List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Diehard Saint]

Cheers, now I’m wondering who was drafted with that Pick 10 lol


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Pretty sure they used it for Jaeger O Meara.

 

[botts]

Cheers, now I’m wondering who was drafted with that Pick 10 lol


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Think the Gold Coast ended up using it on Flanders

 

[Premium]

So selling our best players hoping to get players better in a gamble. I’m not sure most people understand that having a competitive football side is the goal. Not getting high picks. There is still a very good chance of picks busting. Last 2 years we have drafted exceptionally for the picks available. That is how you make a jump.

We are heading in the right direction , you only have to look at our last 3 first round picks - Nas , Phillipou and Wilson - all look to be future stars.
We currently have a very good crop of young players coming through and the skys the limit.
Battle was a lose for sure but the way we use our defense by flooding the backline the position can be filled no problem imo.

If we can pluck a Brayshaw or a LDU from somewhere we will be pushing towards a flag knowing having a fit King , Henry and improvement in our younger places.

 

[stavro#4]

and you think one extra pick 8 is going to suddenly bridge that massive gap you're talking about?

I think that pick 8 will look nice as we build a core capable of challenging.

We aren’t challenging next season barring a miracle. In which case if we kept Battle we would be looking at 2026… where he is 28.

All of a sudden it doesn’t look that great of a situation and Tassie is feasting on draft pools.

It’s not ideal. But good clubs trade out players where they get better value back. Port traded Wingard and nailed a draft with multiple first rounders.

Letting Gresham go - looks like it has helped us nail a very exciting, albeit raw talent. If Collard leaves we just keep reinvesting and improving draft hands.

It’s not doom and gloom and ultimately the player wanted to leave too.

 

[MordySaint]

The point to the entire scenario was that if we were trading Battle. We would all believe a pick this high in the first round would be “overs” in our favour.

To have a pick this high represents the best chance to find & bring in the best talent.

They tried throwing money at players and no one took it this year.

The alternative is keeping the same group not good enough to compete and trying to bridge that gap with our 1 first rounder.

The bold is the fact.

There isn’t a lot of options to improve when no one wants to take the stupid amount of money on offer.

The issue with offering stupid money is existing players get dis-gruntled when they see non-performing players who are on twice as much as they are... they then start asking their managers to look elsewhere

If we had of locked Battle into a rewarding and solid contract (not 2 years), we would not be having this conversation now.

Who-ever was the head of list management needs to be take a big look at themselves. allowing over 20 players to come out of contract at the same time is just poor list management.

 

[Nutsngum]

Think the Gold Coast ended up using it on Flanders

Flanders was 2019. Gold Coast used it on Jack Bowes. Who they then shipped off to Geelong with pick 7 as well in the greatest joke of a trade of all time.

 

[StCicatriz]

Uh no.
But it’s better than not having it.
We’re not fixing this in one year. Last few drafts/ trades have been pretty good. Need to keep going.

exactly so its going to be organic draft picks from natural ladder position that clears us from this mess. which is only going to be stunted by having an effective coach.

 

[StCicatriz]

The issue with offering stupid money is existing players get dis-gruntled when they see non-performing players who are on twice as much as they are... they then start asking their managers to look elsewhere

If we had of locked Battle into a rewarding and solid contract (not 2 years), we would not be having this conversation now.

Who-ever was the head of list management needs to be take a big look at themselves. allowing over 20 players to come out of contract at the same time is just poor list management.

i think it happened because their strategy was centered around a free agent. when that fell through its pivoted to the draft, but its meant battle has happened.

 

[stavro#4]

The issue with offering stupid money is existing players get dis-gruntled when they see non-performing players who are on twice as much as they are... they then start asking their managers to look elsewhere

If we had of locked Battle into a rewarding and solid contract (not 2 years), we would not be having this conversation now.

Who-ever was the head of list management needs to be take a big look at themselves. allowing over 20 players to come out of contract at the same time is just poor list management.

Which players have re-signed past free agency?

I honestly can’t think of one.

Every player wants their contracts expiring the year they are free agent eligible to negotiate new deals.

Battle under Ratten was nowhere near as good as Battle under Ross.

 

[Nutsngum]

The issue with offering stupid money is existing players get dis-gruntled when they see non-performing players who are on twice as much as they are... they then start asking their managers to look elsewhere

If we had of locked Battle into a rewarding and solid contract (not 2 years), we would not be having this conversation now.

Who-ever was the head of list management needs to be take a big look at themselves. allowing over 20 players to come out of contract at the same time is just poor list management.

Battle specifically signed for two years to take him to Free Agency. Unless you think giving a B grade player at the time a huge paycheque to make them sign a long deal is a good idea.

Also, why is having a bunch of contracts ending at the same time a bad thing? Please, reasons because it sounds more like youre just saying something is bad rather then rationalizing it.

 

[CaptainRisky]

The thing i love about this place is you can stay away for days and come back and its like you never left as its rinse and repeat from a few , BF is the gift that keeps giving

 

[MordySaint]

Which players have re-signed past free agency?

Are we talking just St Kilda?

I see many of the players in the bigger type clubs sign past their free agency.

The AFL needs to reward us with a decent first round pick or re-think the whole free agency thing.

 

[stavro#4]

Are we talking just St Kilda?

I see many of the players in the bigger type clubs sign past their free agency.

The AFL needs to reward us with a decent first round pick or re-think the whole free agency thing.

As far as I’m across. Majority of players sign up until their free agency eligibility year.

They likely ultimately re-sign. But they still get a temperature check for the $$$ out there.

As for your prior point about total number of players OOC. That’s a tactical decision and ultimately one I agree with. If you want big cash to throw around at free agency. You need flexibility

 

[Diehard Saint]

exactly so its going to be organic draft picks from natural ladder position that clears us from this mess. which is only going to be stunted by having an effective coach.

So if I understand it correctly, you’d prefer a sh*t coach to keep us down the bottom for longer?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Picking up rats leaving a sinking ship isn’t against the rules so we should be right to target Richmond players.

 

[Joffaboy]

So selling our best players hoping to get players better in a gamble. I’m not sure most people understand that having a competitive football side is the goal. Not getting high picks. There is still a very good chance of picks busting. Last 2 years we have drafted exceptionally for the picks available. That is how you make a jump.

The point is to get a winning grand final team.
We are competitive, Sydney, Geelong Carlton, down by 2 against Port flogged Easendon.
But that is middle of the road competitiveness not premiership winning.

So again with top 4 teams getting no.1 picks and keeping their frdp, and others getting top picks from NGA's and keeping their first round dp's, and others getting free dps for being dysfunctional, How do we get picks to go from competitive to challenging?
We also can't attract FA's.
I genuinely want to know because I see no alternative.
Soon Tassie compromises the system further.
I don't want us to just be competitive, I want us a finals team, then a top 4 team then a team capable of winning the flag.

We are barely a finals team and need to get 11 places better to be premiers.

With all those constraints above, how do we get the picks to get the elite players?

What are our realistic options?

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[stavro#4]

Mac Andrew

“I told you a few weeks ago that his next contract would be about $1 million per season. I was actually wrong. My understanding is one Victorian club has told his manager that they are prepared to offer $1.5 million per year for eight years.”

“That’s a $12 million deal. When I took it to his manager Ashley Blair from Pacific Sports Management he said, and I quote, ‘Mac will be at the Suns in 2025 and we’re working closely with them on a longer-term deal’.

“So it’s not for this year as much as it is for next year. A $12 million deal. I don’t know who the club is, but there are clubs in Victoria with a ton of money. North Melbourne and St Kilda among them.”

“Andrew, Chad Warner

1

Chad Warner

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.5

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and Andrew Brayshaw

8

Andrew Brayshaw

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.3

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.1

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

10.8

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

3.1

4star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

– they’re the big three to watch next year.”

- Tom Morris

 

[Joffaboy]

and you think one extra pick 8 is going to suddenly bridge that massive gap you're talking about?

You seem to think one first a second and a couple of dodgey NGA's is doing that?
Brisbane, the flag favourite, get a top 3 mid for crap picks and keep their first.

The flag favourite is already ahead of us re drafting position this year.

To get better we need high quality players.

We have been hitting the draft since 21 and will do so this year and next.
2021 we got Naz and we're lucky to get 2 good but not elite NGA's. Adams a bust
2022 looks like a bust except Pou. Draft night most people were saying we have drafted really well.
2023 looks really good, all look like they can make it.
So there is eight youngsters who will probably for the basis going forward.
2024, we will have two top ten.
Let me give you our last three firsts
NAZ pick 13
Pou pick 10
Wilson pick 18
Imagine what they can do with two top tens, a second and whatever else we have.

So it's not just one first rounder propelling us up the ladder, it's the drafts from the previous three years, plus 24 plus 25, before Tassie compromises it.

People tell us to look forward 5 years, but seemingly keep the same line up that has us constantly mediocre.
Unless we get elite new blood into the club we die.
Due to AFL corruption there are no alternatives to us shopping capital.


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[Joffaboy]

Geez we butchered those picks

All four are still playing in senior AFL games

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[StCicatriz]

So if I understand it correctly, you’d prefer a sh*t coach to keep us down the bottom for longer?

i'm stating if our aims is to collect high end draft picks because we think the list is no good to be challenging for a flag then we are better off getting a shit coach not one thats going to extract everything out of the list

i dont agree with the aim BTW i dont think the high end picks matter as much as others do. i don't think we can compete in that space and certainly not with the current coach

 

[StCicatriz]

You seem to think one first a second and a couple of dodgey NGA's is doing that?
Brisbane, the flag favourite, get a top 3 mid for crap picks and keep their first.

The flag favourite is already ahead of us re drafting position this year.

To get better we need high quality players.

We have been hitting the draft since 21 and will do so this year and next.
2021 we got Naz and we're lucky to get 2 good but not elite NGA's. Adams a bust
2022 looks like a bust except Pou. Draft night most people were saying we have drafted really well.
2023 looks really good, all look like they can make it.
So there is eight youngsters who will probably for the basis going forward.
2024, we will have two top ten.
Let me give you our last three firsts
NAZ pick 13
Pou pick 10
Wilson pick 18
Imagine what they can do with two top tens, a second and whatever else we have.

So it's not just one first rounder propelling us up the ladder, it's the drafts from the previous three years, plus 24 plus 25, before Tassie compromises it.

People tell us to look forward 5 years, but seemingly keep the same line up that has us constantly mediocre.
Unless we get elite new blood into the club we die.
Due to AFL corruption there are no alternatives to us shopping capital.


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i think retaining the best pieces of your list whilst using the "one first a second and a couple of dodgey NGA's" is the way forward yes

i don't think one extra round 1 pick is going to do anything. i do think we run the risk of losing more players if we are non-competitive through shedding parts of the teams spine or engine room.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Flanders was 2019. Gold Coast used it on Jack Bowes. Who they then shipped off to Geelong with pick 7 as well in the greatest joke of a trade of all time.

Man everyone lost in that deal.

We got: Battle (left the club), Long (left the club), Clark (underperforming for a top 10 pick)

Hawthorn got : Omera (left the club)

Gold Coast got: Jack Bowes (left the club in what was probably the worst trade of the history of the club, if not the 21st century.)

Interestingly enough, West Coast were the real winners of this trade, as they eventually got Hawthorn's 2017 second round pick from Gold Coast. This became Liam Ryan.

 

[bergholt]

That’s what you’re paying them to find out. There’s an awful lot of public money going into this “ Private organisation” lots of people hate the afl and would love to bring them down.

I guess a level playing field is too much to ask for.

I want it as much as you do but until every club has exactly the same number of supporters with exactly the same financial capacity, we're not going to have a level playing field.

 

[Saintpav]

Again, Norf.

They’re like a bad smell. Always hanging around

 

[bergholt]

Line of attack is request equality for marquee games and our horrible deal at docklands despite paying that off for the afl by putting 800,000 more fans through than any other club.

It's a commercial deal we agreed to, unless there's a contractual violation (which is unlikely since the AFL is run by lawyers) then there's just nothing there.

If those private conversations don’t go well then go optics in the media. Show the ever growing inconsistencies in the AFL’s approach to equalisation vs profit and how that is a never ending cycle that reinforces biased for big clubs. In other words, you have to embarrass the hell out of them if they don’t play nicely in private.

The media never support little clubs against big ones or the AFL, they know which side their bread's buttered on. Look at what happened when Bassat came out and complained about the academies. The general line from the media was "yeah whatever but you guys are shit so deal with it".

It's a two-bit operation rigged in favour of big clubs, always will be unfortunately.