List Mgmt. 2024 List Management thread - Trade Targets Part 2

[vidwhal]

If we’re a genuinely serious football club we better replace him with some one decent from outside the club.

None of this shuffling the deck chairs shit again like we did when Carr left

Adam Simpson would be nice.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

So.... we're going hard to play in a prelim next season, but we have no eye on the future....?

Trading all the picks. Leaving the likes of Raz at Peel in favour of playing the likes of JOM and other older players instead of getting games into the youth. Possibly losing NOD and bringing in more 30 year old rejects from other clubs(Martin). Yeah it's short sighted and desperate. Anyone who thinks JL is getting the most out of this group has rocks in their head.

Now I'm all for trading the picks for QUALITY Bolton Warner Pickett but if all the top tier names don't happen I don't want to trade the picks just for the sake of it and waste them on older washed up role players just so the club can point to it and say look we did stuff.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

Lol an AFL coach getting sacked after making finals is a once in generation event if not less. It’s not happening for JL.

We finished 5th and won a final 2 years ago. He should already be gone.

 

[BStaff17]

Amiss is better than Cerra

I'm glad he left

Young has basically replaced Cerra.

Has a higher ceiling and will be a better player if not already


And its a small thing thing but a will to win.

It's not Cerra doesn't want it but it's still that laconic attitude wheas Young will fight over scrap and bone in the tough contested stuff just slightly harder

 

[PurpleGreenRed]

I agree.

However we have been slow on the uptake on this trend with our list management.

Historically freo don’t value small forwards highly.
We think they can be taken with late and rookie picks. Not sure we have ever used a first round pick in the draft on one. Certainly not in recent times.

History suggest the idea of using a top 10 pick on a small forward is a horror movie to David Walls and the list management team.

Hopefully that’s changed this year. If we got Bolton and Joe berry it would go a nice way to fixing the gap we have.

We will win nothing in September if still relying on Switta, Banfield and Emmett in those positions

I don’t think Emmett’s been given a fair chance. Switta seems to have moved back a bit into a link role. Whatever - the forward 50 pressure was noticeable by its absence this year…so while small forwards are a priority they must have this element to their game

 

[Docker82]

We finished 5th and won a final 2 years ago. He should already be gone.

Oh I agree but given we’ve kept him if we make finals he’s staying for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately whether AFL coaches keep their jobs is mostly based off results only when you make finals and not results compared to list quality. Across the board were lenient as a competition on coaches that underperform with great lists - for example the Western Bulldogs have a better list than week one of finals but no one is talking about Beveridge’s job at all.

This isn’t the Premier League where Guardiola or Arteta would probably be sacked for finishing 5th.

 

[Heave Ho Bro]

Oh I agree but given we’ve kept him if we make finals he’s staying for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately whether AFL coaches keep their jobs is mostly based off results only when you make finals and not results compared to list quality. Across the board were lenient as a competition on coaches that underperform with great lists - for example the Western Bulldogs have a better list than week one or finals but no one is talking about Beveridge’s job at all.

Only because he got them a flag. Buys a lot of goodwill but it must be running out now. They have underperformed for years.

 

[malpaso]

Don't think I'm going ahead on this one at all. He's not Pearce, Ryan or Cox but he's best 22 for a lot of teams throughout the competition IMO.

Unlike Logue I think he's worth doing everything we can to keep. He can actually kick for a start.

He's NOT a state league player.

That doesn't mean you boot out other players in the first-picked side or unbalance the squad.

 

[malpaso]

Kennedy aint that good, no way he gets a gig at GWS

Saints he probs would but 28 next year so ehh

Wouldn't get a gig in our midfield unless we throw Johnson out, not worth that at all, Johnsons ceiling is way higher

Blues have a lot of those average midfielders, can see why they'd ask him to look elsewhere

Thing is though they play him forward a lot of times, when there have been injuries and he's played FT mid, he has performed. He's no lightweight in there but your right about who comes out in order for him to play.

 

[go_the_dockers]

We finished 5th and won a final 2 years ago. He should already be gone.

Oh I agree but given we’ve kept him if we make finals he’s staying for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately whether AFL coaches keep their jobs is mostly based off results only when you make finals and not results compared to list quality. Across the board were lenient as a competition on coaches that underperform with great lists - for example the Western Bulldogs have a better list than week one of finals but no one is talking about Beveridge’s job at all.

This isn’t the Premier League where Guardiola or Arteta would probably be sacked for finishing 5th.

Watching the finals have confirmed to me that our small forwards are not good enough.

Watson, Ginnivan, Moore almost won the final for Hawks, Greene was brilliant for GWS, Rioli won the final for Port.
Geelong has Stengle who was brilliant in their final.

If we add two small forwards, who can bring forward pressure and kick 60 goals between them then we win 4 more games this year.

Our small forwards this year are below, and only Switta bring good forward pressure.
Walters - 17 games, 17 goals
Frederick - 20 games, 23 goals
Switta - 20 games 12 goals

Our top 3 small forwards should be kicking at least 70 goals every year, ours only kicked 50. Give JL some good small forwards, and lets see how he goes.

 

[malpaso]

Watching the finals have confirmed to me that our small forwards are not good enough.

Watson, Ginnivan, Moore almost won the final for Hawks, Greene was brilliant for GWS, Rioli won the final for Port.
Geelong has Stengle who was brilliant in their final.

If we add two small forwards, who can bring forward pressure and kick 60 goals between them then we win 4 more games this year.

Our small forwards this year are below, and only Switta bring good forward pressure.
Walters - 17 games, 17 goals
Frederick - 20 games, 23 goals
Switta - 20 games 12 goals

Our top 3 small forwards should be kicking at least 70 goals every year, ours only kicked 50. Give JL some good small forwards, and lets see how he goes.

Walters will not and should not be in the starting 23 next season. Our ball movement improved this year yet he went downwards, that's a double bad scenario.

I'm really hopeful of Bolton & Pickett. To me that makes our forwardline so very deadly and the ability of Switta/Frederick/Bolton/Pickett to go up the ground and affect the contest as well.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Walters will not and should not be in the starting 23 next season. Our ball movement improved this year yet he went downwards, that's a double bad scenario.

I'm really hopeful of Bolton & Pickett. To me that makes our forwardline so very deadly and the ability of Switta/Frederick/Bolton/Pickett to go up the ground and affect the contest as well.

Agree with Walters, but who do you replace him with?

I think we need 3 more small forwards (Bolton plus 2), as none of Switta or Frederick are natural small forwards.

My ideal scenario is Berry, Bolton plus a mature age small forward. Even if one plays for Peel at the start, it will least give us options.

Switta and Frederick then play more midfield, which puts pressure on the other players to play better. I think Frederick would be a brilliant wing.

 

[Swiggy]

Agree with Walters, but who do you replace him with?

I think we need 3 more small forwards (Bolton plus 2), as none of Switta or Frederick are natural small forwards.

My ideal scenario is Berry, Bolton plus a mature age small forward. Even if one plays for Peel at the start, it will least give us options.

Switta and Frederick then play more midfield, which puts pressure on the other players to play better. I think Frederick would be a brilliant wing.

Not sure about Freddy he doesn't really tackle or chase now, i'd be worried about him on a wing

 

[arsesmart]

Watching the finals have confirmed to me that our small forwards are not good enough.

Watson, Ginnivan, Moore almost won the final for Hawks, Greene was brilliant for GWS, Rioli won the final for Port.
Geelong has Stengle who was brilliant in their final.

If we add two small forwards, who can bring forward pressure and kick 60 goals between them then we win 4 more games this year.

Our small forwards this year are below, and only Switta bring good forward pressure.
Walters - 17 games, 17 goals
Frederick - 20 games, 23 goals
Switta - 20 games 12 goals

Our top 3 small forwards should be kicking at least 70 goals every year, ours only kicked 50. Give JL some good small forwards, and lets see how he goes.

There are caveats though. Greene was pretty ordinary for the most part. Missed some crucial shots in the first final and made some pretty ordinary decisions and had execution issues all the way through.

Also Hawkfawn pretty much designed their game plan around their small forward fleet, after the KPF stocks were running dry. They also came into the finals with inflated form from such a juicy draw. And even then you could almost argue Dear was the pick of the forwards overall, given he performed best early on in their winning final to really keep them in it and get them going.

Ultimately though... it is undeniable we lack in the small forward dept, but they can be hard to find. Both Geelong and Port turned to players with behavioural issues to fill those roles, which underlines the challenges of both the position itself and finding players who can perform.

A good deal of tolerance is required to give small forwards space to develop. They infrequently appear out of nowhere.

 

[arsesmart]

Walters will not and should not be in the starting 23 next season. Our ball movement improved this year yet he went downwards, that's a double bad scenario.

I'm really hopeful of Bolton & Pickett. To me that makes our forwardline so very deadly and the ability of Switta/Frederick/Bolton/Pickett to go up the ground and affect the contest as well.

If he's performing he can get the gig. Simple as that.

Hopefully though, we're in a position we don't have to rely to any great extent on that happening. His body has become an occupant of Shaky Town and it's probably unlikely to move out of there as another season rolls around.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Not sure about Freddy he doesn't really tackle or chase now, i'd be worried about him on a wing

If he doesn't tackle enough for a wing, then he doesn't tackle enough for a forward.

May spend some time at Peel learning how to do it.

 

[fnerd]

Lol an AFL coach getting sacked after making finals is a once in generation event if not less. It’s not happening for JL.

Whilst true it’s also how you end up with the Ken Hinkleys of the world.

That’s my concern with jlo , we end up stuck with a decent but not great coach.
And unfortunately trying to win a flag from WA we need a great coach

 

[Taylor]

I don't care about Frederick's tackle numbers.

His highest impact games are where he is linking up through the middle and working back towards goal as fast as he can. There's a passage of footy where almost all those kicks to a big Treacy mark were off the boot of Frederick after we found him in the middle by himself because he was too fast for his opponent.

And opposition sides noticed it too and locked him down.

 

[go_the_dockers]

There are caveats though. Greene was pretty ordinary for the most part. Missed some crucial shots in the first final and made some pretty ordinary decisions and had execution issues all the way through.

Also Hawkfawn pretty much designed their game plan around their small forward fleet, after the KPF stocks were running dry. They also came into the finals with inflated form from such a juicy draw. And even then you could almost argue Dear was the pick of the forwards overall, given he performed best early on in their winning final to really keep them in it and get them going.

Ultimately though... it is undeniable we lack in the small forward dept, but they can be hard to find. Both Geelong and Port turned to players with behavioural issues to fill those roles, which underlines the challenges of both the position itself and finding players who can perform.

A good deal of tolerance is required to give small forwards space to develop. They infrequently appear out of nowhere.

Bolton, Berry and a mature age small forward should be pretty easy to do. The club just needs to prioritise this need over all others needs, and accept they won't get much else done this year.

Bolton for 10 and 17
Berry at 9
A mature ager who has kicked 40+ goals.

Matt Johnson (Frankston) is the one that I like, but that is only from watching highlights so I am sure there are better players around.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Rank em as players and say what you think they are going to be traded for. ANB, Baker, Kennedy...

 

[Ge3ks]

I don't care about Frederick's tackle numbers.

His highest impact games are where he is linking up through the middle and working back towards goal as fast as he can. There's a passage of footy where almost all those kicks to a big Treacy mark were off the boot of Frederick after we found him in the middle by himself because he was too fast for his opponent.

And opposition sides noticed it too and locked him down.

Not to mention Freddy's impressive set shot accuracy.

 

[arsesmart]

I don't care about Frederick's tackle numbers.

His highest impact games are where he is linking up through the middle and working back towards goal as fast as he can. There's a passage of footy where almost all those kicks to a big Treacy mark were off the boot of Frederick after we found him in the middle by himself because he was too fast for his opponent.

And opposition sides noticed it too and locked him down.

Yeah Frederick's biggest asset is the power he brings to ball movement. He's got that freakish ability to gain crucial separation distance, often from standing right next to an opposition player. Then scythe through their defensive structures to bring the ball in to our i50 where forwards then have all sorts of options to create havoc.

 

[Dockeroo]

Rank em and say what you think they are going to be traded for. ANB, Baker, Kennedy...

1. Baker
2. Kennedy
3. Neal Bullen

1. Pick 18 or so
2. Pick 23 or thereabouts
3. Pick 25

Kennedy could be cheaper if they are actually pushing him out. Maybe pick 30.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

1. Baker
2. Kennedy
3. Neal Bullen

1. Pick 18 or so
2. Pick 23 or thereabouts
3. Pick 25

You'd have Baker ahead of Kennedy? Interesting. Maybe I overrate Kennedy but I'd have him ahead.

Think due to selling intent, he'll be the cheapest of the lot as well

 

[go_the_dockers]

Rank em and say what you think they are going to be traded for. ANB, Baker, Kennedy...

1. Bolton - 10 and 17, hopefully with something coming back
2. Barrass. Hawks first, F1 for Barrass and Future 2nd
3. Baker - Eagles 2nd Rounder or 25 depending on the club
4. ANB - Crows 2nd
5. Kennedy - late pick (3rd rounder roughly). Has been pushed out really.
6. Martin - WAFL
7.

Need a full list of players.