- Dec 6, 2020
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Your initial post specifically said first round picks. So not sure what your point is above, not all our “guns” are first round picks.
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List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets
- Thread starter go_the_dockers
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Lions gave up pick 12 for Charlie Cameron, who wanted to move for family reasons.
He was also contracted.
Where you sell the farm for is for a player like Jeremy Cameron, but two thirds
of that deal was the picks that they received for Tim Kelly from the eagles.
So Geelong lost their 4th best mid to get the best forward in the AFL.
He was also contracted.
Where you sell the farm for is for a player like Jeremy Cameron, but two thirds
of that deal was the picks that they received for Tim Kelly from the eagles.
So Geelong lost their 4th best mid to get the best forward in the AFL.
They've ramped it up again. It's now:
5, 12, 20 for Rioli
Going to be some devastated Tigers fans come October. Should go over to their board and encourage them.
- Thread starter
- #12,704
I see this trade being closer to Kelly trade than either Cameron.
The issue is he is not a top 20 player in the comp. I am not sure he is in the top 40 best players either. I see him more as somewhere between 60 and 80th best player in the comp. (The same as Kelly and Gibbs were not top 40 players in the comp)
He has made one all Australian, has made the all Australian squad a couple times, and is good for 30 goals a year. He is currently 25th of the goal kick ladder, having played pretty much all games.
I still think he plays his best football up the ground (50% forward pocket, 25% midfield, 25% wing or high half forward) so does not really solve our forward pocket issue that well.
Then you add he averages 4 clangers a game, kicks as many points as goals, is contracted for 4 years, and this is so high risk. Just because he has won a few flags, does not make him a great players. including than one bag of 3 goals in finals (against St Kilda in an semi final) he only has kicked 4 goals 4 in 7 games leading to his two grand finals. Hardly the difference maker.
He is not the player you give up two first round picks for. If you believe he is, can you provide me some stats to show he is worth the cost both in salary cap and draft picks?
33 goals is just not enough.
I really hope we are not too desperate (I see too many supporters are becoming inpatient), and we end up massively overpaying e.g. Weller for pick 2, Kelly for 14, 24, 37 and future first round pick.
The Jeremy Cameron trade was
No.13, 15 and 20
For
Cameron, giants second-round selection and a future second-round selection tied to Essendon (end up being 24 and 27).
and Jeremy Cameron is clearly in the top 10 players in the comp when fit.
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- Thread starter
- #12,705
They would have said the same about us, when we said we would get pick 2 for Weller.
The issue GC and us will have is, if Richmond start at such an outlandish starting point, if you meet them in the middle you are still paying way way overs.
Freo got r1 &2 for shulz,,,lol that’s right . Has he ever finished top 5 in bf . Shai never been out of it , also AA and dual premiership star . You guys will likely miss finals if you think a draft pic will help build that bridge you’re kidding , shai Bolton would make a significant diff . Bolton can play midfield and forward line shulz and Cameron can’t will kick over 30 this year and hasn’t had that great a year
OOC he's worth pick 9-12 on its own. The 4 years means we basically have to pay as if we're getting the best possible version of him (2022 or better).
The reality is, we have no small on our list capable of getting 80 shots on goal (ignoring OOB) or even the 60 he's had this year. Our smalls this year:
Switta - 20
Freddy - 39
Banners - 33
Emmett - 11 (13)
Sonny - 29 (16)
He's having a mediocre year and he's still kicked more goals than all but one of our small forwards have had shots for the year and he's doing it in the spoon team.
He's also and excellent centre bounce player and a genuine point of difference in midfield with the speed/agility combo.
And to add to that he is literally the only gettable option for us in this calibre of player.
That's why we'd take the risk (and it is a risk) on him with 2 firsts.
The VERY big difference there was that was GC, who literally could not attract anyone but mostly the fact that Lachie was an absolute legend, went on trade radio and said that the GC had told him they'll get it done no matter what.
So as long as we haven't said anything stupid like that to Shai, I think we're ok.
If GC are stupid enough to do it, I will just laugh rather than get worried about it.
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Taylor
Community Leader
Pick 34 and a future first for Schultz.
You will probably get our first and our second rounder with a future first
thrown in if we fold.
Or unless someone is leaving Freo, those picks will be on the table.
Think we will be reasonable but this could backfire similar to the Hogan trade.
Some players should stay away from WA, especially if there are concerns on
their character and outside influences.
- Aug 30, 2013
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Got a clip?
- Thread starter
- #12,711
Do you think he is in the top 40 best players in the comp?
Top 60?
Top 80?
I have him top 80, but not top 60.
I see Brisbane having issues with Danniher taking shots from everywhere, and other players getting frustrated with him. I hope we don't get to the same point with Bolton.
He could have 1000 shots on goal, and it wouldn't help us win the game if the ball doesn't go through the big sticks. That is like saying Amiss has had a better year than Treacy, as he has had 3 more scoring shots than him.
I am just repeating myself, but in the end it comes to how highly you rate him. and I don't rate him high enough to justify two
The only way I see us getting close to a fair trade is if we do something similar to what Geelong did with Cameron
e.g. 9, 15 for Bolton and a future 2nd.
Leave us with 10, 25 plus a good amount of points next year to match the NGA's.
We will pay overs and there’ll be opposition boards laughing at us and many here who will be ready to set fire to the club, but unless he goes completely off the rails it wont be added to the list of crazy-Freo trades.
Bolton gives JL an enormous boost for a contract extension and puts Serong in the forward line when he needs a rest.
If Bolton wants to be at Freo, we will get it done. We have 4 1st rounders to play with to get Bolton and Warner, I’d be happy to use all 4 to bring those two in.
The thought of Darcy at the centre bounce hitting it left to a running Young or right to a running Bolton is just a little bit exciting. I think Jye might think so too.
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Bolton gives JL an enormous boost for a contract extension and puts Serong in the forward line when he needs a rest.
If Bolton wants to be at Freo, we will get it done. We have 4 1st rounders to play with to get Bolton and Warner, I’d be happy to use all 4 to bring those two in.
The thought of Darcy at the centre bounce hitting it left to a running Young or right to a running Bolton is just a little bit exciting. I think Jye might think so too.
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I don't care about where he is rated in the comp, I care about what he brings to us.
What are you trying to argue here? That Switta kicking at 75% for 11 goals is somehow better than Bolton kicking at 50% for 40?
And Treacy is having a better year than Amiss partly because of the accuracy, but mostly because his game is more than just goals.
- Apr 15, 2013
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I don't have any inside information, but I do think we will take a 1st round pick to the draft.
Bolton will get to Freo. It's just makes too much sense for both clubs and is good business.
Bolton will get to Freo. It's just makes too much sense for both clubs and is good business.
- Thread starter
- #12,715
I guess I don't compare him to our existing players, I just look at his value. Yes his is big upgrade on our existing players, but he is not worth the cost to bring him in.
I think we could fill the hole but drafting Berry, getting Winder, and trading in Richards, and then draft two other players like Lalor, Hotton or Travaglia and be in a better spot.
The question is how do we improve the most.
Get Bolton for pick 9 and 15
or
going to the draft.
I am arguing that we are better off going to the draft than getting Bolton.
FYI - I am happy to get Baker, Warner next year
I’d be happy with pic 9/10, it’s good deal for you guys too . Bolton’s credentials are superior to any of the examples been given , bf finishes , Aa 2 seasons ago he plays midfield and f50 . Cameron at time of trade was 4 seasons in , hadn’t kicked > 29goals yet
Bolton creates shots on goal. He has elite speed and is not afraid to pull the trigger, something we lack up front.
He will increase our inside 50 count and shots from our entries, even if he is not that accurate. I really don’t see the issue and think our leverage can be used to pay more in trade so Richmond smooth out his contract. Bolton might even take a bit less to get back to WA if he is desperate to move.
He’s also in his prime, if a gun wants to move you don’t freak out about the weaknesses in their game. You get them in the door.
It is highly unlikely that the contributions 2 draftees make are anywhere near what Bolton can do on his own in 2025 and 2026. Best case scenario, you might get something similar in 2027. And that is assuming the picks are hits. Bolton isn't perfect, but he's already demonstrated AA quality.
Whilst our window should be close to a decade long given the age of our KPFs and midfielders, we do have a clock on our defenders. AP and Ryan in particular are closing in on 30. It makes sense to try and strike as soon as next year given we're getting very close to the required age/experience profile.
Then you have the problem of draftees being stuck at Peel because we're contending so they won't be gifted games. There's a very real chance that we take 3 first rounders and they play less than 20 games between them over the next two years.
I love the draft, but taking 2 first rounders over an AA level player, in his prime, in a position we're crying out for is completely unjustifiable.
I wonder what the comparison stats would look like if they included all snaps falling short or over passing in the fwd 50 being cut off?
- Thread starter
- #12,720
I don't think he is a gun player.
As I have said above, he is probably in the top 80 players in the comp, but not in the top 60 players in the comp.
DRAGONS FFC - Moderator
- #12,721
King > swans
Switta + f1 > saints
Warner > Freo
Switta + f1 > saints
Warner > Freo
In our dreams, sure.
Top 80 puts him in the 4-5 best players in each team. Sounds like a gun to me.
It was a dumb post I agree. As if Walls would thump his fist on the desk and say 1 first rounder or we wait till he’s out of contract before putting his pinky to the corner of his mouth.in 4 years
Just to be clear, I fully expect to get really frustrated at Bolton missing sodas next year, but I'd still prefer he miss 20 easy ones if he's going to kick another 40.
Never mind the stuff he can do in the middle.
Never mind the stuff he can do in the middle.
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