2024 Rolling ALL-Australian Team

[Lingsface]

Joe Daniher... Enough said

Daniher has had a great year.

 

[Orange crush]

Daniher has had a great year.

Yet cost his team 3-4 wins off his own boot …. 1st to 5th

 

[james Dean]

Daniher has had a great year.

No way has he been better than Cameron, Curnow, McKay, or King

Very lucky to even make the squad

 

[eth-dog]

No way has he been better than Cameron, Curnow, McKay, or King

Very lucky to even make the squad

Except he has been better than both McKay and King.

 

[paulige]

I realise you’re not arguing Heeney’s worth, but he’s not (or shouldn’t be) contending with the likes of Moore, Stengle and Rayner. This year he’s been a genuine centre bounce midfielder and most of his goals have come from the midfield. It just so happens that he can also occasionally “rest” deep in the forward line and add more goals from there.

Oh I agree - I just have a feeling they’ll plonk him on a forward flank because he was a strong goal-kicker, as it then allows them to pick another mid, which they love to do. Maybe not, though!

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

No way has he been better than Cameron, Curnow, McKay, or King

Very lucky to even make the squad

I don't think he's lucky to make the squad. But I think it's a fair point regarding Cameron and Curnow. Really, I had him in because he can ruck. It was line ball between Daniher and Curnow for me.

 

[paulige]

No way has he been better than Cameron, Curnow, McKay, or King

Very lucky to even make the squad

King edges him out for goals.

Daniher has way more disposals, marks, inside 50’s, clearances, goal assists, metres gained.

It’s odd to suggest there is “no way” he has been better than King. King is very good at mark-kick-goal. Does not offer much beyond that.

Has also had a statistically comparable year to each McKay and Curnow - open for debate.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

What kind of stats do you think will reflect a wingman's effectiveness? I'm not one for judging on individual stats, but I'd expect the best wingmen to be high up in some of the following categories: metres gained, score involvements, inside 50s. And maybe to have made a decent contribution on the scoreboard.

D'Ambrosio is nowhere near the top of any of those categories. Compare that with Gulden, who seems likely to nab "the other" wing spot. He's first or second (on totals) for each of those three stats, as well as contributing 15 goals of his own (which feels a bit lower than it should be - his conversion hasn't been as good this year).

In what aspects of the game do you think D'Ambrosio's prowess shows up over all the other guys who are good at running up and down the wing (and most teams have at least one nowadays who pretty much does that)?

I don't really know how to quantify the wing role in the modern game as I think it heavily depends on the system you're playing. But I would agree that those stats you've mentioned are what you would typically attribute to good wingman. And that when we are doing AA you have to try to remove the player from the individual system to stack them up against others.

D'Ambrosio has been the highest or second highest ranked wingman all year according to champion data (happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong). And whilst like you I don't want to reduce it all to stats that seems to point to him being above most of the other wings. I appreciate champion data aren't very transparent with their ranking system so unfortunately I can't pick it apart and have a better objective conversation.

Mass is a beautiful kick of the ball and I'd imagine he is ranked highly because he often hits harder kicks more consistently. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the majority of his marks were in our defensive half either he's been great at coming from the fat side to help our defence all year. He's easily our best kick entering 50. He doesn't carry the ball much but usually hits beautiful shorter kicks which might be why his meters gained aren't super high.

I openly admit though that Mass suits our game style and that possibly makes him look better to my eye. I agree when you just lay his stats out he doesn't stand out. You won't get any argument from me the Gulden hasn't had a better year. He's a lock in that AA team even.

 

[liz]

I don't really know how to quantify the wing role in the modern game as I think it heavily depends on the system you're playing. But I would agree that those stats you've mentioned are what you would typically attribute to good wingman. And that when we are doing AA you have to try to remove the player from the individual system to stack them up against others.

D'Ambrosio has been the highest or second highest ranked wingman all year according to champion data (happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong). And whilst like you I don't want to reduce it all to stats that seems to point to him being above most of the other wings. I appreciate champion data aren't very transparent with their ranking system so unfortunately I can't pick it apart and have a better objective conversation.

Mass is a beautiful kick of the ball and I'd imagine he is ranked highly because he often hits harder kicks more consistently. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the majority of his marks were in our defensive half either he's been great at coming from the fat side to help our defence all year. He's easily our best kick entering 50. He doesn't carry the ball much but usually hits beautiful shorter kicks which might be why his meters gained aren't super high.

I openly admit though that Mass suits our game style and that possibly makes him look better to my eye. I agree when you just lay his stats out he doesn't stand out. You won't get any argument from me the Gulden hasn't had a better year. He's a lock in that AA team even.

I have heard/read that CD rates his year as a wingman highly. It's just hard to understand why given that, as you observe, their system is opaque. Without knowing the nitty-gritty of their model, I had thought it valued scoreboard impact above almost everything else, which is why I was a little surprised to see that D'Ambrosio doesn't rate that highly on the most obvious scoreboard impact statistics.

I suspect it's close to certain that Gulden is picked on a wing, but he probably stopped playing a pure wing role part way through the year. I think at the start he was playing closer to a true wingman role than he did for most of last year, but nowadays he just runs all over the ground. And while he's not a first pick centre-bounce attendee, he attends more than a typical wingman would. Still, it will be convenient for them to stick him on a wing to fit him in the side - his season deserves it regardless of how you categorise him. And of all those who will be picked in the team, he's the one probably most capable of playing a pure wing role. (Or, at least, I'm sure the likes of Daicos and Bontempelli could play the role; they just don't.)

I can see Adam Treloar being picked on the other wing when the team is announced. No, he's not a classic wingman either, but he does a fair amount of visible stuff on the outside so he fits the bill as far as the AA selectors are concerned. He's not getting a centre or onball spot when he's up against Bontempelli, Neale, Daicos, Heeney, Cripps and the like.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

I have heard/read that CD rates his year as a wingman highly. It's just hard to understand why given that, as you observe, their system is opaque. Without knowing the nitty-gritty of their model, I had thought it valued scoreboard impact above almost everything else, which is why I was a little surprised to see that D'Ambrosio doesn't rate that highly on the most obvious scoreboard impact statistics.

I suspect it's close to certain that Gulden is picked on a wing, but he probably stopped playing a pure wing role part way through the year. I think at the start he was playing closer to a true wingman role than he did for most of last year, but nowadays he just runs all over the ground. And while he's not a first pick centre-bounce attendee, he attends more than a typical wingman would. Still, it will be convenient for them to stick him on a wing to fit him in the side - his season deserves it regardless of how you categorise him. And of all those who will be picked in the team, he's the one probably most capable of playing a pure wing role. (Or, at least, I'm sure the likes of Daicos and Bontempelli could play the role; they just don't.)

I can see Adam Treloar being picked on the other wing when the team is announced. No, he's not a classic wingman either, but he does a fair amount of visible stuff on the outside so he fits the bill as far as the AA selectors are concerned. He's not getting a centre or onball spot when he's up against Bontempelli, Neale, Daicos, Heeney, Cripps and the like.

Completely agree regarding his CD ranking. I wish I knew why they ranked him so high because then I would have a better argument rather than just appealing to them. Maybe Hoyne will elaborate on SEN this week as I think it will be a topic of discussion.

He just passes the eye test this year. He has been a significant contributor in most of our games and owns that wing role. Which he has played all year. Just curiously who are the other pure wingman you'd compare him against? Because I agree regarding Gulden. He's not playing a pure wing role anymore and hasn't for about half the year. And as you say, he'd get into the team either way it's just convenient to put him on a wing for the AA sake.

I had Merrett on the other wing, but Treloar is a great shout too as he's had a great season too.

 

[Wargreymon90]

FB: Houston Andrews Ryan
HF: Zorko McGovern Whitfield
C: Gulden Cripps Heeney
HF: Warner Cameron Horne-francis
FF: Moore Hogan Stengle

Fol: Gawn Daicos Bontempelli

Bench: Treloar Butters Serong Neale

 

[Orange crush]

FB: Houston Andrews Ryan
HF: Zorko McGovern Whitfield
C: Gulden Cripps Heeney
HF: Warner Cameron Horne-francis
FF: Moore Hogan Stengle

Fol: Gawn Daicos Bontempelli

Bench: Treloar Butters Serong Neale

Cripps to chop out in the ruck … I like it

 

[Handyandy]

IN: Jason Horne-Francis, Zak Butters

These 2 have carried Port this season all the way to 2nd on the ladder

They both belong in the AA22

F*** the stats
F*** the player ratings
F*** the media & fan hype
F*** the sheeplike selections

Put ‘em in.

POTY
Agree with your comment regarding too much weight being put on early season form.
JHF has killed it the last month
Proof is in the pudding
Earnt a spot on bench or forward pocket
I notice a few Carlton and Hawks supporters agreeing now

 

[bungalow_bill]

Had about 5 decent games

You need to watch more Lions games. More like 8 elite games including his earlier demolition of Melbourne. Was playing at an extremely high level during the Lions 9 game streak.

 

[Orange crush]

You need to watch more Lions games. More like 8 elite games including his earlier demolition of Melbourne. Was playing at an extremely high level during the Lions 9 game streak.

Let’s call it 6 then

 

[bungalow_bill]

I presume Rayner is some sort of elaborate gag. Should not have been near discussions for the team

Where were the discussions held? Rayner has been in Brisbane for the last week or two.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I don't really know how to quantify the wing role in the modern game as I think it heavily depends on the system you're playing. But I would agree that those stats you've mentioned are what you would typically attribute to good wingman. And that when we are doing AA you have to try to remove the player from the individual system to stack them up against others.

D'Ambrosio has been the highest or second highest ranked wingman all year according to champion data (happy to be corrected on that if I'm wrong). And whilst like you I don't want to reduce it all to stats that seems to point to him being above most of the other wings. I appreciate champion data aren't very transparent with their ranking system so unfortunately I can't pick it apart and have a better objective conversation.

Mass is a beautiful kick of the ball and I'd imagine he is ranked highly because he often hits harder kicks more consistently. It wouldn't surprise me to see that the majority of his marks were in our defensive half either he's been great at coming from the fat side to help our defence all year. He's easily our best kick entering 50. He doesn't carry the ball much but usually hits beautiful shorter kicks which might be why his meters gained aren't super high.

I openly admit though that Mass suits our game style and that possibly makes him look better to my eye. I agree when you just lay his stats out he doesn't stand out. You won't get any argument from me the Gulden hasn't had a better year. He's a lock in that AA team even.

He's the 47th ranked midfielder (over 12 games played) in AFL Player Ratings.

You can debate which of those 47 are "wingers" but who cares. I'd rather have a top ~10 rated midfielder named than a "real" winger if that's the choice.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Rayner on the left and people can guess who’s on the right.
View attachment 2092757

Surely Rayner in the squad is purely for clickbait and engagement.

Enjoying all the angst and gnashing of teeth over Cam's well deserved selection. I can only put it down to ignorance, there's really no other explanation.

 

[La Vache]

IN: Jason Horne-Francis, Zak Butters

These 2 have carried Port this season all the way to 2nd on the ladder

They both belong in the AA22

F*** the stats
F*** the player ratings
F*** the media & fan hype
F*** the sheeplike selections

Put ‘em in.

Good to see I’m not on my own. I’ll go one further and say they should be first 18. This is a bit of a numbers over influence litmus test for the selectors. Horne-Francis’ approach has changed Port's entire look to a menacing combative one and you’d hate to play on either of them at the moment.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

He's the 47th ranked midfielder (over 12 games played) in AFL Player Ratings.

You can debate which of those 47 are "wingers" but who cares. I'd rather have a top ~10 rated midfielder named than a "real" winger if that's the choice.

Fair and I think that is what they'll do. Which is why I have Merrett on the other wing in my team. If they were selecting two wings though I think D'Ambrosio would make the team.

It's an interesting point though. I wonder what CD use to determine if someone is wing or midfield. AFL player rankings don't categories between midfield and wing do they?

 

[Mr Meow]

Good to see I’m not on my own. I’ll go one further and say they should be first 18. This is a bit of a numbers over influence litmus test for the selectors. Horne-Francis’ approach has changed Port's entire look to a menacing combative one and you’d hate to play on either of them at the moment.

Houston's been very good but the two Port players I'd pick first would be Butters and JHF. Both on my bench in the last team I posted, I think. Maybe they'll end up pushing someone like Stengle out to ensure both JHF and Warner make it, which would be a crappy way to do it but I can see it happening.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

If you're being entirely literal with picking both a team and players who played that exact defined role you have to find an additonal 2nd ruck though. As in, most teams pick a first ruck and a player who chop rucks, so we need to pick 2 players in the squad of 44 who were the most valuable while being a 2nd ruck throghout the season.

Daniher rucked enough this season for that to count, and Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

was probably first ruck too much of the season to count. Then who was the 2nd best in the league ... Sam Darcy?

 

[La Vache]

Houston's been very good but the two Port players I'd pick first would be Butters and JHF. Both on my bench in the last team I posted, I think. Maybe they'll end up pushing someone like Stengle out to ensure both JHF and Warner make it, which would be a crappy way to do it but I can see it happening.

Totally understandable as long as they’re in the team. I have my doubts though as JHF averages 22 disposals a match.

 

[hawkman]

If you're being entirely literal with picking both a team and players who played that exact defined role you have to find an additonal 2nd ruck though. As in, most teams pick a first ruck and a player who chop rucks, so we need to pick 2 players in the squad of 44 who were the most valuable while being a 2nd ruck throghout the season.

Daniher rucked enough this season for that to count, and Luke Jackson was probably first ruck too much of the season to count. Then who was the 2nd best in the league ... Sam Darcy?

Cripps averages 5 ruck contests a week which is enough to be classed as the 2nd ruck in this team

 

[bungalow_bill]

Rayner has inferior stats to Connor Macdonald, who couldn't even make the under 22 All Australian team.

Perhaps watch some games instead of basing an opinion on stats. Rayner is generally to this point a low possession/high impact player. Although during the 9 game streak he was moving up to 25 or so possessions. Give Rayner 25 possessions and carnage will ensue.