hayes
Brownlow Medallist
Who’s got this one?
-
Guest - BigFooty Tipping 2025 - Get on! - $500 first prize - Weekly Prizes - Click to Join
PLUS Your club board comp is now up!
News 2024 St.Kilda Media Thread
- Thread starter hayes
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Who’s got this one?
goodie23
Tragic Saint
Veteran
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2023
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2022
St Kilda - James Frawley Player Sponsor 2021
Saints Pledge Contributor
St Kilda - Doulton Langlands Player Sponsor 2020
St Kilda - Robbie Young Player Sponsor 2019
St Kilda - Nathan Freeman Player Sponsor 2018
St Kilda 2024: The X-factors who will help Saints go deeper into September
The Giants made short work of the Saints in the 2023 finals, but is it a sign of things to come in 2024, or can St Kilda make a proper dint in September?They have already been dubbed the likely sliders in 2024.
The popular theory is the Saints caught the opposition off guard in 2023 making finals, but are set to come back to the pack next season.
Ross Lyon will love the cynical view from the outside, knowing the fuel it can add to the Saints’ fire.
Internally, there is optimism around the growth from the likes of Mattaes Phillipou, Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera, Mitch Owens, Max King and Marcus Windhager, while new faces Liam Henry and Paddy Dow help inject some midfield quality.
Lyon and his coaches will set the right tone, ensuring no player is comfortable after a strong 2023.
The Saints’ list still lacks some star power, but as Ange Postecoglou keeps saying at Tottenham in the English Premier League, chemistry, commitment and discipline count for more than big names on your team sheet.
Under Lyon, you know the Saints will give everything they have, but will it be enough?
ST KILDA
Coach: Ross LyonCaptain: Jack Steele
What happened in 2023?
The new era dawned at Moorabbin as Lyon instilled a hard-running midfield ethos and new defensive system which choked the opposition.They won eight of their first 12 games to lay the foundation for a finals berth even without Max King, who hurt his bung shoulder in the preseason.
Jack Hayes went down as well, and they pulled Anthony Caminiti from the clouds, replacing his waiter’s apron from his family’s restaurant with the red, white and black jumper.
The small forwards put enough of a score on and the kids like Owens, Wanganeen-Milera and Windhager came on in a big way. Ticks everywhere.
But Tim Membrey pulled out the morning of the first final and a slick GWS midfield outfit took care of business in the elimination final at the MCG.
It was a reminder there is still a decent gap to the top teams.
But there is a vision and a new level of consistency driving the Saints.
Where do they finish in 2024?
Rebuilds aren’t completed in 12 months and the reality is Lyon and Stephen Silvagni knew the list required some big changes to recalibrate the salary cap.They now have some play space to make some moves, but the trade period is a while away. The spine will be a key focus.
Henry adds class, Dow gives them some burst in the middle, and if King can have a full season he has the potential to kick 60 goals and challenge for the Coleman.
But is he hungry enough? Does he have the durability? The accuracy in front of goal?
It is a huge season for the full-forward, who the Saints need to become an A-Grader.
The midfield has plenty of workhorses, but is still in a transition phase as Owens and Phillipou look to step up alongside Seb Ross, Brad Crouch and Steele.
Adelaide, Western Bulldogs and Gold Coast, in particular, will be desperate to take the Saints’ spot in the eight this year.
If Lyon can keep them in the finals (and win 13 games) for a second-straight year, it would be a super effort.
ST KILDA BEST 23
J. Battle, C. Wilkie, J. WebsterN. Wanganeen-Milera, Z. Cordy, J. Sinclair
B. Hill, M. Crouch, L. Henry
S. D. Butler, T. Membrey, M. Phillipou
J. Higgins, M. King, M. Owens
R. Marshall, J. Steele, S. Ross
P. Dow, H. Clark, M. Windhager, L. Stocker, R. Byrnes (sub)
Biggest improver in 2024?
Phillipou is the one.The big-bodied midfield-forward has special traits and can rise up to pluck a mark, or spin out of a pack to lob a goal on the run.
But a long season caught up with him last year as the top-10 pick rounded out the campaign in quiet fashion, averaging nine touches in his last five games.
As his fitness builds (and he has shone on the track so far this preseason) Phillipou will be given greater responsibilities to lead this new era at St Kilda.
But Lyon will make him earn it with hard work at training and consistent efforts in games.
Phillipou has huge upside in his game and the Saints need him to become a legitimate star of the comp after he gets 100-150 AFL games under his belt.
Essendon took Elijah Tsatas over Phillipou at pick five in the 2022 draft, but it was a close call.
X-factor
Fremantle was filthy Liam Henry left and for good reason.Just as he started to blossom on a wing, the NGA product hightailed for St Kilda.
He is exactly what the Saints need.
He has polish, precision, nice wheels and the moves to take the footy from inside congestion to out into space.
The Saints have some reliable worker bees in the engine room but, as Lyon has said, the club needed more top-end talent to finish the work inside 50m.
Watch as Henry becomes the man the Saints’ onballers want to get the Sherrin to.
They’re a side which creates the opportunities, but can they capitalise?
If Henry is lacing out King on the lead, the Saints will be dangerous.
St Kilda took West Coast NGA product Lance Collard in the draft, who has similarly clean and evasive qualities in the forward half despite the threat of homesickness.
Top draft pick Darcy Wilson is a running machine who the Saints will love using the ball on the outside.
Arie Schoenmaker had the best kick of this year’s draft class as a defender and will add penetration on the rebound.
Coach status
Contracted for three more years, Lyon was open and honest with the Saints about where the club was it when he took over in late 2022.There is much work to be done with a fresh wave of players and the first season defied all expectations making finals.
The club’s fan base is the most excited it has been in some time, because there is a roadmap and a predictability in the way the team plays and the effort they produce.
This next bit will require a bit of patience getting more fresh faces in to fill some holes down the spine and some more top-line midfield ball users.
It’s the finishing pieces which cost the club at times in 2023.
Rowan Marshall has carried a huge load and the ruck needs some help, while another key forward target and key back would be handy.
Who is in the last year of contract?
Matthew Allison, Josh Battle, Dan Butler, Ryan Byrnes, Liam Stocker, Jimmy Webster, Zak Jones, Tom Campbell, Jack Hayes, Max Heath, Oli Hotton, Dougal Howard, Isaac Keeler, Angus McLennan, James van Es, Mattaes Phillipou, Jimmy Webster, Mason Wood, Tim Membrey, Seb Ross, Ben Paton and Cooper Sharman.Outs for 2024
Oscar Adams (delisted), Leo Connolly (delisted), Jack Bytel (delisted), Tom Highmore (delisted), Jack Peris (delisted), Dan McKenzie (delisted), Jade Gresham (free agent, Essendon), Nick Coffield (traded, Western Bulldogs), Jack Billings (traded, Melbourne)Ins for 2024
Liam Henry (traded, Fremantle), Paddy Dow (traded, Carlton), Darcy Wilson (draft No. 18), Lance Collard (28), Angus Hastie (33), Hugo Garcia (50), Arie Schoenmaker (62), Riley Bonner (pre-season draft), Liam O’Connell (international).ST KILDA'S FIRST SIX GAMES
Rd 1 Geelong @ GMHBA Stadium LRd 2 Collingwood @ MCG L
Rd 3 Essendon @ Marvel W
Rd 4 Richmond @ Norwood Oval W
Rd 5 GWS Giants @ Manuka Oval L
Rd 6 Western Bulldogs Marvel Stadium W
Prediction: 3-3
SteeleSaints
Premiership Player
- Mar 26, 2022
- 3,802
- 11,898
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
The below is c/- of theoracle on SS. Its fortunate Champion Data stats dont dictate how well teams are coached and take into account the injured players of 2023 and our huge potential for player growth.
From the Herald Sun:
AFL: Champion Data reveals the deepest lists, with GWS, Carlton and Collingwood rated highly
The Magpies won the flag thanks to superb depth, but are they the best list in the competition? The stats gurus at Champion Data lift the lid on which club has the most contributors.
Josh Barnes
January 4, 2024 - 6:00AM News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
Halfway through the 2023 season, few would have expected the GWS Giants or Carlton to make finals, let alone shape finals.
The two clubs got on spectacular rolls and powered through to preliminary final losses.
While both clubs have superstars — Toby Greene at the Giants and Charlie Curnow at the Blues — they also have deep lists.
Champion Data has combed through each 2023 list and picked out the players rated in the top 50 in every position to help discover the best depth.
It’s no surprise that Collingwood finished with the most players inside the top 50 in their respective position, with the Pies winning the flag in September thanks to a perfect spread of contributors.
Instead of just listing how many players made the grade, each club has been ranked by depth.
To rank all 18 clubs, points were assigned per player bracket within the top 50, with three points per top-10 player, two points for players ranked 11-30 and one point for those ranked 31-50.
For example, GWS had seven top-10 players (for 21 points), six ranked 11-30 (12 points) and nine ranked 31-50 (nine points) to equal a total of 42.
When two teams were tied, the tie-breaker came down to the team with more total players ranked inside the top 50 per position.
The depth analysis is based on 2023 lists, so retirees like Isaac Smith (rated the seventh-best mid-forward in the game) or players traded like Lachie Schultz (eighth-best general forward) remain counted to their 2023 clubs.
Only players who played at least 12 games qualified, with rankings based on ranking points.
Check out where your clubs sits in the depth charts, from the high-flyers to the cellar dwellers needing more contributors.
1. GWS GIANTS
Depth analysis points: 42
Top 10 players: 7, Top 11-30 players: 6, Top 31-50 players: 9, Total players: 22
POSITIONAL BREAKDOWN
Defenders – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 2, Top 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, Top 11-30: 4, Top 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 0, Top 31-50: 6
Top 10 players: Toby Greene (3rd – gen fwd), Kieren Briggs (6th – ruck), Lachie Whitfield (9th – gen def), Sam Taylor (9th – key def), Brent Daniels (10th – gen fwd), Harry Himmelberg (10th – key def), Jesse Hogan (10th – key fwd)
You only had to watch the back end of the 2023 season and two winning finals to see how the Giants played as one.
At times, Adam Kingsley’s side appeared to all move together and have winners everywhere, and that was reflected in our depth numbers.
GWS led the entire league in players rated top-10 in their position with seven and only Collingwood had more top-50 players.
The Giants finished top on our rankings by winning the tie-breaker over Carlton, due to having more players on the top-50.
Given the growth last season, where will the Giants sit in 12 months time?
Given the growth last season, where will the Giants sit in 12 months time?
2023 Midfielder Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs) 129.5
2nd - Clayton Oliver (Melbourne) 122.9
3rd - Christian Petracca (Melbourne) 118.2
4th - Rory Laird (Adelaide) 116.8
5th - Zach Merrett (Essendon) 116.4
2. CARLTON
Depth analysis points: 42
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 13, 31-50: 4, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 2
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 21-50: 1
Top 10 players: Charlie Curnow (1st – key fwd), Blake Acres (6th – wing), Nic Newman (6th – gen def), Jacob Weitering (7th – key def)
Many judges have the Blues with the best list in the competition and these numbers back that up.
Carlton has a great spread across the ground and even has room to grow: Sam Walsh was rated 21st among midfielders and Patrick Cripps 34th last season.
If those two play full seasons at their best, the Blues will be in incredible shape.
Carlton has the stars — Charlie Curnow, Jacob Weitering — and the role players — Blake Acres, Nic Newman — each in their respective top 10.
All fantastic signs ahead of season 2024.
3. COLLINGWOOD
Depth analysis points: 41
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 12, Total: 24
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 5
Midfielders – Top 10: 4, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 5
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Josh Daicos (2nd – wing), Steele Sidebottom (5th – wing), Darcy Moore (6th – key def), Nick Daicos (6th – mid), Taylor Adams (9th – mid-fwd)
More than perhaps anything else, Collingwood’s premiership was built on depth.
Every player filled a role in Craig McRae’s system to a tee and no other team had has many players rated in the top 50 for their position than the Pies’ 24 – which is more than can fit into a team.
Taylor Adams (ninth, mid-forward) drops off the Magpies list, but Lachie Schultz (eighth, general forward) is a pretty good replacement next season.
If the Pies are to become a dynasty team, players like Ash Johnson (40th, key forward), Isaac Quaynor (44th, general defender) and Bobby Hill (41st, general forward) will need to become genuine stars.
Jordan De Goey was ranked 38th for midfielders so could easily vault into the top 10 next year.
4. MELBOURNE
Depth analysis points: 40
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 10, 31-50: 5, Total: 20
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 4, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Clayton Oliver (2nd – mid), Christian Petracca (3rd – mid), Max Gawn (3rd – ruck), Steven May (8th – key def), Lachie Hunter (10th – wing)
Melbourne’s numbers show the strengths and weaknesses clearly.
The Dees have possibly the best top-end midfielders in the game with Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca and Max Gawn all rated in their respective top 3.
But Jacob van Rooyen (22nd, key forward) was the only genuine key forward to earn a ranking and the firepower upfront was severely lacking.
The Demons have long had a strong defence, but only Steven May (eighth, key defender), Jake Lever (17th, key defender) and Trent Rivers (29th, general defender) made the top 30.
2023 Wing Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Errol Gulden (Sydney) 112
2nd - Josh Daicos (Collingwood) 93.3
3rd - Mason Wood (St Kilda) 91.3
4th - Nic Martin (Essendon) 88.1
5th - Steele Sidebottom (Collingwood) 87.5
5. BRISBANE LIONS
Depth analysis points: 39
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 8, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 4
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Joe Daniher (3rd – key fwd), Harris Andrews (4th – key def), Dayne Zorko (5th – mid-fwd), Josh Dunkley (10th – mid), Zac Bailey (10th – mid-fwd)
It may surprise a tad to have Brisbane so low on these rankings, but there is plenty of growth in the numbers.
Superstars Lachie Neale (16th, midfielder) and Charlie Cameron (15th, general forward) are better than their rankings suggest and Hugh McCluggage (36th, midfielder) was marked well down on his usual output.
The Lions may have the best list in the league and are well balanced across the field.
6. ADELAIDE
Depth analysis points: 39
Top 10: 6, Top 11-30: 9, Top 31-50: 3, Total: 18
Defenders – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 3
Midfielders – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 0
Forwards – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 0
Top 10 players: Taylor Walker (2nd – key fwd), Rory Laird (4th – mid), Izak Rankine (5th – gen fwd), Ben Keays (7th, gen fwd), Jordan Dawson (8th, mid), Reilly O’Brien (9th – ruck)
Crows fans will tell you they should have made finals — if not for a certain poster — and our rankings show why.
Adelaide has six top-10 players, a figure only bettered by GWS.
Josh Rachele (11th, general forward) was just outside that top-10 and should jump in soon.
Adelaide showed it can be a deadly attacking side in 2023 but needs a boost in defence, with Josh Worrell (15th, key defender) the highest-rated backman despite only playing 12 games.
Veteran Rory Sloane fell to the 60th-ranked midfielder.
7. SYDNEY
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 3, Top 11-30 11, Top 31-50: 7, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 1, Top 11-30: 3, Top 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 3
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Errol Gulden (1st – wing), Isaac Heeney (4th – gen fwd), Jake Lloyd (8th – gen def)
The Swans are waiting on a key forward to pop.
Logan McDonald (27th), Lance Franklin (31st) and Joel Amartey (34th) were only mid-table for key forwards this year, while Hayden McLean was classified as a ruck and ranked 19th.
Franklin has retired, but as the other young forwards continue to grow they will have plenty of support across the field, including from a dominant Errol Gulden on the wing.
Where will Brodie Grundy land in these rankings by season’s end now he is the No. 1 ruck again?
2023 Midfielder-forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs) 100
2nd - Shai Bolton (Richmond) 96.7
3rd - Caleb Daniel (Western Bulldogs) 92.9
4th - Sam Flanders (Gold Coast) 88.6
5th - Dayne Zorko (Brisbane Lions) 82.8
8. RICHMOND
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 11, 31-50: 4, Total: 19
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 3
Midfielders – Top 10: 2, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 0
Top 10 players: Dustin Martin (1st – gen fwd), Shai Bolton (2nd – mid-fwd), Jayden Short (7th, gen def), Toby Nankervis (7th, gen def)
Richmond still has top-level punch, with 10 players in the top 20 for their position.
The question marks begin after that.
Has Dion Prestia (53rd, midfielder) passed his peak?
Can Jacob Hopper (58th, midfielder) add some punch to the midfield?
Is Dylan Grimes (86th, general defender) in his final year?
If those players — and a few youngsters — lift, Richmond can play finals in 2024.
If not, star talents like Dustin Martin and Shai Bolton will be stuck mid-table.
9. WESTERN BULLDOGS
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 4, Total: 18
Defenders – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 6, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Marcus Bontempelli (1st – mid), Jack Macrae (1st – mid-fwd), Tim English (1st – ruck), Caleb Daniel (3rd – mid-fwd), Bailey Smith (6th, mid-fwd), Tom Liberatore (7th, mid)
Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains said this year the Dogs believed they have a top-four calibre list.
But do they really?
Sure, there is top-tier talent with No. 1 rankings for Marcus Bontempelli (midfielder), Tim English (ruck) and, surprisingly, Jack Macrae (mid-forward).
But after that things fall away pretty quickly.
Only three teams had less players rated in the top 50 and it may not be reasonable to expect Rhylee West, Taylor Duryea, Arthur Jones or Lachie McNeil to jump into the top 50 next year.
Bailey Smith was ranked sixth for mid-forwards and will drop out of the rankings next year after his knee injury.
The Dogs have talent but not quite the depth needed to win games week-in, week-out.
2023 General Defender Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Tom Stewart (Geelong) 113.6
2nd - Luke Ryan (Fremantle) 109.5
3rd - Dan Houston (Port Adelaide) 107.4
4th - Jack Sinclair (St Kilda) 105.9
5th - Harry Sheezel (North Melbourne) 99.5
10. HAWTHORN
Depth analysis points: 36
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 10, 31-50: 7, Total: 20
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Midfielders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: James Sicily (1st – key def), Dylan Moore (2nd – gen fwd), Karl Amon (7th – wing)
A huge bump for the Hawks after finishing 16th on the ladder this year.
Hawthorn has a great spread of top 50 players across the field and four of their best on-ballers didn’t rate as highly as expected.
Jai Newcombe (29th, midfielder), Will Day (32nd, midfielder), James Worpel (43rd, midfielder) and Conor Nash (49th, midfielder) were not loved by ranking points, but had a strong year as a quartet.
Expect improvement from those four and if the Hawks can add more cream on top, they will really be cooking with gas in this list build.
11. FREMANTLE
Depth analysis points: 36
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 6, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Luke Ryan (2nd – gen def), Brennan Cox (5th – key def), Sean Darcy (5th – ruck), Lachie Schultz (8th – gen fwd), Luke Jackson (8th – ruck), Hayden Young (10th – gen def)
Fremantle stalled last year and has now lost its best forward, with Lachie Schultz (eighth, general forward) traded to Collingwood in October.
Sam Switkowski (25th, general forward) was the next best attacker, but Jye Amiss (36th, key forward) should rise up these rankings.
Both Luke Jackson (eighth, ruck) and Sean Darcy (fifth, ruck) rated highly for the same position, while Caleb Serong (13th, midfielder) and Andrew Brayshaw (14th, midfielder) missed the top 10.
The Dockers need more depth and they probably need Serong and Brayshaw to nudge the top-five to be a big improver next year.
2023 Ruck Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Tim English (Western Bulldogs) 128
2nd - Rowan Marshall (St Kilda) 116.2
3rd - Max Gawn (Melbourne) 106.2
4th - Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast) 106.1
5th - Sean Darcy (Fremantle) 105.5
12. GEELONG
Depth analysis points: 35
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 7, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Tom Stewart (1st – gen def), Jeremy Cameron (5th – key fwd), Gryan Miers (6th – gen fwd), Isaac Smith (7th – mid-fwd), Max Holmes (8th – wing), Tom Hawkins (9th – key fwd)
Surprisingly, Geelong had nearly identical numbers last year, with 18 players rated in the top 50 and six top 10s.
A number of players tumbled down the rankings, such as general forwards Tyson Stengle (rated fifth in 2022 and 54th in 2023) and Brad Close (fourth to 29th).The Cats were praised for nabbing Ollie Henry (47th, general forward), Tanner Bruhn (67th, midfielder) and Jack Bowes (71st, general defender) during the 2022 trade period.
However, the trio didn’t add much in terms of rankings points.
It is those players in the younger cohort of the list that will need to drive the club forward.
13. ESSENDON
Depth analysis points: 35
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 4, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 0
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 0, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Jordan Ridley (2nd – key def), Nic Martin (4th – wing), Zach Merrett (5th – mid), Jye Caldwell (8th, mid-fwd), Kyle Langford (8th, key fwd)
Brad Scott’s team has a pretty solid midfield in place — with Nic Martin (fourth, wing), Zach Merrett (fifth, midfield) and the surprising Jye Caldwell (eighth, mid-forward).
Ben McKay is planned to come in and help the excellent Jordan Ridley, but McKay only ranked the 31st best key defender while at North Melbourne last year.
Up forward is the other hole, with Peter Wright not playing enough games to qualify last year and Kyle Langford (eighth, key forward) the only top-30 attacker.
There are some building blocks in place here.
2023 Key Defender Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - James Sicily (Hawthorn) 114.2
2nd - Jordan Ridley (Essendon) 94.9
3rd - Callum Wilkie (St Kilda) 93
4th - Harris Andrews (Brisbane Lions) 88.7
5th - Brennan Cox (Fremantle) 87.8
14. PORT ADELAIDE
Depth analysis points: 33
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 8, Total: 19
Defenders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 4
Midfielders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Dan Houston (3rd – gen def), Charlie Dixon (4th – key fwd), Jeremy Finlayson (6th – key fwd)
Is Port Adelaide the team that won 13 games in a row and looked like a premiership contender or the team that got swept aside to a straight-sets finals exit?
These numbers suggest Ken Hinkley’s men are closer to the latter.
Zak Butters (11th, midfielder) and Connor Rozee (20th, midfielder) have better reputations than their rankings, while Jeremy Finlayson (sixth, key forward) is the opposite.
The Power midfield is probably another year or two away — Jason Horne-Francis was ranked 59th among midfielders and Ollie Wines 54th.
If their weapons become true top-10 players, the Power will be contenders.
But this list has some holes that need to be plugged, with their bevy of recruits not rating highly either.
15. ST KILDA
Depth analysis points: 32
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 7, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Rowan Marshall (2nd – ruck), Mason Wood (3rd – wing), Callum Wilkie (3rd – key def), Jack Sinclair (4th – gen def), Mitch Owens (7th – key fwd)
Much like Port Adelaide, St Kilda outperformed its rankings on the field in a credit to the players and coaches.
Not many outside of the Saints faithful would have had Ross Lyon’s team as one of the top-eight in the league last season.
But they plugged away all year and earned a finals berth despite having just 10 players ranked in the top 30 — the equal lowest in the league.
Max King didn’t qualify for this list given his time sidelined with injury last season, but Mitch Owens (seventh, key forward) and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (25th, general defender) both had super campaigns.
St Kilda will need more from the likes of Jack Steele (45th, midfielder) and Brad Crouch (39th, midfielder), but the growth in this team will come from the youngsters.
2023 Key forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Charlie Curnow (Carlton) 93
2nd - Taylor Walker (Adelaide) 89.6
3rd - Joe Daniher (Brisbane Lions) 84.2
4th - Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide) 83
5th - Jeremy Cameron (Geelong) 82.7
16. GOLD COAST
Depth analysis points: 31
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 7, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 4
Top 10 players: Sam Flanders (4th – mid-fwd), Jarrod Witts (4th – ruck), Ben Ainsworth (9th – gen fwd), Brandon Ellis (9th – wing)
The Suns just didn’t have enough contributors last year.
Gold Coast tied with St Kilda for the least amount of top-30 players, with 10, and only North Melbourne had fewer top-50 players.
It wasn’t just the young players to blame, as Rory Atkins (52nd, general defender), David Swallow (61st, midfielder) and Ben Long (84th, general defender) didn’t make enough impact.
Injury had some effect, but top-line players like Matt Rowell (25th, midfielder), Touk Miller (31st, midfielder) and Ben King (32nd, key forward) also didn’t add enough so will need to lift in 2024.
Damien Hardwick’s team should be eyeing a finals spot but a whole heap of improvement will have to come to get there.
17. WEST COAST
Depth analysis points: 30
Top 10: 0, 11-30: 12, 31-50: 6, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Midfielders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Nil
Every club had at least three players rated top 10 for their position — except West Coast which had none.
It’s a torrid tale for the Eagles.
Even those who were fit and experienced didn’t deliver, with Andrew Gaff (22nd, wing), Tim Kelly (24th, midfielder) and Jack Darling (24th, key forward) not at the level needed.
The Eagles had the most players ranked 11-30 and hope to see some of those players make a leap, but their second-highest ranked player was the retired Shannon Hurn (13th, general defender).
Basically, the Eagles had no stars and a lot of injuries in 2023.
Not a good combination.
2023 General forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Dustin Martin (Richmond) 94.4
2nd - Dylan Moore (Hawthorn) 90.9
3rd - Toby Greene (GWS Giants) 90.9
4th - Isaac Heeney (Sydney) 84.1
5th - Izak Rankine (Adelaide) 82.6
18. NORTH MELBOURNE
Depth analysis points: 30
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 5, Total: 16
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Harry Sheezel (5th – gen def), Luke Davies-Uniacke (9th – mid), Todd Goldstein (10th – ruck)
It’s probably not a surprise to see the Roos come in last.
No club had less players in the top-50, so lets look at who could make that grade in 2024.
Jy Simpkin (57th, midfielder), Will Phillips (64th, midfielder), Jaidyn Stephenson (73rd, general forward) and Paul Curtis (77th, general forward) can all lift.
Tarryn Thomas ranked 42nd for midfielders and needs to rise, while Todd Goldstein (10th, ruck) was one of the highest at the Roos and he is now gone.
The good news is Harry Sheezel (fifth, general defender) and Luke Davies-Uniacke (ninth, midfielder) should both keep getting better.
The Roos will continue to lose plenty of games in 2024 but will hope their young players can soon develop into top-10 calibre contributors.
From the Herald Sun:
AFL: Champion Data reveals the deepest lists, with GWS, Carlton and Collingwood rated highly
The Magpies won the flag thanks to superb depth, but are they the best list in the competition? The stats gurus at Champion Data lift the lid on which club has the most contributors.
Josh Barnes
January 4, 2024 - 6:00AM News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
Halfway through the 2023 season, few would have expected the GWS Giants or Carlton to make finals, let alone shape finals.
The two clubs got on spectacular rolls and powered through to preliminary final losses.
While both clubs have superstars — Toby Greene at the Giants and Charlie Curnow at the Blues — they also have deep lists.
Champion Data has combed through each 2023 list and picked out the players rated in the top 50 in every position to help discover the best depth.
It’s no surprise that Collingwood finished with the most players inside the top 50 in their respective position, with the Pies winning the flag in September thanks to a perfect spread of contributors.
Instead of just listing how many players made the grade, each club has been ranked by depth.
To rank all 18 clubs, points were assigned per player bracket within the top 50, with three points per top-10 player, two points for players ranked 11-30 and one point for those ranked 31-50.
For example, GWS had seven top-10 players (for 21 points), six ranked 11-30 (12 points) and nine ranked 31-50 (nine points) to equal a total of 42.
When two teams were tied, the tie-breaker came down to the team with more total players ranked inside the top 50 per position.
The depth analysis is based on 2023 lists, so retirees like Isaac Smith (rated the seventh-best mid-forward in the game) or players traded like Lachie Schultz (eighth-best general forward) remain counted to their 2023 clubs.
Only players who played at least 12 games qualified, with rankings based on ranking points.
Check out where your clubs sits in the depth charts, from the high-flyers to the cellar dwellers needing more contributors.
1. GWS GIANTS
Depth analysis points: 42
Top 10 players: 7, Top 11-30 players: 6, Top 31-50 players: 9, Total players: 22
POSITIONAL BREAKDOWN
Defenders – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 2, Top 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, Top 11-30: 4, Top 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 3, Top 11-30: 0, Top 31-50: 6
Top 10 players: Toby Greene (3rd – gen fwd), Kieren Briggs (6th – ruck), Lachie Whitfield (9th – gen def), Sam Taylor (9th – key def), Brent Daniels (10th – gen fwd), Harry Himmelberg (10th – key def), Jesse Hogan (10th – key fwd)
You only had to watch the back end of the 2023 season and two winning finals to see how the Giants played as one.
At times, Adam Kingsley’s side appeared to all move together and have winners everywhere, and that was reflected in our depth numbers.
GWS led the entire league in players rated top-10 in their position with seven and only Collingwood had more top-50 players.
The Giants finished top on our rankings by winning the tie-breaker over Carlton, due to having more players on the top-50.
Given the growth last season, where will the Giants sit in 12 months time?
Given the growth last season, where will the Giants sit in 12 months time?
2023 Midfielder Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs) 129.5
2nd - Clayton Oliver (Melbourne) 122.9
3rd - Christian Petracca (Melbourne) 118.2
4th - Rory Laird (Adelaide) 116.8
5th - Zach Merrett (Essendon) 116.4
2. CARLTON
Depth analysis points: 42
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 13, 31-50: 4, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 2
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 21-50: 1
Top 10 players: Charlie Curnow (1st – key fwd), Blake Acres (6th – wing), Nic Newman (6th – gen def), Jacob Weitering (7th – key def)
Many judges have the Blues with the best list in the competition and these numbers back that up.
Carlton has a great spread across the ground and even has room to grow: Sam Walsh was rated 21st among midfielders and Patrick Cripps 34th last season.
If those two play full seasons at their best, the Blues will be in incredible shape.
Carlton has the stars — Charlie Curnow, Jacob Weitering — and the role players — Blake Acres, Nic Newman — each in their respective top 10.
All fantastic signs ahead of season 2024.
3. COLLINGWOOD
Depth analysis points: 41
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 12, Total: 24
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 5
Midfielders – Top 10: 4, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 5
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Josh Daicos (2nd – wing), Steele Sidebottom (5th – wing), Darcy Moore (6th – key def), Nick Daicos (6th – mid), Taylor Adams (9th – mid-fwd)
More than perhaps anything else, Collingwood’s premiership was built on depth.
Every player filled a role in Craig McRae’s system to a tee and no other team had has many players rated in the top 50 for their position than the Pies’ 24 – which is more than can fit into a team.
Taylor Adams (ninth, mid-forward) drops off the Magpies list, but Lachie Schultz (eighth, general forward) is a pretty good replacement next season.
If the Pies are to become a dynasty team, players like Ash Johnson (40th, key forward), Isaac Quaynor (44th, general defender) and Bobby Hill (41st, general forward) will need to become genuine stars.
Jordan De Goey was ranked 38th for midfielders so could easily vault into the top 10 next year.
4. MELBOURNE
Depth analysis points: 40
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 10, 31-50: 5, Total: 20
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 4, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Clayton Oliver (2nd – mid), Christian Petracca (3rd – mid), Max Gawn (3rd – ruck), Steven May (8th – key def), Lachie Hunter (10th – wing)
Melbourne’s numbers show the strengths and weaknesses clearly.
The Dees have possibly the best top-end midfielders in the game with Clayton Oliver, Christian Petracca and Max Gawn all rated in their respective top 3.
But Jacob van Rooyen (22nd, key forward) was the only genuine key forward to earn a ranking and the firepower upfront was severely lacking.
The Demons have long had a strong defence, but only Steven May (eighth, key defender), Jake Lever (17th, key defender) and Trent Rivers (29th, general defender) made the top 30.
2023 Wing Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Errol Gulden (Sydney) 112
2nd - Josh Daicos (Collingwood) 93.3
3rd - Mason Wood (St Kilda) 91.3
4th - Nic Martin (Essendon) 88.1
5th - Steele Sidebottom (Collingwood) 87.5
5. BRISBANE LIONS
Depth analysis points: 39
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 8, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 4
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Joe Daniher (3rd – key fwd), Harris Andrews (4th – key def), Dayne Zorko (5th – mid-fwd), Josh Dunkley (10th – mid), Zac Bailey (10th – mid-fwd)
It may surprise a tad to have Brisbane so low on these rankings, but there is plenty of growth in the numbers.
Superstars Lachie Neale (16th, midfielder) and Charlie Cameron (15th, general forward) are better than their rankings suggest and Hugh McCluggage (36th, midfielder) was marked well down on his usual output.
The Lions may have the best list in the league and are well balanced across the field.
6. ADELAIDE
Depth analysis points: 39
Top 10: 6, Top 11-30: 9, Top 31-50: 3, Total: 18
Defenders – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 3
Midfielders – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 0
Forwards – Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 0
Top 10 players: Taylor Walker (2nd – key fwd), Rory Laird (4th – mid), Izak Rankine (5th – gen fwd), Ben Keays (7th, gen fwd), Jordan Dawson (8th, mid), Reilly O’Brien (9th – ruck)
Crows fans will tell you they should have made finals — if not for a certain poster — and our rankings show why.
Adelaide has six top-10 players, a figure only bettered by GWS.
Josh Rachele (11th, general forward) was just outside that top-10 and should jump in soon.
Adelaide showed it can be a deadly attacking side in 2023 but needs a boost in defence, with Josh Worrell (15th, key defender) the highest-rated backman despite only playing 12 games.
Veteran Rory Sloane fell to the 60th-ranked midfielder.
7. SYDNEY
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 3, Top 11-30 11, Top 31-50: 7, Total: 21
Defenders – Top 10: 1, Top 11-30: 3, Top 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 3
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Errol Gulden (1st – wing), Isaac Heeney (4th – gen fwd), Jake Lloyd (8th – gen def)
The Swans are waiting on a key forward to pop.
Logan McDonald (27th), Lance Franklin (31st) and Joel Amartey (34th) were only mid-table for key forwards this year, while Hayden McLean was classified as a ruck and ranked 19th.
Franklin has retired, but as the other young forwards continue to grow they will have plenty of support across the field, including from a dominant Errol Gulden on the wing.
Where will Brodie Grundy land in these rankings by season’s end now he is the No. 1 ruck again?
2023 Midfielder-forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs) 100
2nd - Shai Bolton (Richmond) 96.7
3rd - Caleb Daniel (Western Bulldogs) 92.9
4th - Sam Flanders (Gold Coast) 88.6
5th - Dayne Zorko (Brisbane Lions) 82.8
8. RICHMOND
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 11, 31-50: 4, Total: 19
Defenders – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 3
Midfielders – Top 10: 2, 11-30: 7, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 0
Top 10 players: Dustin Martin (1st – gen fwd), Shai Bolton (2nd – mid-fwd), Jayden Short (7th, gen def), Toby Nankervis (7th, gen def)
Richmond still has top-level punch, with 10 players in the top 20 for their position.
The question marks begin after that.
Has Dion Prestia (53rd, midfielder) passed his peak?
Can Jacob Hopper (58th, midfielder) add some punch to the midfield?
Is Dylan Grimes (86th, general defender) in his final year?
If those players — and a few youngsters — lift, Richmond can play finals in 2024.
If not, star talents like Dustin Martin and Shai Bolton will be stuck mid-table.
9. WESTERN BULLDOGS
Depth analysis points: 38
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 4, Total: 18
Defenders – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Midfielders – Top 10: 6, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Forwards – Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Marcus Bontempelli (1st – mid), Jack Macrae (1st – mid-fwd), Tim English (1st – ruck), Caleb Daniel (3rd – mid-fwd), Bailey Smith (6th, mid-fwd), Tom Liberatore (7th, mid)
Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains said this year the Dogs believed they have a top-four calibre list.
But do they really?
Sure, there is top-tier talent with No. 1 rankings for Marcus Bontempelli (midfielder), Tim English (ruck) and, surprisingly, Jack Macrae (mid-forward).
But after that things fall away pretty quickly.
Only three teams had less players rated in the top 50 and it may not be reasonable to expect Rhylee West, Taylor Duryea, Arthur Jones or Lachie McNeil to jump into the top 50 next year.
Bailey Smith was ranked sixth for mid-forwards and will drop out of the rankings next year after his knee injury.
The Dogs have talent but not quite the depth needed to win games week-in, week-out.
2023 General Defender Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Tom Stewart (Geelong) 113.6
2nd - Luke Ryan (Fremantle) 109.5
3rd - Dan Houston (Port Adelaide) 107.4
4th - Jack Sinclair (St Kilda) 105.9
5th - Harry Sheezel (North Melbourne) 99.5
10. HAWTHORN
Depth analysis points: 36
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 10, 31-50: 7, Total: 20
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Midfielders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: James Sicily (1st – key def), Dylan Moore (2nd – gen fwd), Karl Amon (7th – wing)
A huge bump for the Hawks after finishing 16th on the ladder this year.
Hawthorn has a great spread of top 50 players across the field and four of their best on-ballers didn’t rate as highly as expected.
Jai Newcombe (29th, midfielder), Will Day (32nd, midfielder), James Worpel (43rd, midfielder) and Conor Nash (49th, midfielder) were not loved by ranking points, but had a strong year as a quartet.
Expect improvement from those four and if the Hawks can add more cream on top, they will really be cooking with gas in this list build.
11. FREMANTLE
Depth analysis points: 36
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 6, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Luke Ryan (2nd – gen def), Brennan Cox (5th – key def), Sean Darcy (5th – ruck), Lachie Schultz (8th – gen fwd), Luke Jackson (8th – ruck), Hayden Young (10th – gen def)
Fremantle stalled last year and has now lost its best forward, with Lachie Schultz (eighth, general forward) traded to Collingwood in October.
Sam Switkowski (25th, general forward) was the next best attacker, but Jye Amiss (36th, key forward) should rise up these rankings.
Both Luke Jackson (eighth, ruck) and Sean Darcy (fifth, ruck) rated highly for the same position, while Caleb Serong (13th, midfielder) and Andrew Brayshaw (14th, midfielder) missed the top 10.
The Dockers need more depth and they probably need Serong and Brayshaw to nudge the top-five to be a big improver next year.
2023 Ruck Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Tim English (Western Bulldogs) 128
2nd - Rowan Marshall (St Kilda) 116.2
3rd - Max Gawn (Melbourne) 106.2
4th - Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast) 106.1
5th - Sean Darcy (Fremantle) 105.5
12. GEELONG
Depth analysis points: 35
Top 10: 6, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 7, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Tom Stewart (1st – gen def), Jeremy Cameron (5th – key fwd), Gryan Miers (6th – gen fwd), Isaac Smith (7th – mid-fwd), Max Holmes (8th – wing), Tom Hawkins (9th – key fwd)
Surprisingly, Geelong had nearly identical numbers last year, with 18 players rated in the top 50 and six top 10s.
A number of players tumbled down the rankings, such as general forwards Tyson Stengle (rated fifth in 2022 and 54th in 2023) and Brad Close (fourth to 29th).The Cats were praised for nabbing Ollie Henry (47th, general forward), Tanner Bruhn (67th, midfielder) and Jack Bowes (71st, general defender) during the 2022 trade period.
However, the trio didn’t add much in terms of rankings points.
It is those players in the younger cohort of the list that will need to drive the club forward.
13. ESSENDON
Depth analysis points: 35
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 4, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 0
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 0, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Jordan Ridley (2nd – key def), Nic Martin (4th – wing), Zach Merrett (5th – mid), Jye Caldwell (8th, mid-fwd), Kyle Langford (8th, key fwd)
Brad Scott’s team has a pretty solid midfield in place — with Nic Martin (fourth, wing), Zach Merrett (fifth, midfield) and the surprising Jye Caldwell (eighth, mid-forward).
Ben McKay is planned to come in and help the excellent Jordan Ridley, but McKay only ranked the 31st best key defender while at North Melbourne last year.
Up forward is the other hole, with Peter Wright not playing enough games to qualify last year and Kyle Langford (eighth, key forward) the only top-30 attacker.
There are some building blocks in place here.
2023 Key Defender Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - James Sicily (Hawthorn) 114.2
2nd - Jordan Ridley (Essendon) 94.9
3rd - Callum Wilkie (St Kilda) 93
4th - Harris Andrews (Brisbane Lions) 88.7
5th - Brennan Cox (Fremantle) 87.8
14. PORT ADELAIDE
Depth analysis points: 33
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 8, Total: 19
Defenders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 4
Midfielders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Top 10 players: Dan Houston (3rd – gen def), Charlie Dixon (4th – key fwd), Jeremy Finlayson (6th – key fwd)
Is Port Adelaide the team that won 13 games in a row and looked like a premiership contender or the team that got swept aside to a straight-sets finals exit?
These numbers suggest Ken Hinkley’s men are closer to the latter.
Zak Butters (11th, midfielder) and Connor Rozee (20th, midfielder) have better reputations than their rankings, while Jeremy Finlayson (sixth, key forward) is the opposite.
The Power midfield is probably another year or two away — Jason Horne-Francis was ranked 59th among midfielders and Ollie Wines 54th.
If their weapons become true top-10 players, the Power will be contenders.
But this list has some holes that need to be plugged, with their bevy of recruits not rating highly either.
15. ST KILDA
Depth analysis points: 32
Top 10: 5, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 7, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 3
Top 10 players: Rowan Marshall (2nd – ruck), Mason Wood (3rd – wing), Callum Wilkie (3rd – key def), Jack Sinclair (4th – gen def), Mitch Owens (7th – key fwd)
Much like Port Adelaide, St Kilda outperformed its rankings on the field in a credit to the players and coaches.
Not many outside of the Saints faithful would have had Ross Lyon’s team as one of the top-eight in the league last season.
But they plugged away all year and earned a finals berth despite having just 10 players ranked in the top 30 — the equal lowest in the league.
Max King didn’t qualify for this list given his time sidelined with injury last season, but Mitch Owens (seventh, key forward) and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (25th, general defender) both had super campaigns.
St Kilda will need more from the likes of Jack Steele (45th, midfielder) and Brad Crouch (39th, midfielder), but the growth in this team will come from the youngsters.
2023 Key forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Charlie Curnow (Carlton) 93
2nd - Taylor Walker (Adelaide) 89.6
3rd - Joe Daniher (Brisbane Lions) 84.2
4th - Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide) 83
5th - Jeremy Cameron (Geelong) 82.7
16. GOLD COAST
Depth analysis points: 31
Top 10: 4, 11-30: 6, 31-50: 7, Total: 17
Defenders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Midfielders: Top 10: 3, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 1, 31-50: 4
Top 10 players: Sam Flanders (4th – mid-fwd), Jarrod Witts (4th – ruck), Ben Ainsworth (9th – gen fwd), Brandon Ellis (9th – wing)
The Suns just didn’t have enough contributors last year.
Gold Coast tied with St Kilda for the least amount of top-30 players, with 10, and only North Melbourne had fewer top-50 players.
It wasn’t just the young players to blame, as Rory Atkins (52nd, general defender), David Swallow (61st, midfielder) and Ben Long (84th, general defender) didn’t make enough impact.
Injury had some effect, but top-line players like Matt Rowell (25th, midfielder), Touk Miller (31st, midfielder) and Ben King (32nd, key forward) also didn’t add enough so will need to lift in 2024.
Damien Hardwick’s team should be eyeing a finals spot but a whole heap of improvement will have to come to get there.
17. WEST COAST
Depth analysis points: 30
Top 10: 0, 11-30: 12, 31-50: 6, Total: 18
Defenders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 4, 31-50: 2
Midfielders: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 5, 31-50: 3
Forwards: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Nil
Every club had at least three players rated top 10 for their position — except West Coast which had none.
It’s a torrid tale for the Eagles.
Even those who were fit and experienced didn’t deliver, with Andrew Gaff (22nd, wing), Tim Kelly (24th, midfielder) and Jack Darling (24th, key forward) not at the level needed.
The Eagles had the most players ranked 11-30 and hope to see some of those players make a leap, but their second-highest ranked player was the retired Shannon Hurn (13th, general defender).
Basically, the Eagles had no stars and a lot of injuries in 2023.
Not a good combination.
2023 General forward Top 5
Rank - Player SuperCoach ranking points
1st - Dustin Martin (Richmond) 94.4
2nd - Dylan Moore (Hawthorn) 90.9
3rd - Toby Greene (GWS Giants) 90.9
4th - Isaac Heeney (Sydney) 84.1
5th - Izak Rankine (Adelaide) 82.6
18. NORTH MELBOURNE
Depth analysis points: 30
Top 10: 3, 11-30: 8, 31-50: 5, Total: 16
Defenders: Top 10: 1, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Midfielders: Top 10: 2, 11-30: 3, 31-50: 2
Forwards: Top 10: 0, 11-30: 2, 31-50: 1
Top 10 players: Harry Sheezel (5th – gen def), Luke Davies-Uniacke (9th – mid), Todd Goldstein (10th – ruck)
It’s probably not a surprise to see the Roos come in last.
No club had less players in the top-50, so lets look at who could make that grade in 2024.
Jy Simpkin (57th, midfielder), Will Phillips (64th, midfielder), Jaidyn Stephenson (73rd, general forward) and Paul Curtis (77th, general forward) can all lift.
Tarryn Thomas ranked 42nd for midfielders and needs to rise, while Todd Goldstein (10th, ruck) was one of the highest at the Roos and he is now gone.
The good news is Harry Sheezel (fifth, general defender) and Luke Davies-Uniacke (ninth, midfielder) should both keep getting better.
The Roos will continue to lose plenty of games in 2024 but will hope their young players can soon develop into top-10 calibre contributors.
- May 3, 2017
- 799
- 1,801
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
What an absolute load of shit this is!
- Jun 17, 2018
- 3,761
- 15,532
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Jesus, you hang for a bit of news at this time of year...but when the Herald Sun dribbles out a bag of bollocks like that...it just makes you realise that silence is golden 
- Mar 14, 2011
- 17,086
- 87,837
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Leeds united, Chicago Bulls
If it makes you feel better.Jesus, you hang for a bit of news at this time of year...but when the Herald Sun dribbles out a bag of bollocks like that...it just makes you realise that silence is golden
Those Sydney sides in the mid 2000s when they won a flag and contended regularly got dismissed in all the media fluff.
Meanwhile our club was lauded for its plethora of stars… and won nothing.
All opinions. Only a certain few mean anything and they aren’t those at the Herald Sun.
goodie23
Tragic Saint
Veteran
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2023
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2022
St Kilda - James Frawley Player Sponsor 2021
Saints Pledge Contributor
St Kilda - Doulton Langlands Player Sponsor 2020
St Kilda - Robbie Young Player Sponsor 2019
St Kilda - Nathan Freeman Player Sponsor 2018
I suppose that's one way of showing that Champion Data is bollocks. Raw stats are only ever part of reality - this is akin to an old riddle:
At the beginning of the First World War, the uniform of the British soldiers included a brown cloth cap. As the war went on, the Army authorities in the war office became alarmed at the high proportion of men suffering head injuries. They decided to replace the cloth headgear with metal helmets. However, the war office was then amazed to discover that there were more soldiers hospitalised with head injuries than ever before.
It can be assumed that the intensity of fighting was the same before and after the change. So, why should the recorded number of head injuries increase when the men were wearing metal helmets rather than cloth caps?
Evidence that someone spent far too much time over Christmas with their spreadsheet.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
It’s based on data so probably right but that means nothing as far as how far you go. Probably look worse if you go off a 5 year average too. King could be top 5 KPF by the end of next year and our shit midfield should go up a peg with the new additions. Let them underrate where we could finish.
George
Premium Platinum
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2023
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2022
St Kilda - James Frawley Player Sponsor 2021
Saints Pledge Contributor
St Kilda - Doulton Langlands Player Sponsor 2020
St Kilda - Nathan Freeman Player Sponsor 2018
St Kilda - Robbie Young Player Sponsor 2019
Reimagine Moorabbin
- Aug 17, 2015
- 45,307
- 127,300
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Phi Eagles & Phillies, Liverpool, PAO FC
- Banned
- #10
- Nov 20, 2022
- 2,932
- 13,551
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
I do like Higgins as a player but he needs to improve his goal conversion plus his defensive side of his game!
Feels like he's one of a number of players that need to step up for us to be serious challengers. 100 games in he's no longer a kid.
I reckon Ross gets the best out of him, similar to Milney.
I think half the issue is that he does play similar to Milney but the rest of our setup doesn't support that very well.
Max doesn't lead, and we still just kick it on his head so the f50 or f25 is always too congested.
Snags should drop all the weight he can to try and find a bit more zip, else Collard may snaffle his spot sooner than expected.
gubby88
Club Legend
- Jul 31, 2022
- 2,085
- 6,819
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
After watching Max's highlights last year, he was leading alot. Took alot of marks on the lead, but also when he leads, defenders now also drop into his space
StCicatriz
Brownlow Medallist
- Aug 3, 2016
- 29,134
- 63,713
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
ive seen some absolute garbage in my time. thats right up there.
- Jul 29, 2007
- 4,449
- 11,279
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
Article lost all credibility as soon as they mentioned players no longer playing as part of depth for 2024. Like seriously? how flipping stupid.
Credibility stopped for me at HS and CD
It’s a myth that Max doesn’t lead. Max was averaging like 3 goals a game which is like equal to the top few forwards. He just needs to stay fit.
sasaint
Premium Platinum
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2024
Veteran
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2023
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2022
St Kilda - James Frawley Player Sponsor 2021
St Kilda - Doulton Langlands Player Sponsor 2020
St Kilda - Robbie Young Player Sponsor 2019
St Kilda - Nathan Freeman Player Sponsor 2018
In case anyone is interested in the "Helmet paradox"
- Survivorship Bias: The introduction of metal helmets likely improved overall soldier survivability. Soldiers wearing metal helmets were more likely to survive injuries that would have been fatal with cloth caps. As a result, the proportion of head injuries among hospitalized soldiers increased because soldiers were surviving incidents that would have been lethal in the past.
- Changed Behavior: Soldiers may have altered their behavior when wearing metal helmets, feeling a false sense of security. With the perceived protection of a metal helmet, soldiers might have been more inclined to take risks or engage in more dangerous behavior than when they wore cloth caps. This increased risk-taking behavior could have contributed to the higher incidence of head injuries.
- Increased Exposure: The metal helmets might have encouraged soldiers to expose themselves more frequently in situations where they felt protected. This increased exposure could have led to a higher number of head injuries, even if the overall intensity of fighting remained constant.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
He didn't under Ratts, his whole game looked much better when he got back in. He looks ready to explode next season.
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
It's just based on how many players of certain levels you have. Not much different to how we all see it IMO. We have a good deep squad but lack the real cream of the best sides. If we get 5 or 6 take another step forward like they did last year and a few more stay fit our side will look better on paper. That said Lyon can cover a lot of issues through work ethic and system that a similar list would struggle with under a different coach.
You'd rather a squad if 26 good players than an uneven top heavy list most of the time. The Pies beat a top heavy Saints in 2010 with a deep spread.
We probably still don't have a true elite star player as of the end of last season. A few could be pretty close by this time in 2025.
George
Premium Platinum
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2023
St Kilda - Marcus Windhager Player Sponsor 2022
St Kilda - James Frawley Player Sponsor 2021
Saints Pledge Contributor
St Kilda - Doulton Langlands Player Sponsor 2020
St Kilda - Nathan Freeman Player Sponsor 2018
St Kilda - Robbie Young Player Sponsor 2019
Reimagine Moorabbin
- Aug 17, 2015
- 45,307
- 127,300
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Phi Eagles & Phillies, Liverpool, PAO FC
- Banned
- #23
gringo2011
Premium Platinum
You simple campaigners make me write an essay so that you can have a basic level of comprehension and then get pissy and pretend that you knew what was happening all along.
Last edited:
- Status
