List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[The Punter]

Greshams agent knew what we were offering (verbally).

He asked that we didn’t formalise an offer - as it would have set a market price. I.e we thought he was worth 550. So the offers would be slightly higher than that.

He asked to present the club offers as he believed there was better deals out there and as he was a RFA the club could match or force clubs chasing Gresham to increase their offer if they wanted him.

So if we had made an offer, a bidding war could potentially have started, meaning Essendon would have ended up paying more. Or someone else would have gotten him.

I still don't understand why we did Essendon this favour considering their well earned reputation for being difficult to deal with at the trade table. Happy to stand corrected if I am mistaken.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think this is a bit of an interpretation thing.

Your second sentence is what i think is correct but you could also see that as pushing him out.

If you start to think of a player as a commodity and then look at what he can net you opposed to what he brings that can feel like a push.

I wouldnt go as far as "pushing him out" but i can also see how a player might feel like the club is valuing the pick more than them.

How?
I thought I was quite clear in what I said about it not being the Saints who approached the Hawks to get rid of the UFA.
Pretty sure if right at the beginning Battle said he’s not going to exercise his option and stay at the club, they would have been rapt.

 

[stavro#4]

So if we had made an offer, a bidding war could potentially have started, meaning Essendon would have ended up paying more. Or someone else would have gotten him.

I still don't understand why we did Essendon this favour considering their well earned reputation for being difficult to deal with at the trade table. Happy to stand corrected if I am mistaken.

Our offer was significantly lower then what Gresham got.

There was a verbal offer. Nothing official.

 

[Linton Street Saint]

Linton Street Saint

So if we had made Gresham a formal offer, Essendon would have reduced their offer? Or are we just being bullied by Dodoro through a third party? Can you just explain it to me without the derision your under 200 posts hasn't earned you yet around here?

Gresham via his agent asked us not to make a formal offer because it would negatively impact his value / contract with the Injectors.

Our offer was below essendons.

By not formalising that offer. It didn’t crystallise the market for Gresh. It allowed it to be set by the clubs after him.

What more do you need ? ( FWIW you started with derision, I match it by pointing out stupid. Apologies though no one told me I need to hit a magical post no. before I did so )

 

[phantom13]

How?
I thought I was quite clear in what I said about it not being the Saints who approached the Hawks to get rid of the UFA.
Pretty sure if right at the beginning Battle said he’s not going to exercise his option and stay at the club, they would have been rapt.

Didnt i just explain this?

Making Battle a "worth x but also a first round pick" can be seen as commodifying him. Im not saying i see it that way but i can also see how others (possibly including Josh) might.

The fact we didnt approach the hawks isnt really relevant. Weve been opportunistic about our asset.

 

[saintkildaman]

Wants to explore interest in the market apparently

Probably because we’ve low balled him or haven’t offered anything. Bloke has earned a multi year deal, even if purely for the fact that we have fk all KPD depth. Will be dirty if we lose both and bring in a Zaine Cordy-like replacement on a 3 year deal lol

 

[Mowman]

Because it’s not a random off the mark response.

It’s a history of things that have been mentioned that have been spot on.

In June I was talking these 800-850 figures.

So your argument is that they are the least successful professional sporting club.

My response to you is that what they are telling me has a history of being very very accurate.

so if they believe they will get a band 1 pick as far back as 3 months ago. Then I have no reason to doubt them.

So are we saying it wasn't discussed back January that we wanted to get back into the top end of this draft and SOS & Gubby decided it would be Battle that would be used for this, well before the season had even started


Is the reason Battle changed his mind after the Pies game that he and his management found out/got pissed when they got wind of what was going on, maybe the same reason Steele is pissed because the 2 incompetent fools that are SOS & Gubby tried to flog off the Captain of the club without even speaking to him ?

If Battle leaves for anything less then pick 7 the fools from list management should be marched out the front door

So everyone blaming Battle or wondering why he is leaving there is always 2 sides of a story

Gubby is a dinosaur and SOS seems to upset every place he works

 

[The Punter]

What more do you need ? ( FWIW you started with derision, I match it by pointing out stupid. Apologies though no one told me I need to hit a magical post no. before I did so )

I completely reject the suggestion I broke out the derision first.

 

[The Punter]

Our offer was significantly lower then what Gresham got.

There was a verbal offer. Nothing official.

OK, so our offer would have dragged Essendon's lower. Now I understand. Thank you for the explanation.

So we were doing the opposite of doing Essendon a favour. Even more pleasing.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

So are we saying it wasn't discussed back January that we wanted to get back into the top end of this draft and SOS & Gubby decided it would be Battle that would be used for this, well before the season had even started


Is the reason Battle changed his mind after the Pies game that he and his management found out/got pissed when they got wind of what was going on, maybe the same reason Steele is pissed because the 2 incompetent fools that are SOS & Gubby tried to flog off the Captain of the club without even speaking to him ?

If Battle leaves for anything less then pick 7 the fools from list management should be marched out the front door

So everyone blaming Battle or wondering why he is leaving there is always 2 sides of a story

Gubby is a dinosaur and SOS seems to upset every place works

 

[stavro#4]

So are we saying it wasn't discussed back January that we wanted to get back into the top end of this draft and SOS & Gubby decided it would be Battle that would be used for this, well before the season had even started


Is the reason Battle changed his mind after the Pies game that he and his management found out/got pissed when they got wind of what was going on, maybe the same reason Steele is pissed because the 2 incompetent fools that are SOS & Gubby tried to flog off the Captain of the club without even speaking to him ?

If Battle leaves for anything less then pick 7 the fools from list management should be marched out the front door

So everyone blaming Battle or wondering why he is leaving there is always 2 sides of a story

Gubby is a dinosaur and SOS seems to upset every place works

Welcome back mate.

No idea about the bold. You might. But there was a deal that was close to being agreed that night - so wouldn’t the prior be irrelevant?

 

[stavro#4]

OK, so our offer would have dragged Essendon's lower. Now I understand. Thank you for the explanation.

So we were doing the opposite of doing Essendon a favour. Even more pleasing.

Yes.

And then we threatened to match to ensure an increase first round compo.

The original deal mooted was us taking Shiel and giving them a second rounder.

Gresham goes to the dons and we get band 1 compo.

The afl shut it down.

 

[Linton Street Saint]

I completely reject the suggestion I broke out the derision first.

Easy to when old mate is deleting your posts. Pretty sure you derided me and likened me to posts of previous coach.

Or would you like to reject that too ?

 

[Holy Hunter Clark]

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Punter]

Easy to when old mate is deleting your posts. Pretty sure you derided me and likened me to posts of previous coach.

Or would you like to reject that too ?

I would reject the suggestion that the term "Grant Thomas" is an insult. I've been reading him on Twitter today then looked through some of your old posts and the content and opinions seemed similar. If you were offended, please be assured none was intended.

Hard to see how being told I need to go back to primary school could be construed as anything other than an insult however. And I have no idea why posts are being deleted.

 

[St Neil]

Sam Edmund reporting that Battle has made a request to the club to run through the banner on Sunday with his daughter. It is game 123 for him.

The AFL are so petty.

Who cares? What harm will it do?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Didnt i just explain this?

Making Battle a "worth x but also a first round pick" can be seen as commodifying him. Im not saying i see it that way but i can also see how others (possibly including Josh) might.

The fact we didnt approach the hawks isnt really relevant. Weve been opportunistic about our asset.

Am talking before that. Right at the start.
The club did not shop him.
He could have chosen to stay and not exercise his option but obviously his manager/hawks reached out to each other first.
Once that became a possibility, of course the club is duty bound to get the best return they can for him. This is professional sport - the players have in fact become commodities. There is no such thing as loyalty any more.

Simple fact is Josh could’ve nipped it in the bud by choosing not to take up his option. I’ve he didn’t, well it’s game on. Club would’ve been happy to keep him and they said so and did not lowball him.

 

[Mowman]

Welcome back mate.

No idea about the bold. You might. But there was a deal that was close to being agreed that night - so wouldn’t the prior be irrelevant?

Wouldn't be irrelevant if list management stuffed it up with the treatment of a very respected player of the club both with members and playing group

Remember they were happy to push him out because they thought Arie could fill his spot ? What a balls up if they have got it wrong and dont get pick 7


Make no mistake Battle has been pushed

 

[St Neil]

His daughter might play for the Saints one day. Let them run through the banner if they want to. Could even chair him off.

The guy obvisously loves the club. But this is the modern game, get the big bucks for your family while you can.

Exactly.

Fancy him wanting to run out on the ground, through the banner, with his girl, both wearing Saints jumpers.

Honestly. If it is his last game it’s a beautiful thing.

I must be getting soft in the head as I get older.

 

[St Neil]

Wouldn’t it be great if hawthorn fall into a hole…and this was their spike year.

It’s possible.

I still don’t think they’re much good. Other teams will start putting work into them soon.

 

[Sully111]

Things aren't making sense to me

If everything the club has done has been a calculated move to get more high picks in, why the hell aren't we tanking?

 

[stavro#4]

Wouldn't be irrelevant if list management stuffed it up with the treatment of a very respected player of the club both with members and playing group

Remember they were happy to push him out because they thought Arie could fill his spot ? What a balls up if they have got it wrong and dont get pick 7

They are still confident it’s band 1. Might not be pick 7 because we can’t tank a dead season properly. Thats another issue altogether.

 

[phantom13]

Am talking before that. Right at the start.
The club did not shop him.
He could have chosen to stay and not exercise his option but obviously his manager/hawks reached out to each other first.
Once that became a possibility, of course the club is duty bound to get the best return they can for him. This is professional sport - the players have in fact become commodities. There is no such thing as loyalty any more.

Simple fact is Josh could’ve nipped it in the bud by choosing not to take up his option. I’ve he didn’t, well it’s game on. Club would’ve been happy to keep him and they said so and did not lowball him.

Yeh, youre not really getting my point.

Josh and others might see us shopping as pushing.

Others will see him not signing his first deal as him shopping himself.

To me its just how you see whats happened and your personal interpretation of it.

Again, i dont think we have "pushed" him but i can see how some might see it that way.

 

[St Neil]

Brilliant Doc.

If you leave our board as a free agent we will also demand band 1.

 

[St Neil]

I spoke to Josh briefly at Wednesdays training there is no doubt he is leaving, but I dont think its a decision that has come easy for him. I could see the emotion on his face when I mentioned a couple of things. It is a business decision for both Josh and our club that is not ideal for either party I would think. We need to remember these kids arent robots and he leaving a club and his mates he has been with since he was 18yo wont be easy.

The club played the same game with Gresham last year, but the difference with Josh is I believe there is no way we would let him go if we had other ways to rapidly improve our list holes. Please dont blame Josh for wanting the best for his family.

He is an outstanding young man and I wish him all the best with his future, he will be missed at the Saints.

Well said.