VFL 2024 Sandringham Zebras

[hangdog]

I agree that Allison is more likely to be cut than get another contract especially if Membrey goes around for another year.

The killer for him has been the improvement in Sharman and the extraordinary piece of luck we had in signing Caminiti.

He really needed to string togethor a solid block of games but when he's playing well you can see the attraction.

Great size, moves well, great kick - just looks like he lacks the real commitment needed to succeed in the AFL.

Same feeling as I get with Keeler.

Also Keeler is showing far more with 2 less years in the system and I'd honestly prefer Heath get a game as a forward than Allison.

Hopefully another club takes a punt on him, but he won't be the most brutal delisting we've had. 4 years is a decent opportunity to impress, even allowing for injuries.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Lots of positives from the win over Richmond. I hope one day to see our VFL team being an ongoing power in the competition. The Saints list management team have improved the list over the past couple of years, but its really up to Sandringham to lift their game with identifying and improving their supp list before they will achieve any real sucess.

IMO a strong and consistent VFL team will improve the AFL team exponentially. Every AFL club needs competition for spots and 30 ready to go players who can step in without a huge drop off.

VFL Player Review: Garcia galore, Hayes returns and a father-son debut at Punt Road

VFL Senior Coach Jake Batchelor outlines every AFL-listed Saint’s performance from the Round 20 match against Richmond.

www.saints.com.au

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Also Keeler is showing far more with 2 less years in the system and I'd honestly prefer Heath get a game as a forward than Allison.

Hopefully another club takes a punt on him, but he won't be the most brutal delisting we've had. 4 years is a decent opportunity to impress, even allowing for injuries.

I wish i could have had a temporary job paying that much from the ages of 18 to 22.

 

[MrFoster]

Like it or not, think there will be a massive clean out at the club this year, last year we made the finals, so no dramatic moves were made, after a disappointing campaign this year, think the knife will fall for up to 10 players..

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

Injured too often: Jones; Hayes, Crouch

Too old: Ross; Membrey; Campbell

May Want out: Battle; Steele; Collard

That’s 12 players already

 

[gringo2011]

Also Keeler is showing far more with 2 less years in the system and I'd honestly prefer Heath get a game as a forward than Allison.

Hopefully another club takes a punt on him, but he won't be the most brutal delisting we've had. 4 years is a decent opportunity to impress, even allowing for injuries.

Pies ditched Poulter who'd shown more years ago. You need to make calls on players at some point and he's had a really good run considering he hasn't really looked close to debut.

Good list managers have to make harsh calls and decide who to persist with. It's a good sign that we are losing better quality players now.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

You don't bring a guy out from Ireland and ditch him after one season, especially when he's shown a bit.

 

[akaifu]

Like it or not, think there will be a massive clean out at the club this year, last year we made the finals, so no dramatic moves were made, after a disappointing campaign this year, think the knife will fall for up to 10 players..

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

Injured too often: Jones; Hayes, Crouch

Too old: Ross; Membrey; Campbell

May Want out: Battle; Steele; Collard

That’s 12 players already

Sandy players have been asked who they think has the highest upside out of all the guys they’ve played with from the AFL list. O’Connell was one of the most prominent answers

Don’t be a stats merchant

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Like it or not, think there will be a massive clean out at the club this year, last year we made the finals, so no dramatic moves were made, after a disappointing campaign this year, think the knife will fall for up to 10 players..

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

Injured too often: Jones; Hayes, Crouch

Too old: Ross; Membrey; Campbell

May Want out: Battle; Steele; Collard

That’s 12 players already

a) O'Connell was picked up as a cat B , Irish Rookie less than a year ago.
If it was necessary for him to be a gun by now, they shouldn't have been looking at the Irish in the first place.
However I'd suggest they will keep him.

b) We're losing one of our key defenders, lets dump the only other one we have that can play at the level.

c) I'll rely on the doctors.

d) You want a younger spud ruckman?

e) Steele may "want" out?

 

[pebblesofsand]

I think the Saints need to move Keeler, Allison and probably Heath on..they are not going to make it at senior level.

Two outta three ain't bad.

 

[Broski]

Pies ditched Poulter who'd shown more years ago. You need to make calls on players at some point and he's had a really good run considering he hasn't really looked close to debut.

Good list managers have to make harsh calls and decide who to persist with. It's a good sign that we are losing better quality players now.

While I agree with the premise of what you are saying, I would be absolutely dumfounded if we delisted a key-forward who has shown plenty in under two seasons of football. Keeler is producing enough for his age and injury history.

Of course he should be moved on if he doesn't continue his progression, like every other player. However, I dare say he will get a one-year deal like a few of our younger uncontracted players. No comfortable multi-year deals. It incentivises them to have a massive preseason and deliver on their potential. If not, they will be replaced.

 

[gringo2011]

While I agree with the premise of what you are saying, I would be absolutely dumfounded if we delisted a key-forward who has shown plenty in under two seasons of football. Keeler is producing enough for his age and injury history.

Of course he should be moved on if he doesn't continue his progression, like every other player. However, I dare say he will get a one-year deal like a few of our younger uncontracted players. No comfortable multi-year deals. It incentivises them to have a massive preseason and deliver on their potential. If not, they will be replaced.

I was talking about Allison. Keeler gets another year.

 

[Premium]

I was talking about Allison. Keeler gets another year.

Tell you the truth I'd sign him for more than 1yr , a tall with his talent are hard to find.
I feel if he was not thrown into the backline for the best part of the year he would all ready be playing or played a couple senior games.
He has the laconic natural ability that a lot of aboriginal footballers have - can take a contested pack screamer and kick freakish goals.
Would love to had Ryder take him under his wing , because he is the ideal forward / ruck we have been looking for.

Allison another story , I know last year Lyon had him lined up to play , due to the injuries we had and he was actually impressing Lyon in the preseason however he broke down and was hardly seen again till the end of the year.
We all know he showed nothing in his first few yrs and last yr was written off through injury and this year he has actually shown something and being only 22 he has only just started to develop into a player - but it will come down to Lyon , however due to the kids athlete ability and age and size I would bet money he will get another year.

We have had a disappointing season but we easily of been playing finals knowing we have lost about 5 games by less than a goal and another 3 losses at 10pts , 17pts and 20pts which could been different results.

I don't want to make excuses but our game plan seemed dated and cumbersome but knowing our midfield were getting creamed most probably caused the problems and not having that other mid who picked up the lazy 25 to 30 possessions hurt us (Crouch was missed)

But the season has not been a lost cause because we have pumped games in to our young guys and guys like Nas , Windhager , Owens , Phillipou , Wilson , Hammer are only going to get better and with kids like Scheomaker , Hastie , McLennan , Keller , Garcia , Heath.

To add to this we have found that Phillipou will be a genuine midfielder , Sharman can dominate on his day and Wilson is a running machine that can be anything , Henry is a ripper and Windhager is developing nicely and has the leadership stamp on him.

We have only got improvement in the squad knowing the young talent we have and to tell you the truth if we can fix the midfield anything can happen - can we get a quick fix , I don't know --- but Steele has not been as punishing as he was a few years ago and not having Crouch we have been found out , we need a senior quality midfielder to mentor our kids.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Like it or not, think there will be a massive clean out at the club this year, last year we made the finals, so no dramatic moves were made, after a disappointing campaign this year, think the knife will fall for up to 10 players..

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

Injured too often: Jones; Hayes, Crouch

Too old: Ross; Membrey; Campbell

May Want out: Battle; Steele; Collard

That’s 12 players already

Howard will stay, especially if Battle goes - which looks very likely.
I’d give Membrey another year. He’s got back to form, is pretty durable and still one of our most accurate kicks for goal.
Doubt Steele is going anywhere.
Collard - now that’s an interesting one.

So I’d take 3 off your list.

 

[saint66au]

Lots of positives from the win over Richmond. I hope one day to see our VFL team being an ongoing power in the competition. The Saints list management team have improved the list over the past couple of years, but its really up to Sandringham to lift their game with identifying and improving their supp list before they will achieve any real sucess.

IMO a strong and consistent VFL team will improve the AFL team exponentially. Every AFL club needs competition for spots and 30 ready to go players who can step in without a huge drop off.

VFL Player Review: Garcia galore, Hayes returns and a father-son debut at Punt Road

VFL Senior Coach Jake Batchelor outlines every AFL-listed Saint’s performance from the Round 20 match against Richmond.

www.saints.com.au

Until Sandy bring in some better VFL-listed mids, they will continued to be totally reliant on St Kilda's injury list to be minimal


Without fringe Saints in the midfield they struggled bigtime

 

[Rogue Warrior]

We ain’t getting rid of Collard. I believe he’s got the highest upside of the 5 draftees last year.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Like it or not, think there will be a massive clean out at the club this year, last year we made the finals, so no dramatic moves were made, after a disappointing campaign this year, think the knife will fall for up to 10 players..

Not good enough/can’t be trusted: Allison, Paton, O’Connell, Howard

Injured too often: Jones; Hayes, Crouch

Too old: Ross; Membrey; Campbell

May Want out: Battle; Steele; Collard

That’s 12 players already

Umm, that won't happen. Last year was reasonably dramatic but also very controlled and sensible. We are not gonna lose Crouch, Ross, Jones, Membrey, Doogs and Steele. That's called suicide.

 

[Zzzed]

For those who are arguing to keep Allison, let me ask you this.

Rewind 12 months. If someone had asked you then what a pass mark for 2024 would be to renew Allison’s contract , how many of you would have said “he just needs to show a bit every now and then at Sandy and no need to play a senior game” .
Answer honestly.

I know it feels like he might just turn the corner, but how many players in the AFL spend 4 years on a list without playing a senior game and then go on to make the grade and have a long career . It just doesn’t happen in modern footy . If you want to name a player, please back it up with number of games played in their first 4 years on a list.

 

[Hugga]

Sandy players have been asked who they think has the highest upside out of all the guys they’ve played with from the AFL list. O’Connell was one of the most prominent answers

Don’t be a stats merchant

That's interesting. Can you tell us any more? Top 5?

Sent from my SM-S711B using Tapatalk

 

[Ads734]

Pies ditched Poulter who'd shown more years ago. You need to make calls on players at some point and he's had a really good run considering he hasn't really looked close to debut.

Good list managers have to make harsh calls and decide who to persist with. It's a good sign that we are losing better quality players now.

Keeler is supremely talented and has shown a lot. He hasn't been able to get an opportunity because there has been no spot no defence. All I am saying is if you are getting rid of Keeler kiss goodbye to van Ess,

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I said this at the time and I still believe it to be the case, whilst admitting I have no inside information.

Van Es had injury problems during the year. He is out of contract and his AFL career is at risk. There were suggestions he could’ve returned at the tail end of the season however he agreed to be put on the LTI list which allowed us to take a selection in the mid season draft (Hall).

My view is that he wouldn’t have done so had he not been given some assurances in regards to 2025. Otherwise surely he would’ve said stuff that and done his best to get out there for Sandy.

Add to that he is exactly the type of player we need going forward and I’d be stunned if he was let go at this stage.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

I said this at the time and I still believe it to be the case, whilst admitting I have no inside information.

Van Es had injury problems during the year. He is out of contract and his AFL career is at risk. There were suggestions he could’ve returned at the tail end of the season however he agreed to be put on the LTI list which allowed us to take a selection in the mid season draft (Hall).

My view is that he wouldn’t have done so had he not been given some assurances in regards to 2025. Otherwise surely he would’ve said stuff that and done his best to get out there for Sandy.

Add to that he is exactly the type of player we need going forward and I’d be stunned if he was let go at this stage.

Bang on assessment. He’ll be locked in for 2025

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I said this at the time and I still believe it to be the case, whilst admitting I have no inside information.

Van Es had injury problems during the year. He is out of contract and his AFL career is at risk. There were suggestions he could’ve returned at the tail end of the season however he agreed to be put on the LTI list which allowed us to take a selection in the mid season draft (Hall).

My view is that he wouldn’t have done so had he not been given some assurances in regards to 2025. Otherwise surely he would’ve said stuff that and done his best to get out there for Sandy.

Add to that he is exactly the type of player we need going forward and I’d be stunned if he was let go at this stage.

Has he been training in full?

 

[SG34]

Watching that game yesterday, I think Hastie was the only player who looked like he had the goods for senior AFL football, and when he builds his tank, I think we will have a player.

A sad indictment.
May I ask, was it all a talent-based appraisal we are talking about here? Or a mental thing? If it’s the former, our stocks are not great.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Watching that game yesterday, I think Hastie was the only player who looked like he had the goods for senior AFL football, and when he builds his tank, I think we will have a player.

Just look back at Rowan Marshall or Callum Wilkie who were recruited as rookies at 21 yo and 23yo. Both are now elite in their positions but they took time to get their bodies and games to a position to play AFL footy. Its simply unrealistic to believe that every kid we recruit is going to become an overnight star and have a major impact at any level in their formative years. Generally they are 18 yo when taken and in the first couple of years just playing against men and larger bodies is a big step. Thats why clubs now have Development Staff to give the kids help and direction during the early years.

There is no doubt Hastie will be a quality player, but so will a number of the group given the right developmental environment and opportunities.

Hugo Garcia for starters has all the tools to be a star and is not far from achieving that,
Olli Hotton is starting to show his midfield game and is improving each week,
Isaac Keeler is progressing nicely and yes he does need to work on his urgency but he does things not many other kids his size can do,
Arie Shoenmaker has elite kicking skills and is not yet the finished product but Im confident will get there,
Jack Hayes if it wasnt for injuries he would be a permanent first 22 player and might still get there,
O'Connell is a speculative Cat B rookie who has also significantly improved this year, its a gamble whether he makes it or not,

The other new kids Elwood Peckett, Lennox Hofmann and Adrian Cole all showed enough to suggest they have a strong future.

Allison, Cordy, Bonner & Campbell are all list fillers that play their role, but are the only players in the team who I would confidently state shouldnt play a lot of AFL footy.

 

[CursingFijian]

Tell you the truth I'd sign him for more than 1yr , a tall with his talent are hard to find.
I feel if he was not thrown into the backline for the best part of the year he would all ready be playing or played a couple senior games.
He has the laconic natural ability that a lot of aboriginal footballers have - can take a contested pack screamer and kick freakish goals.
Would love to had Ryder take him under his wing , because he is the ideal forward / ruck we have been looking for.

Allison another story , I know last year Lyon had him lined up to play , due to the injuries we had and he was actually impressing Lyon in the preseason however he broke down and was hardly seen again till the end of the year.
We all know he showed nothing in his first few yrs and last yr was written off through injury and this year he has actually shown something and being only 22 he has only just started to develop into a player - but it will come down to Lyon , however due to the kids athlete ability and age and size I would bet money he will get another year.

We have had a disappointing season but we easily of been playing finals knowing we have lost about 5 games by less than a goal and another 3 losses at 10pts , 17pts and 20pts which could been different results.

I don't want to make excuses but our game plan seemed dated and cumbersome but knowing our midfield were getting creamed most probably caused the problems and not having that other mid who picked up the lazy 25 to 30 possessions hurt us (Crouch was missed)

But the season has not been a lost cause because we have pumped games in to our young guys and guys like Nas , Windhager , Owens , Phillipou , Wilson , Hammer are only going to get better and with kids like Scheomaker , Hastie , McLennan , Keller , Garcia , Heath.

To add to this we have found that Phillipou will be a genuine midfielder , Sharman can dominate on his day and Wilson is a running machine that can be anything , Henry is a ripper and Windhager is developing nicely and has the leadership stamp on him.

We have only got improvement in the squad knowing the young talent we have and to tell you the truth if we can fix the midfield anything can happen - can we get a quick fix , I don't know --- but Steele has not been as punishing as he was a few years ago and not having Crouch we have been found out , we need a senior quality midfielder to mentor our kids.

Ross Lyon and Corey Enright have been able to develop a strong system based on interceptions and transition out of defense.

It clearly works, even though we have struggled with the final parts of the game plan (forward connection and set shot accuracy). Over the course of the season we have improved though, and hopefully we can continue that trend into 2025.

However, we are often unable to halt opposition momentum, especially against teams who dominate us at stoppage.

We also struggle to build momentum against teams that we should beat everyday of the week, like Richmond and West Coast because we still can’t dominate in the middle.

We have two options. Trade for some classy mids in the right age demographic and challenge now.

Or got the draft and plan for a serious 2027 tilt.

If we can’t get an LDU, Andrew Brayshaw, Noah Anderson, Finn Callaghan type to commit this year then we should just bank the two best stoppage midfielders at this draft.

We really, really need two classy midfielders who can get first hands to the ball and form a tight bond with Phillipou, Henry, Windhager, Garcia, Wilson, and Byrnes.

We should also trade someone to get a late first rounder so we can pick the best ruck in this draft.

King, Sharman, Caminiti, Owens, Higgins is a forward line that can already compete and if we can bring on Keeler and Collard we could be really potent.

Nas, Hastie, Schoenmaker, Stocker down back are in the right age demographic. But if Battle doesn’t stay and Cole or Van Es doesn’t become an AFL’er then we will be chasing back men.

Kuek will probably fall off the Fremantle list, but he has got genuine X-Factor in my book, and is a power athlete. Hampered by injury but could be a great pick up, with our medical team behind him.

I’ve said this before, but if you wanted one out of the box then Bailey J Williams at West Coast has all the tools to be solid key back. Tank, agility, combative, good hands.

He’s been played primarily as a ruck but is way out of his depth there. WC keep hinting they think he’s a key forward long term but he ain’t that either. I really believe Enright could transform him into an outstanding key back and his age profile fits.

If we go to the draft then Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Wood, Howard, Hill, Webster, Butler, Membrey will all be in the twilight of their careers by the time we’re ready to challenge for a premiership. They’re important culture builders, but we shouldn’t be afraid to cut one loose if they can help us fill in the gaps. Especially if we can get players like Parker without eroding our draft position.

Marshall is the only one we can’t afford to loose in my opinion. We have no depth to support him.

Heath will be 22 next year. Marshall played 12 games at that age and his talent was recognisable. Heath won’t ever be better than Tom Campbell based on what I’ve seen. Cut TC and let Heath take the VFL reins, but I won’t be expecting him to ever push Marshall out on form.

Time to make some aggressive moves in my book.

Pay out Crouch. Cut Tom Campbell, and fit him in to our development team. Cut or trade Jack Hayes, Cut Paton, send off Seb Ross (could also fit into our development team) unless he can get another gig elsewhere. Trade Zak Jones if he has any takers, otherwise cut. Zak has made a nice comeback but he ain’t taking us to Mecca. Trade or release Membrey. Cut Allison. Lose Battle.

Peatling, Parker via trade and free agency.

Draper, Langford, Dodson, Moraes, Peckett, Cole.