Training 2024 Preseason training reports and discussion

[Mighty Lions]

It was clear that his heart was never in it.
You don’t need to be too closely connected to the club to see that.

Well I can tell you from the people I know in the club that your comments are way off track. Think of him what you like but he was well liked & respected at the club regardless of what you see.

 

[Elixuh]

He made no connection with the club or the fans so it’s hard to think anything other than, good riddance!

This is a weird comment and hill to die on Dalions. He struck me as no different than when he played at the Hawks.

 

[Dalions]

Well I can tell you from the people I know in the club that your comments are way off track. Think of him what you like but he was well liked & respected at the club regardless of what you see.

Being well liked and respected doesn’t automatically mean he was fully invested in his trip North.
He may have come here with full intentions to make things work and give it his all but his heart never allowed that to happen.

 

[Dalions]

This is a weird comment and hill to die on Dalions. He struck me as no different than when he played at the Hawks.

And given your clear defence of his time here, this is exactly what I would expect to hear from you.
Pretty sure I am standing pretty strong on top of that hill considering he gave up after a year.
His heart was never in it, full stop!

 

[Mighty Lions]

And given your clear defence of his time here, this is exactly what I would expect to hear from you.
Pretty sure I am standing pretty strong on top of that hill considering he gave up after a year.
His heart was never in it, full stop!

Yeah Elixuh ...stop being such a Nunez about Gunston will ya!!!

 

[Elixuh]

And given your clear defence of his time here, this is exactly what I would expect to hear from you.
Pretty sure I am standing pretty strong on top of that hill considering he gave up after a year.
His heart was never in it, full stop!

Are you saying there is a secret cabal of gunners lovers undermining your opinions?

 

[SizeMatters]

He made no connection with the club or the fans so it’s hard to think anything other than, good riddance!

agree. He gave it a shot to walk his way into a fourth premiership and i don't disrespect him for that. Most on their last legs would give it a go especially with the connection with Fages. Where I draw the line is the manner in which he chose to leave the Lions. His entitlement got him off his arse and to us for another chance at a cup but it also blindsided the club when he snaked his way back to Hawks with his tail between his legs after failing to fire a shot.

 

[BuntonRules]

As supporter, all I really care about is his value to the list. Anything we got for him was a bonus.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Man, so many judgy people. No walking a mile in someone's shoes for some.

From my observations, our mids just didn't kick to Jack enough, favouring the traditional kick-it-long to the talls approach. Age and injury played a part, sure, but I think our game plan just didn't suit him. The lateness of the decision to request the trade screams to me he was genuinely torn about staying, but decided on balance to try to look after his mental wellbeing first.

I remember taking a job with a consulting firm with the promise of rich and varied work where I'd be nice and busy. Two months and I wasn't getting any work as any jobs that came in were going to more established staff and there didn't seem to be any sign of change. I called my old boss and was able to get my old job back and am still there today. Best decision I ever made.

 

[Section 5]

Regarding Gunston, you don't want to hang on to a player that wishes to be elsewhere.
It does not really matter why he wanted to leave what is basically a job these days.
.
We got Gunston for nothing being pick 48 + our 4th round this year, which would have been in the 60's.
By getting Gunston we did not lose our McStay Compensation.
We were lucky with the AFL on that one with Amon moving to the Hawks as a free agent the same year.
Gunston was regularly knocked rightly or wrongly on Lions BF, as not being worthy to be selected. Especially his last 6 games.
So, most on Lions BF should be pleased he decided to depart the club even though it was a late decision.

The positives of eventually trading Gunston for season 2024.
The Lions now don't have to pay whatever his salary was. At a wild guess as he had to move interstate $300k+
That money can now be put to good use elsewhere. Contributes towards Doedee salary in 2024 for example.
So, i think the Gunston trade to the Hawks ended up good for our salary cap, at least for 2024.

Hopefully our net salary cap is under less pressure because of Gunstons move back to the Hawks.
Lions lose salary of Gunston, Adams, Rich, Mathieson, Fullarton, Cockatoo, B Coleman, McDowell-White.
Lions gain salary of Doedee, Ryan, Lloyd, Morris, Torrent, Zane Z, Reville

We also gained a 3 game 26-year-old 200cm forward Brandon Ryan, in basically what was a player swap, Ryan for Gunston.
Other trade picks involved cancel each other out. Lions sent future 2nd + 47 & 61. Lions receive 39, 54 and Hawks future 4th.

 

[Viceregal]

I never warmed to Jack and didn't think his selections were warranted but could see why he was brought in.

Whether his style didn't suit our game plan or players didn't trust him enough to kick to him or he was doing it right but had lost that yard of pace that meant that he not longer got the needed separations I don't know ... I do know that he would pull out something smart most games that impressed me and that he would usually not do something (eg chasing) that I would have preferred him to do that cost us ... it was because his negatives on field out weighed his positives on field (in my mind) that I didn't want him out there.

Did his presence help our forward line - I don't know. Did he pass on hard earned wisdom that will benefit our team going forward - I don't know. Did he really put his hand up to be dropped mid season as reported or was that PR - I don't know. Did he come north with good intentions and realise it was a bad fit and go back or come up on a purely mercenary (which is technically not evil btw) basis - I don't know.

I generally don't blame players for leaving us as otherwise I would have to hate on those who choose to come to us as well although with folks like Lynch (of Suns/Tigers ilk) it is harder

I am utterly ambivilent about the guy and wish him all the best but a decade from now if I was listing remembered Lion's players he won't be in the list and I will see a team sheet and go 'oh yeah that's right he did play for us that year didn't he'.

And I am sure that some of our OTT Gunners supporting posters will find something new to enjoy trolling with so that is the important thing

 

[scoman]

Recruiting Gunston was all part of an elaborate plan to get Ryan

 

[mpal6]

Are you saying there is a secret cabal of gunners lovers undermining your opinions?

Not Cabal. It's a clique !

 

[mpal6]

Recruiting Gunston was all part of an elaborate plan to get Ryan

Nah it was an elaborate plan to show Cooper Hodge what he would look wearing a Hawks guernsey compared to a Lions guernsey. Cooper would've been too young to remember what Luke would've looked like in Hawks jumper so he needed that refresher - Gunners was our model for it. I think we sold it well to the boy now, we're all set for 2026 draft.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Albert Proud says hi.

I'm not sure Albert used us, last I heard he was still in jail. If anything we saved him from going there for a few years earlier.

 

[Mighty Lions]

I never warmed to Jack and didn't think his selections were warranted but could see why he was brought in.

Whether his style didn't suit our game plan or players didn't trust him enough to kick to him or he was doing it right but had lost that yard of pace that meant that he not longer got the needed separations I don't know ... I do know that he would pull out something smart most games that impressed me and that he would usually not do something (eg chasing) that I would have preferred him to do that cost us ... it was because his negatives on field out weighed his positives on field (in my mind) that I didn't want him out there.

Did his presence help our forward line - I don't know. Did he pass on hard earned wisdom that will benefit our team going forward - I don't know. Did he really put his hand up to be dropped mid season as reported or was that PR - I don't know. Did he come north with good intentions and realise it was a bad fit and go back or come up on a purely mercenary (which is technically not evil btw) basis - I don't know.

I generally don't blame players for leaving us as otherwise I would have to hate on those who choose to come to us as well although with folks like Lynch (of Suns/Tigers ilk) it is harder

I am utterly ambivilent about the guy and wish him all the best but a decade from now if I was listing remembered Lion's players he won't be in the list and I will see a team sheet and go 'oh yeah that's right he did play for us that year didn't he'.

And I am sure that some of our OTT Gunners supporting posters will find something new to enjoy trolling with so that is the important thing

I am the first to admitt that the recruitment of Gunston was a fail but so has plenty of other decisions made in the past. Does that mean it's OK to pile on him like he was the villan in all this like a few have recently done???? Not in my mind. It was worth the try but it didnt work. I dont think there is anyone on BF who genuinely thinks it worked. 99% of the "Gunners supporters" here on BF was said tongue in cheek rather than think he should have been played in the finals series. The OTT Gunners supporters was a bit of fun, not to be taken seriously in my opinion.

FWIW, I have recently spoken to one of our regular Top 5 players (a player who has been in our leadership group for several years now) about Gunston and what he thought of him....in no way did he refer to Gunston negatively. He was respected and in no way did anyone at the club think he was not committed to playing his best footy or being part of the playing group. His value for what he has achieved in his career was huge and the advice/support he gave was also appreciated.

Not much more to be said other than wish him all the best in his endevours into the future in everything he does. (except if/when he plays against our club. )

 

[Dalions]

I am the first to admitt that the recruitment of Gunston was a fail but so has plenty of other decisions made in the past. Does that mean it's OK to pile on him like he was the villan in all this like a few have recently done???? Not in my mind. It was worth the try but it didnt work. I dont think there is anyone on BF who genuinely thinks it worked. 99% of the "Gunners supporters" here on BF was said tongue in cheek rather than think he should have been played in the finals series. The OTT Gunners supporters was a bit of fun, not to be taken seriously in my opinion.

FWIW, I have recently spoken to one of our regular Top 5 players (a player who has been in our leadership group for several years now) about Gunston and what he thought of him....in no way did he refer to Gunston negatively. He was respected and in no way did anyone at the club think he was not committed to playing his best footy or being part of the playing group. His value for what he has achieved in his career was huge and the advice/support he gave was also appreciated.

Not much more to be said other than wish him all the best in his endevours into the future in everything he does. (except if/when he plays against our club. )

I think if you read back through the threads for the last 12 months you will find that the pile on, has not been a recent thing.

I agree, I was all aboard the Gunners train when we signed him and thought he would be a big part of our premiership push.
Reality didn’t meet my and others expectations, including yours.

It’s interesting that you pick up on the tongue in cheek in positive posts but never pick up on the tongue in cheek of negative ones.

I personally do not wish him any ill will, but at the same time I am happy that he moved on.

 

[Nunez]

I think if you read back through the threads for the last 12 months you will find that the pile on, has not been a recent thing.

I agree, I was all aboard the Gunners train when we signed him and thought he would be a big part of our premiership push.
Reality didn’t meet my and others expectations, including yours.

It’s interesting that you pick up on the tongue in cheek in positive posts but never pick up on the tongue in cheek of negative ones.

I personally do not wish him any ill will, but at the same time I am happy that he moved on.

Plenty here are not being tongue and cheek with their comments. Some here just forget we're talking about human beings and not pawns in a game.

Gunston was not a successful recruit but he came to us with the best of intentions and it didn't work out. Shit happens. We move on. It's not a blight on Jack as a human or on the recruitment team either for that matter.

 

[Dalions]

Plenty here are not being tongue and cheek with their comments. Some here just forget we're talking about human beings and not pawns in a game.

Gunston was not a successful recruit but he came to us with the best of intentions and it didn't work out. s**t happens. We move on. It's not a blight on Jack as a human or on the recruitment team either for that matter.

Of course, but generally you can tell the difference.
Especially when looking at a posting history.

 

[Section 5]

I think getting Gunston was more to do with knowing we were going to lose McStay.
We were in a premiership window, and it was defiantly worth the gamble as it only costs us salary.
We had no real 3rd tall option playing VFL.
A three tall forward setup has been Fagans preference for years including right up until round 23 this year.
In my opinion Gunston was fine but eventually he just did not produce what was needed as that 3rd tall later in the year.

We looked a better and more mobile team with just 2 tall forwards from round 23 with no 3rd tall that being Gunston.
Wins against Pies, Saints (only 12 points), Power, & Blues then the GF loss to the Pies.
That was a 5-game sequence with opposition having to adjust to our new set up. Likely helped us in the end.

Opposition teams in 2024 will adjust to our relatively new set up should that continue.
But our 3 tall set up over the years has won us a lot of games and this should not be ignored.
Since 2019 we have played 118 games and won 83.
That's a 70.3%-win record mostly with a 3 tall forward set up. In 2019 & 2020 it was a ruck until Jo arrived in 2021.

Everything points to just Jo as fwd/ruck relief and Hippy as the two forward talls and Rayner filling that 3rd tall spot.
However, i think we might struggle to win games if or when Jo and Hippy miss games with this set up.
We will need to rely on Smith or Ryan if injury strikes to hold down one of those positions.

I am hoping that the AFL gets rid of the sub this year.
If that happens, Fagan may decide to use Ryan, Smith and possibly Morris & Lloyd as I/C relief when Oscar resting and Jo into the ruck.
This will expose them to AFL games and if we suffer injuries/suspension to Jo or Hippy they will be more prepared.

 

[p4p1]

So, he used us. I doubt there is an ex player I will miss less.

That is the nature of sport. Don't forget that clubs use players and when they are deemed no longer useful, except in a relatively tiny amount of cases, they are shown the door. As long as he gave his all while he was here and put the team first, which I believe he did his best to, then I don't see the problem.
I suspect that for us Brandon Ryan may be more useful in the longer term anyway.

 

[p4p1]

I think getting Gunston was more to do with knowing we were going to lose McStay.
We were in a premiership window, and it was defiantly worth the gamble as it only costs us salary.
We had no real 3rd tall option playing VFL.
A three tall forward setup has been Fagans preference for years including right up until round 23 this year.
In my opinion Gunston was fine but eventually he just did not produce what was needed as that 3rd tall later in the year.

We looked a better and more mobile team with just 2 tall forwards from round 23 with no 3rd tall that being Gunston.
Wins against Pies, Saints (only 12 points), Power, & Blues then the GF loss to the Pies.
That was a 5-game sequence with opposition having to adjust to our new set up. Likely helped us in the end.

Opposition teams in 2024 will adjust to our relatively new set up should that continue.
But our 3 tall set up over the years has won us a lot of games and this should not be ignored.
Since 2019 we have played 118 games and won 83.
That's a 70.3%-win record mostly with a 3 tall forward set up. In 2019 & 2020 it was a ruck until Jo arrived in 2021.

Everything points to just Jo as fwd/ruck relief and Hippy as the two forward talls and Rayner filling that 3rd tall spot.
However, i think we might struggle to win games if or when Jo and Hippy miss games with this set up.
We will need to rely on Smith or Ryan if injury strikes to hold down one of those positions.

I am hoping that the AFL gets rid of the sub this year.
If that happens, Fagan may decide to use Ryan, Smith and possibly Morris & Lloyd as I/C relief when Oscar resting and Jo into the ruck.
This will expose them to AFL games and if we suffer injuries/suspension to Jo or Hippy they will be more prepared.

That is never going to happen. In the modern game losing rotations kills your chances at a win and increases the chances of a blowout. Statistically if you lose 2 players, lets say one to an injury and one to concussion protocols you are guaranteed to lose the game.
If anything reverting back to the 2 talls showed why we shouldn't be using 3 talls. McStay had and excellent tank and is a decent athlete so I don't think using him as a 3rd tall highlighted the tradeoff for using 3 talls. But we looked a better team with 2 talls, we were quicker and we seemed to create space for the two talls to run into more effectively. 2 vs 3 talls was not the only change we made that made a big impact in our team defence and our forward line, our smalls stayed down more often in marking contests, we didn't bomb it in and hope for the best as often etc. How much of our improvements around the ground were because we were able to run as a team better vs tactical changes, I don't know but it is worth considering.

 

[KissKiss]

I was pretty firm on not wanting Gunston in our best 22 but would have been very happy if he had stayed on as a coach for the coming years. Think he could have had lots to teach our players. As is now he's gone and no real ill will from me about it.

 

[Section 5]

That is never going to happen. In the modern game losing rotations kills your chances at a win and increases the chances of a blowout. Statistically if you lose 2 players, lets say one to an injury and one to concussion protocols you are guaranteed to lose the game.
If anything reverting back to the 2 talls showed why we shouldn't be using 3 talls. McStay had and excellent tank and is a decent athlete so I don't think using him as a 3rd tall highlighted the tradeoff for using 3 talls. But we looked a better team with 2 talls, we were quicker and we seemed to create space for the two talls to run into more effectively. 2 vs 3 talls was not the only change we made that made a big impact in our team defence and our forward line, our smalls stayed down more often in marking contests, we didn't bomb it in and hope for the best as often etc. How much of our improvements around the ground were because we were able to run as a team better vs tactical changes, I don't know but it is worth considering.

Bolded.
Are you talking about the AFL won't bring it in ?

 

[Section 5]

That is never going to happen. In the modern game losing rotations kills your chances at a win and increases the chances of a blowout. Statistically if you lose 2 players, lets say one to an injury and one to concussion protocols you are guaranteed to lose the game.
If anything reverting back to the 2 talls showed why we shouldn't be using 3 talls. McStay had and excellent tank and is a decent athlete so I don't think using him as a 3rd tall highlighted the tradeoff for using 3 talls. But we looked a better team with 2 talls, we were quicker and we seemed to create space for the two talls to run into more effectively. 2 vs 3 talls was not the only change we made that made a big impact in our team defence and our forward line, our smalls stayed down more often in marking contests, we didn't bomb it in and hope for the best as often etc. How much of our improvements around the ground were because we were able to run as a team better vs tactical changes, I don't know but it is worth considering.

Bolded
I have no idea if this is correct. It could very well be but i have no idea where to find that information.
Do you have a link to show that this is what happened say in 2022/23.