2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

[OnceWeWereKings]

Jeremy Cameron hasn't had what I'd call a particularly great season, yet still:

-Has more combined goals/assists
-Has an extra score involvement per game
-Averages 3.4 more disposals per game
-Has more total coaches votes
-Has had more games featuring in the coaches votes

Than McKay.

So if McKay is building a case, Cameron still has a stronger one despite being well below his best.

But that’s the thing about stats isn’t it, they’re very selective when you want them to be

One could just look at them and say, McKay has considerably;

Kicked more goals 39 - 33
Taken more marks 122 - 94
Had more hit outs 28 - 1
Laid more tackles 43 -20
Had more contested possesions 105 - 66
More 1% 25 - 23

Etc. etc.

From a Carlton perspective I’d have Harry in front of Charlie as our number one forward this year. Most have Charlie as a close to a lock for AA.

From my perspective. McKay has been the best most consistent big forward in the comp this year. Daniher a closing 2nd.

All three considerably in front of Cameron this year.

I’ve been a hard marker of Harry in previous years. For someone as talented as he is had never really ticked all the boxes that I judge a big KPF on.

This year has been his most complete so far, and at 26 is starting to reach the peak age bracket for big forwards.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Hogan and Daniher easily ahead. Curnow already in. If they pick a tall forward on bench maybe

Why would Daniher be easily ahead? Not disregarding your opinion, just interested as to why.

 

[Walter H White]

Neale is going to win another Brownlow, still the best midfielder in the league. I don’t barrack for lions but the lack of respect here is crazy.

They may well both get in, but if I had to pick between Neale and Serong I would choose Neale. Has more hurt factor.

 

[Mr Meow]

But that’s the thing about stats isn’t it, they’re very selective when you want them to be

One could just look at them and say, McKay has considerably;

Kicked more goals 39 - 33
Taken more marks 122 - 94
Had more hit outs 28 - 1
Laid more tackles 43 -20
Had more contested possesions 105 - 66
More 1% 25 - 23

Etc. etc.

From a Carlton perspective I’d have Harry in front of Charlie as our number one forward this year. Most have Charlie as a close to a lock for AA.

From my perspective. McKay has been the best most consistent big forward in the comp this year. Daniher a closing 2nd.

All three considerably in front of Cameron this year.

I’ve been a hard marker of Harry in previous years. For someone as talented as he is had never really ticked all the boxes that I judge a big KPF on.

This year has been his most complete so far, and at 26 is starting to reach the peak age bracket for big forwards.

Combined goals/goal assists, score involvements, disposals and coaches votes are a collection of stats I'm comfortable with preferring over the ones you have selected when assessing a centre half forwards performance (more hit outs was amusing though, kudos). A centre half forward with just 5 goal assists when he has Curnow to kick to instead of the corpse of Hawkins or young Neale? That's a little low.

McKay has had a good year and received more attention. Cameron has been a little below his best but still been slightly better than McKay - his ceiling, like Greene, is higher and that can be used against him if he dips at all. I've no problem if the AA selectors reward McKay on improving his output from last year though. The facts just don't suggest he is ahead.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Why would Daniher be easily ahead? Not disregarding your opinion, just interested as to why.

Much better over the full course of the season.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Much better over the full course of the season.

By what metrics?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

By what metrics?

Double the assists for starters. Honestly if the Cats come top 3, Cameron is getting a spot anyway.

Hogan if the Giants get in the top 6 is there, Curnow gets the Coleman he’s there. There is only so many more tall positions. Curnow at FF/Cameron CHF/ Hogan as the 3rd tall seems the obvious 3. Daniher the 4th one that’s if they even pick 4 true talls. If they go two rucks they may only pick 3.

 

[Mr Meow]

Double the assists for starters. Honestly if the Cats come top 3, Cameron is getting a spot anyway.

Hogan if the Giants get in the top 6 is there, Curnow gets the Coleman he’s there. There is only so many more tall positions. Curnow at FF/Cameron CHF/ Hogan as the 3rd tall seems the obvious 3. Daniher the 4th one that’s if they even pick 4 true talls. If they go two rucks they may only pick 3.

Cameron is effectively a large forward flanker too, so could easily picked there, with the two main keys (Curnow and Hogan) taking FF/CHF.

 

[Lingsface]

Double the assists for starters. Honestly if the Cats come top 3, Cameron is getting a spot anyway.

Hogan if the Giants get in the top 6 is there, Curnow gets the Coleman he’s there. There is only so many more tall positions. Curnow at FF/Cameron CHF/ Hogan as the 3rd tall seems the obvious 3. Daniher the 4th one that’s if they even pick 4 true talls. If they go two rucks they may only pick 3.

In my opinion Daniher has been the best KPF this year as an all round player, Gaining meters, inside 50s, score involvements, multiple positions he has had a huge year.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Cameron is effectively a large forward flanker too, so could easily picked there, with the two main keys (Curnow and Hogan) taking FF/CHF.

Exactly the way I would be going but no issue if Hogan is the flank either way it’s much as. Those three have been the best 3 over the course. Daniher the 4th and that’s dependant on them picking two rucks or not just doubt these selectors pick a ruck AND a key tall on the bench.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Combined goals/goal assists, score involvements, disposals and coaches votes are a collection of stats I'm comfortable with preferring over the ones you have selected when assessing a centre half forwards performance (more hit outs was amusing though, kudos). A centre half forward with just 5 goal assists when he has Curnow to kick to instead of the corpse of Hawkins or young Neale? That's a little low.

McKay has had a good year and received more attention. Cameron has been a little below his best but still been slightly better than McKay - his ceiling, like Greene, is higher and that can be used against him if he dips at all. I've no problem if the AA selectors reward McKay on improving his output from last year though. The facts just don't suggest he is ahead.

Once again, think your being selective with your metrics.
Goals / score assists, using eth-dogs stats has Cameron 49 to McKay 47.
Yet McKay kicking 39 goals to Cameron’s 33. When judging a KPF I’d weight goals kicked more heavily than assists. I believe most would.
If taking possesions as a metric in assessing a KPFs then you’d need to really assess where those possesions we’re had.
I’d want my KPF having them in the front half or as a lead up forward of centre.
A number of Cameron’s possesions this year have been floating in the defensive end and are clearly highlighted by his uncontested Vs contested possesion stats.
If the thread title was accumulative and not specific to 2024 then your points re: Cameron and Greene would have have some validity.
Yet it’s specific to 2024 and from that perspective, and in my opinion, Mckay has had a better year as a KPF than Cameron.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I don’t know - Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I rate some metrics higher than others when assessing KPFs
Things like goals kicked, contested marks, marks, contested possesions, impacting marking contests, tackles etc.

That other SuperCoach stuff not so much.

 

[eth-dog]

I don’t know - Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I rate some metrics higher than others when assessing KPFs
Things like goals kicked, contested marks, marks, contested possesions, impacting marking contests, tackles etc.

That other SuperCoach stuff not so much.

Generally speaking, the order of importance from the AA selectors have been:

1. Combined goals and assists
2. Score Involvements
3. Marks I50
4. Contested marks

And the rest aren't as important really.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Generally speaking, the order of importance from the AA selectors have been:

1. Combined goals and assists
2. Score Involvements
3. Marks I50
4. Contested marks

And the rest aren't as important really.

Cheers for that - Not really stats guru myself but I’d assume McKay would rate consistently high in all those metrics against the peers being discussed?
As I said in my original post, and looking at some of the metrics being used, in particular goals / assists combined, Charlie has more goals than all of Cameron, Hogan, Daniher McKay, more assists than Cameron, Hogan, Daniher & McKay - Yet I’d still rate Mckays season as a KPF better than that of Charlie’s to this point. I’d believe most Carlton supporters would.

 

[KissKiss]

Neale is going to win another Brownlow, still the best midfielder in the league. I don’t barrack for lions but the lack of respect here is crazy.

I dont think he's the best mid but he's definitely top 5 and he's so clearly the best mid in a good side that he just racks brownlow votes so easily. Hes going to go very close to his third

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I dont think he's the best mid but he's definitely top 5 and he's so clearly the best mid in a good side that he just racks brownlow votes so easily. Hes going to go very close to his third

What he is best at is below his knees. His one touch consistency is truely elite. Gun.

 

[eth-dog]

Cheers for that - Not really stats guru myself but I’d assume McKay would rate consistently high in all those metrics against the peers being discussed?
As I said in my original post, and looking at some of the metrics being used, in particular goals / assists combined, Charlie has more goals than all of Cameron, Hogan, Daniher McKay, more assists than Cameron, Hogan, Daniher & McKay - Yet I’d still rate Mckays season as a KPF better than that of Charlie’s to this point. I’d believe most Carlton supporters would.

Amongst all forwards he's equal 5th for combined g+a, equal 9th for total SI, 2nd for MI50 and CM.

 

[Mr Meow]

I don’t know - Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I rate some metrics higher than others when assessing KPFs
Things like goals kicked, contested marks, marks, contested possesions, impacting marking contests, tackles etc.

That other SuperCoach stuff not so much.

You might not be old fashioned, but simply off the mark as far as what the AA selectors prefer for selecting key forwards.

Combined goals/goal assists and score involvements are fairly high up there, as eth-dog informed us.

Coaches votes are another good guide (the key forward with the most coaches votes has been selected each of the past 5 seasons, I couldn't be bothered looking further - and Cameron is well in front so far this season).

But yeah you're right, maybe they will decide some extra marks, contested possessions and tackles are what they want in the second/third key forwards selected. I wouldn't be surprised at all if McKay is picked. For scoreboard impact and general involvement (disposals), Cameron is ahead as of now, that's all.

 

[hawkman]

Not the only relevant stat to make AA but contested defensive losses % amongst KPD's in question this year

Charlie Comben - 46.4%
Ben Mckay - 35.6%
Tom Barrass - 33.3%
Jack Buckley - 31.4%
Alex Pearce - 25.5%
Jeremy McGovern - 23.3%
Tom McCartin - 18.5%
Sam Taylor - 14.8%
Harris Andrews - 13.4%
Sam Collins - 13.3%
Callum Wilkie - 11.4%
Steven May - 10.7%
Jacob Weitering - 4.5%

Apparently Weitering didn't lose a contest yesterday according to CD despite conceding a free kick in a one on one contesr

 

[Lingsface]

Apparently Weitering didn't lose a contest yesterday according to CD despite conceding a free kick in a one on one contesr

Because they moved him off the best kpf.

 

[SnusCG]

Sam Collins has been an absolute defensive rock this year and leads the league in intercepts. At worst should be in the 40 man squad.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Daicos and Cripps start on the ground ahead of Neale, Merrett and Butters.

Merret and Butters yes. Neale no. No other mid can touch him at the moment.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Apparently Weitering didn't lose a contest yesterday according to CD despite conceding a free kick in a one on one contesr

Wasn't a one on one contest, Weitering got there late after Poulter had already dropped the mark.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Because they moved him off the best kpf.

Bevo changed plans to counter Weiterings dominance in the first half so Voss moved Weitering to try and free him up. Happens all the time mate, hence why teams play a zone defense these days instead of a 1 on 1 battle the whole game.

 

[KissKiss]

Bevo changed plans to counter Weiterings dominance in the first half so Voss moved Weitering to try and free him up. Happens all the time mate, hence why teams play a zone defense these days instead of a 1 on 1 battle the whole game.

I dont think your best defender should have to go on the best forward anyway. For example Andrew will almost always go to the tallest forward while the smaller guys take the others. Better matchups for the team is not really a negative