Completely ballsed up team selection. At least this time it wasn't glossed over by two very lucky finals wins. This time it was obvious.

The problem with Voss is he doesn't trust players enough and gets finals anxiety. Finals are just another game. Only difference is you play good sides and everyone has a crack but the rules don't change, it's still the same game. Voss has chickened out when it comes to team selection during the season but has been really bad when it comes to finals. It's one of the many reason why Carlton needs a quality senior assistant who has been there and performed there.

I know our team isn't flash and needs some quality additions but the coach also needs to get the best out of it and the players.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Debatable. This year certainly not for obvious reasons, I'd argue in '23 he was.

I'd be waiting for an injury-free year before calling it a failed trade.

He's 24!!!! He's going to play 200+ for Carlton in a canter. 200+ guaranteed is worth way more than pick 6.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

exactly...he'll play like 19/20 games, kick 50 goals. Nothing surer.

Bahaha, zero chance of happening


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[HarryFlashman]

Every thing you have just said doesn’t relate to my post .. I said Hewitt is better then Kennedy for Carlton in the midfield and gave my reasoning after someone else asked the question, and he will play lots of games next year and suprised he got dropped this year, the only thing hilarious is you getting all worked up over a post, guess what mate they are trying to change the mix , Kennedy doesn’t have the value you think , he is the one that’s bog average not Hewitt hence getting the flick … what game are you watching !!!

Wasn’t haven’t a go at it u, just that the tried mid mix doesn’t work, throwing Doc in as a rotation doesn’t help either.
It’s got me ****ed how Hew is now some great & important part of our mid mix, reason he can rack up touches is the other team gives no ****s as he has zero hurt factor - there happy for him to have it as it’s almost guaranteed to go backwards and not come out of there fast.
Kennedy is now painted as a kicking liability and we are fine with him going

 

[Accidental genius]

Walsh has 50% kicking efficiency. That includes long kicks to a contest.

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missing every 2nd kick for an accumulator like walsh is a worry ...lots of kicks not going where they should

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Motlop has not really progressed to become that small forward we required.

Statistically Motlop's 23 was not a mile off Watson's 24. If Jesse could milk a high tackle half as well they would be very close.

The Motlop bandwagon blew an axle out this year, but it will roll again.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Cerra probably wins our BNF last season if he didn't get injured against Collingwood. 2024 we can write off due to injury and poor management but I don't think he is a bust.

I think that is why he’s viewed by many here as a failure. 6 hamstring injuries in 2 seasons is pretty bad. Yes probably bad management by the High Performance and Strength & Conditioning team, but at some point the individual has to take responsibility for not knowing his body well enough.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think that is why he’s viewed by many here as a failure. 6 hamstring injuries in 2 seasons is pretty bad. Yes probably bad management by the High Performance and Strength & Conditioning team, but at some point the individual has to take responsibility for not knowing his body well enough.

Have some humans developed a new sense I'm unaware of? I didn't realise you could know a muscle was about to tear.

Seems a pretty unfair advantage to me!

Hamstrings are nasty. They can feel fine and then not. There's often not warning on subsequent tears and due to the nature of the muscle it's quite difficult to strength test the right 'string'.

Maybe there's also just possibly a teeny tiny element of the players haven't had a choice in how hard they've been required to push under Voss and Russell too. Especially after the 'learnings' from last year's prelim loss was - we need to be fitter and stronger so we don't run out of steam. Not that we need to rotate and manage better. All in on being even fitter and even stronger...... Hamstring nightmare. If a player opts out in this situations what happens next... Can't do this session Vossy we're training too hard. Creates a new separate set of issues

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Statistically Motlop's 23 was not a mile off Watson's 24. If Jesse could milk a high tackle half as well they would be very close.

The Motlop bandwagon blew an axle out this year, but it will roll again.

Motlops 23 was miles off Watsons 24.

2.0 shots on goal vs 3.4
1.1 goals vs 1.4 goals
0.3 behinds vs 1.5 behinds
0.3 GA's vs 0.7 GA's
3.8 SI's vs 5.6 SI's


It's not even close. If Watson had have kicked an average accuracy at goals he'd have kicked close to 40 goals this season

 

[M_I_G]

Nathan cooper
Full back in VFL team of the year even tho he only played about 12 games
Could do worse

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Motlops 23 was miles off Watsons 24.

2.0 shots on goal vs 3.4
1.1 goals vs 1.4 goals
0.3 behinds vs 1.5 behinds
0.3 GA's vs 0.7 GA's
3.8 SI's vs 5.6 SI's


It's not even close. If Watson had have kicked an average accuracy at goals he'd have kicked close to 40 goals this season

Watson was a top 5 pick and a classic example of hyper skilled player who would have likely gone higher had they not been of such small stature. Hardly a fully fair comparison with Motlop (albeit Motlop more experienced). Would love Watson in our side.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

West coast and north Melbourne interested in Young according to the age

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Watson was a top 5 pick and a classic example of hyper skilled player who would have likely gone higher had they not been of such small stature. Hardly a fully fair comparison with Motlop (albeit Motlop more experienced). Would love Watson in our side.

I'm not the one who made the comparison, just correcting an incorrect statement about Motlop.

Ive said for a while now with the value of small forwards skyrocketing in the modern game the best bet you have is taking the high end talents like Watson, Rankine, Rachelle etc even if it's a steep price to pay.

I can't think of the last top 15 talented small fwd who's been a bust. Recruiters have seemingly honed in on what makes them guns more so than in the past and top end smalls are impacting more and more.

Part of the reason I'm all in on Berry even if pick 11 seems like overs to some. He's a specialist in the role and the best one available this year. Not as elite as Watson but can imagine he'll have a similarly impactful first season.

 

[Kruezing]

Can anyone read the article?

Geez ‘Breaking’ I’ve never seen a headline as accurate as this … unfortunately

 

[sweethoney]

Dersken has asked to be traded to victoria

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1222837