Training 2024 Preseason Thread

[Bluelegs]

Genuine questions, I'm not picking an argument I just find this an interesting topic.

Does Sparrows existence allow Trac and the others to spend more time forward and do they make the forward line more dangerous?

If Sparrow is next in line, does Oliver's potential issues and Vineys age make him less disposable?

I'd have agreed with you before James Jordan left but after Sparrow who is depth for you as an inside mid?

Petracca spending more time forward brings guys like Viney and Brayshaw into the game. Viney especially had his best year last year after Oliver went down.

Sparrow might get a bit more of it due to the extra opportunity but I'm not sure he's ever been in the top 5 players on the ground.

 

[Topkent]

Genuine questions, I'm not picking an argument I just find this an interesting topic.

Does Sparrows existence allow Trac and the others to spend more time forward and do they make the forward line more dangerous?

If Sparrow is next in line, does Oliver's potential issues and Vineys age make him less disposable?

I'd have agreed with you before James Jordan left but after Sparrow who is depth for you as an inside mid?

So some here would agree with you about the inside depth and that he allows Trac to play forward. I don't think you need inside depth, I think Collingwood just won the flag and they have barely any genuine inside players meanwhile we have inside players playing on the half forward flank who add nothing.
I hate the mix of our midfield. I think you can play Oliver as the only inside mid rotating with Viney. Viney is the depth, if Oliver's out then spread the minutes to other players who play differently. Having a dominant ruck then stacking the midfield with ball winners makes no sense, you should be playing blokes who can use the footy.

 

[Lord Nev]

Genuine questions, I'm not picking an argument I just find this an interesting topic.

Does Sparrows existence allow Trac and the others to spend more time forward and do they make the forward line more dangerous?

If Sparrow is next in line, does Oliver's potential issues and Vineys age make him less disposable?

I'd have agreed with you before James Jordan left but after Sparrow who is depth for you as an inside mid?

You've encountered a classic Melbourne whipping boy syndrome right at the point of it building momentum. I'm sure it's not just Dees fans that do this, but there's a massive propensity on this forum to judge every player as either a gun or a dud, no middle ground whatsoever. Expecting Sparrow, a 23 year old former pick 27, to be a gun and if he's anything less then he's a failure is pretty clearly over the top.

Sparrow is nothing special at this stage, and might never be, but with Harmes, Dunstan and Jordon gone, Oliver with issues, and Viney 30 soon he absolutely is valuable as depth. It's also important to note he's not purely an inside mid - He's averaged 0.6 centre clearances over his career, so he's not been played as an inside bull like some seem to think.

Watching on the weekend, we had ANB, Billings, Laurie and Kozzy attending centre bounces, I think that highlights where the 'inside mid' depth is at, none of them are that.

 

[JimmyR20]

So some here would agree with you about the inside depth and that he allows Trac to play forward. I don't think you need inside depth, I think Collingwood just won the flag and they have barely any genuine inside players meanwhile we have inside players playing on the half forward flank who add nothing.
I hate the mix of our midfield. I think you can play Oliver as the only inside mid rotating with Viney. Viney is the depth, if Oliver's out then spread the minutes to other players who play differently. Having a dominant ruck then stacking the midfield with ball winners makes no sense, you should be playing blokes who can use the footy.

This makes sense.

Is the below the correct order?

Trac
Oliver
Viney
Sparrow


If so given the uncertainty around Oliver and Viney not getting any younger perhaps Sparrow is still good to have on the list under your scenario, just not in the best 22?

 

[Dory_77]

IMO, ideally Sparrow turns into what Harmes was a couple of years ago - can do a bit in the midfield, shutdown an opponent, drift forward and snag a couple of goals. He has the tools where he should be able to do that, unfortunately he's never done it consistently. He's been the 5th mid/6th forward for several years now and not made either spot his own.

 

[Squarky]

He reminds me of Zac Bailey - maybe a little less explosive, but very agile (won the agility testing at combine?), good overhead, can kick goals and set them up and a good runner.

I haven't seen a second of Tholstrup, but if he ends up being half as good as Zac Bailey, I'll be thrilled. I rate Bailey enormously.

 

[Topkent]

IMO, ideally Sparrow turns into what Harmes was a couple of years ago - can do a bit in the midfield, shutdown an opponent, drift forward and snag a couple of goals. He has the tools where he should be able to do that, unfortunately he's never done it consistently. He's been the 5th mid/6th forward for several years now and not made either spot his own.

Harmes kicked multiple goals 8 times in his career before the end of the season when he was 23 years old. 7 of those were 3 or more.

Sparrow has done it once in his career

Harmes kicked .69 a game (44 in 69 )

Sparrows kicked .38 goals a game ( 27 in 72)

Harmes played way better footy for us than Sparrow ever has

 

[Topkent]

This makes sense.

Is the below the correct order?

Trac
Oliver
Viney
Sparrow


If so given the uncertainty around Oliver and Viney not getting any younger perhaps Sparrow is still good to have on the list under your scenario, just not in the best 22?

As a pure inside mid Oliver, Trac, Viney, Sparrow

Trac better forward by a mile then the rest. Honestly still no for me, worst case you can pick up an inside mid cheap either in the draft or for trade. Swans just got Taylor Adams for nothing, he's way better than Sparrow

 

[Scythe94]

One thing that definitely was disappointing yesterday – in a practice game with no Oliver or Brayshaw, Rivers didn't attend a single centre bounce.

Seems like a wasted opportunity – we can probably put the hopes of a midfield shift to bed, at least for now.

 

[Lord Nev]

One thing that definitely was disappointing yesterday – in a practice game with no Oliver or Brayshaw, Rivers didn't attend a single centre bounce.

Seems like a wasted opportunity – we can probably put the hopes of a midfield shift to bed, at least for now.

Might not have been totally wasted IF it helped them realize Laurie is still miles off.

 

[Scythe94]

Might not have been totally wasted IF it helped them realize Laurie is still miles off.

Yeah, the internal noise/hype around him from the club reminds me of the way they were pumping up Toumpas was coming into his second year.

Was unfounded then, seems fairly unfounded now. Not writing him off altogether, but I don't really see it yet.

 

[Mich0]

Blokes who would be better off in the guts than Sparrow

Established
———
Oliver
Petracca
Viney
Brayshaw
ANB

Developing
——-
Kozzie
Rivers
Laurie
Bowey
Windsor

Hell, I will even go as far to say I would rather we run blokes like Salem, Billings or Spargo through the guts, at least they can hit a target.

We have 4-5 established guys who are better than Sparrow in the guts and another 4-5 who would be more valuable developing through there. Another 3 listed who would provide a point of difference.

I got 13 guys who would be better at the role or has more potential upside in there than Sparrow yet Goodwin persists with this no clearance, no goals, 12 touches a game bloke.

14 once K Brown builds his tank up. (15 if you also want to throw Tholstrupp in the mix which some would).

 

[Mich0]

Might not have been totally wasted IF it helped them realize Laurie is still miles off.

At least he can find the pill and hasn’t had 3 years of gifted games yet like Sparrow.

Laurie has only played 5 games, some of which he was sub. Would rather give him a good run at it opposed to gifting games to blokes like Sparrow who has had his chance.

I think we need to face it that Sparrow has hit his ceiling, has had several years of uninterrupted matches to improve and we just arnt seeing it. If we can get a 2nd rounder we should take it and run.

 

[Headless]

At least he can find the pill and hasn’t had 3 years of gifted games yet like Sparrow.

Laurie has 36 disposals or something total?

 

[Mich0]

Laurie has 36 disposals or something total?

Great cherry picking sample size pulling data from a total of 0 full games in the guts at afl level…..

I’m not a big Laurie fan but he would have more upside than Sparrow does right now.

 

[Headless]

Great cherry picking sample size pulling data from a total of 0 full games in the guts at afl level…..

I’m not a big Laurie fan but he would have more upside than Sparrow does right now.

Then what are you basing the comparison on? VFL level, which Sparrow hasn't been playing by virtue of being in the best 22?

 

[Mich0]

Then what are you basing the comparison on? VFL level, which Sparrow hasn't been playing by virtue of being in the best 22?

Age? Years in the system? Matches played? Yesterdays match?

Would always back in the bloke who has less of the above to have more upside.

You are struggling if you want to cherry-pick 1 player who has played 5 afl matches from the 15 I listed for Sparrow to be ahead of.

 

[Topkent]

Laurie makes that bloke we sent to Sydney look good Jimbo Jones or whatever

 

[Mich0]

Laurie makes that bloke we sent to Sydney look good Jimbo Jones or whatever

Based on?

 

[Headless]

Age? Years in the system? Matches played? Yesterdays match?

Would always back in the bloke who has less of the above to have more upside.

You are struggling if you want to cherry-pick 1 player who has played 5 afl matches from the 15 I listed for Sparrow to be ahead of.

I actually like them both. Don't think I'm really cherry-picking; you made the comparison of ball-winning, and I'm just curious what that's based on given Laurie hasn't had much of it at AFL level.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The side step around no one after getting spoked by his own shadow from Laurie yesterday was very impressive.

 

[Headless]

Based on?

Age? Years in the system? Matches played? Yesterdays match?

 

[booshboy]

Laurie makes that bloke we sent to Sydney look good Jimbo Jones or whatever

Always thought it was ****ing stupid we drafted him and Bowey one after another. Two short people.

 

[Topkent]

Based on?

I'd really love to pull out topkents lab for this one but in my well thought out opinion-

Laurie is shit as

 

[Mich0]

I actually like them both. Don't think I'm really cherry-picking; you made the comparison of ball-winning, and I'm just curious what that's based on given Laurie hasn't had much of it at AFL level.

Would rather give him a run in the guys at afl level than sit through another 74 of Sparrow in there.

If you rather Goodwin running the same personal doing the same thing year on year then that’s on you