List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[PandaG]

Might be worth a few people having a bit of a look at our results with Clark in the team vs him without.

Or our clearances when he attends a stoppage vs when he doesn't

Or our score for vs against when he is on the ground vs not.

With a cap on the number of rotations and a largely super fit side, Clark having lower time on ground and being used as a high impact player is completely fine.

The way he is being asked to play- intense bursts of repeat contest work at the coalface- is as responsible for his TOG% as any perceived lack of fitness.

People used to say he was too weak, now he isn't fit enough. Neither are accurate.

100% agree with this
Massively underrated by our supporter base
He is brilliant in close with his hands and surge game.

Looks like he has put in size and weight this year ready for a big off season

 

[PandaG]

We have lost Ross, probably Crouch, and Hotton. looks dodgey.
If we got McRae and Pealting we would not be getting another four mids.

Your guess on Clark is completely off. Lyon likes Clsrk as he is tough, hard at it, a point of difference and a great kick on both feet.

We run out games better than any other team in the league. The ToG is such a ridiculous furphy.
The moment Clark was fit, Lyon selected him.
Rewatching the Geelong and Carlton match last week, Clark was so instrument in close.
If anyone is in danger it is Dow not Clark.

A fit Clark is an automatic inclusion.


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Yes x 1000000 + 500%

 

[Sarcoidevo]

We’ve offered peatling a four year deal

 

[Linton Street Saint]

It truly is silly season, means as much as Houston's 100% commitment to Port Adelaide, he has promised everyone he is playing there next year.

Trac is also now 100% committed to Melbourne.

I have less than zero faith in anything said by players at this stage especially those who have teams still in finals.

 

[Miha]

It truly silly season, means as much as Houston's 100% commitment to Port Adelaide, he has promised everyone he is playing there next year.

Trac is also now 100% committed to Melbourne.

I have less than zero faith in anything said by players at this stage especially those who have teams still in finals.

Negotiation tactics

 

[austinnn]

I loved Paddy - don’t get me wrong. We all did.
But in the end I think having him just gave us a false sense of where we were at.

That is very true. I loved it at the time but I'd say most of our wins in 2020 were basically down to outstanding individual performances or mitigating circumstances (not the least being the COVID season) and we got found out the following year. Yes, injuries played a big part and yes, it was good to make finals again after a long absence, but our list management heads weren't good enough to see it for what it was.

The last 20 years have been brutal, but there have been some absolutely amazing moments within. If they'd all happened in the same season we might have even doubled our premiership tally by now!

Onward and upward.

 

[stavro#4]

That is very true. I loved it at the time but I'd say most of our wins in 2020 were basically down to outstanding individual performances or mitigating circumstances (not the least being the COVID season) and we got found out the following year. Yes, injuries played a big part and yes, it was good to make finals again after a long absence, but our list management heads weren't good enough to see it for what it was.

The last 20 years have been brutal, but there have been some absolutely amazing moments within. If they'd all happened in the same season we might have even doubled our premiership tally by now!

Onward and upward.

Yes to the first part.

But the issue with that season wasn’t Ryder. The issue with that season is also why we feel like we screwed up the 2017 draft.

We had career years from the following:
Ben Long
Nick Coffield
Hunter Clark
Ben Paton
Dan Butler
Dougal Howard.

You could argue it was also Steele’s best season.

The first 4 mentioned should all be integral to our success today.

Long couldn’t keep away from suspension and poor form. The next 3 were hit with the injury wand and forever cursed.

Coffield for example, in his third season - 21 years old and 5th in a semi final sides BnF.

People talk at length at how we ****ed that draft up. But at the end of 2020 - it looked like we had hit a home run from the 2017 draft. Clark was looking like Pendlebury. Coffield like Hodge and Paton was looking like an elite small back.

A real sliding door moment for us. Throw in Steele looking like a superstar of the comp aswell and it was sky’s the limit.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

People advocating for trading out draft picks for guys 27 or older need to keep in mind that we're about to enter another extended period of compromised drafts - there will probably be another team added to the comp after Tassie. Our last contending side collapsed right as the draft was being raided by expansion teams so we need to learn from that and grab as much young talent as possible while we can. Get the best mids available with our top 10 picks and fill in any identified gaps with players who cost no meaningful draft capital - I don't mind getting a Macrae or Parker to boost the midfield for a couple of years or Tomlinson to step into Battle's role until Arie is ready. Soldo or Ladhams would be fine too. But our first and second round picks must be off the table.

 

[jwint43]

Might be worth a few people having a bit of a look at our results with Clark in the team vs him without.

Or our clearances when he attends a stoppage vs when he doesn't

Or our score for vs against when he is on the ground vs not.

With a cap on the number of rotations and a largely super fit side, Clark having lower time on ground and being used as a high impact player is completely fine.

The way he is being asked to play- intense bursts of repeat contest work at the coalface- is as responsible for his TOG% as any perceived lack of fitness.

People used to say he was too weak, now he isn't fit enough. Neither are accurate.

Our season and midfield turned when he was fit. A full season from him without injury will be huge next year.

 

[jwint43]

Yes to the first part.

But the issue with that season wasn’t Ryder. The issue with that season is also why we feel like we screwed up the 2017 draft.

We had career years from the following:
Ben Long
Nick Coffield
Hunter Clark
Ben Paton
Dan Butler
Dougal Howard.

You could argue it was also Steele’s best season.

The first 4 mentioned should all be integral to our success today.

Long couldn’t keep away from suspension and poor form. The next 3 were hit with the injury wand and forever cursed.

Coffield for example, in his third season - 21 years old and 5th in a semi final sides BnF.

People talk at length at how we ****ed that draft up. But at the end of 2020 - it looked like we had hit a home run from the 2017 draft. Clark was looking like Pendlebury. Coffield like Hodge and Paton was looking like an elite small back.

A real sliding door moment for us. Throw in Steele looking like a superstar of the comp aswell and it was sky’s the limit.

100% agree. It's easy to say that Coffield and Clark were busts, but to me a bust is someone who genuinely just could not play, as opposed to clearly talented players who were struck down by unfortunate injuries. Coff was tracking so well before he lost 3 years of crucial development and confidence. And if you go back and watch the 2020 final you will notice just how composed and silky smooth Clark was, he was also tracking well before he got his face smashed in. Hopefully at least Clark will provide us with strong midfield play for the next 6-7 years, but I don't think it's fair to blame the recruiters for this. It's not like we drafted Jimmy Toumpas and Jono O'Rourke.

 

[Grav]

Fischer McAsey

Speaking of which, see he made a comeback to AFL during the year at St Kilda City.
If he has got his passion back, might be worth looking at him in next years mid season draft.

 

[Fehring]

First paragraph is a perfect encapsulation of what neoliberalism has done to journalism. I mean, I want to bag a journalist who who can't write very well, but the poor guy probably got paid $20 to write this article.

"In-demand GWS utility James Peatling has squandered all talks of a move away from the Giants, expressing his desire to resign with the club."

Anyway, hope he's wrong. Peatling is attending centre bounces for GWS in a final so he must go alright.

 

[hayes]

FFS you revisionists, he gave Marshall a chop.out while he was still learning to ruck.

Some are you people are literally clueless.

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Yeah not being in the ruck definitely helps you learn how to ruck. Thanks mr internet tough guy.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeah not being in the ruck definitely helps you learn how to ruck. Thanks mr internet tough guy.

Paddy spent hours working on Marshalls ruck craft at training.

The amount of times I went down there and those 2 would be off on their own with someone throwing a ball to them and they would jostle for the hit out. Then Ryder would teach and Marshall would try a few on his own.

Rinse & Repeat a million times.

 

[hayes]

Paddy spent hours working on Marshalls ruck craft at training.

The amount of times I went down there and those 2 would be off on their own with someone throwing a ball to them and they would jostle for the hit out. Then Ryder would teach and Marshall would try a few on his own.

Rinse & Repeat a million times.

I’m sure it helped but it’s not like ruck work is a strength of Marshall’s. It’s all the other stuff he’s great at.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Sauce?

Josh gabelich

 

[pebblesofsand]

Paddy spent hours working on Marshalls ruck craft at training.

The amount of times I went down there and those 2 would be off on their own with someone throwing a ball to them and they would jostle for the hit out. Then Ryder would teach and Marshall would try a few on his own.

Rinse & Repeat a million times.

Things have changed since Paddy was with us.

Paddy relied on his spring and I reckon he would find it much more difficult these days. Seeing both ruckmen line up a metre apart either side of the centre line and start wrestling as soon as the ump moves to bounce the ball really s***s me.

Marshall has always struggled against the more bigger more physical ruckmen and the changes to ruck contests has made it even harder for him.

Turn off the tap: The small tweak changing ruckwork

Riley Beveridge has assessed the impact of the change in interpretation for ruck contests

www.afl.com.au

 

[Banger9798]

100% agree with this
Massively underrated by our supporter base
He is brilliant in close with his hands and surge game.

Looks like he has put in size and weight this year ready for a big off season

Clark had a rebuilding year in 2024, his best footy still ahead of him if he has a bit of well deserved luck with injury.
Get around the young man, he's as brave as any out there.

 

[BigMonty]

On Houston trade, I see it as a win either way. Pick 8 that is all.
If someone said lets trade Battle for 2 xAA Houston, you would grab it and run.

Some have wanted NWM to move into the midfield well this allows it to happen. If we miss on Houston 7 and 8 in the draft is fine as well.

Macrae, gees he wants out has 3 years left on what has to be a big contract is not being played in the midfield which is his only position...I can see why he wants to leave and dogs have a emerging salary cap issue between his performance and money expended.

Part of me says this is no different to Bowes and Geelong. You want him gone to give you SC relief throw in pick 44 on 2ndfrdp.

Use that on Peatling with something extra I reckon we get from Membrey leaving.

Hey presto new Midfield with
Macrae
Peatling
NWM
Pick 7 developing
Pick 24 Developing

Houston whilst not a like for like replacement for Battle is a great pick up.

We are in the box seat for seeing all machinations of trades as 7 and 8 are strategically valuable in this trade and draft period

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

Things have changed since Paddy was with us.

Paddy relied on his spring and I reckon he would find it much more difficult these days. Seeing both ruckmen line up a metre apart either side of the centre line and start wrestling as soon as the ump moves to bounce the ball really s***s me.

Marshall has always struggled against the more bigger more physical ruckmen and the changes to ruck contests has made it even harder for him.

Turn off the tap: The small tweak changing ruckwork

Riley Beveridge has assessed the impact of the change in interpretation for ruck contests

www.afl.com.au

I don’t deny things have changed.

But in that moment in time. Paddy’s value transcended what we saw onfield.

What Marshall is today is partly due to Ryders tutelage. I’d argue the current coaching staff also have played a major role. Not technically developing by Rowan. But around helping him improve physically and teaching him about how he can impact.

Honestly, I think bringing in Soldo would be a small coup. Imagine the impact letting Marshall wonder around the ground as a half forward for instances.

 

[stavro#4]

On Houston trade, I see it as a win either way. Pick 8 that is all.
If someone said lets trade Battle for 2 xAA Houston, you would grab it and run.

Some have wanted NWM to move into the midfield well this allows it to happen. If we miss on Houston 7 and 8 in the draft is fine as well.

Macrae, gees he wants out has 3 years left on what has to be a big contract is not being played in the midfield which is his only position...I can see why he wants to leave and dogs have a emerging salary cap issue between his performance and money expended.

Part of me says this is no different to Bowes and Geelong. You want him gone to give you SC relief throw in pick 44 on 2ndfrdp.

Use that on Peatling with something extra I reckon we get from Membrey leaving.

Hey presto new Midfield with
Macrae
Peatling
NWM
Pick 7 developing
Pick 24 Developing

Houston whilst not a like for like replacement for Battle is a great pick up.

We are in the box seat for seeing all machinations of trades as 7 and 8 are strategically valuable in this trade and draft period

On SM-S916B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Flipside.

You can’t just say - NWM or Sinclair will move into the midfield.

It’s an entirely different ball game that as seen with Sinclair. Becomes hard to translate your impact from half back into a genuine bonafide midfielder.

I’m sure they have a plan with how they would use Houston.

But Port fans themselves will tell you he has had the same issues as Sinclair when moving directly on ball aswell.

I don’t think this is the move we should be making.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I don’t deny things have changed.

But in that moment in time. Paddy’s value transcended what we saw onfield.

What Marshall is today is partly due to Ryders tutelage. I’d argue the current coaching staff also have played a major role. Not technically developing by Rowan. But around helping him improve physically and teaching him about how he can impact.

Honestly, I think bringing in Soldo would be a small coup. Imagine the impact letting Marshall wonder around the ground as a half forward for instances.

Yeah agree with all that. Given we've chased a genuine ruckman (who wouldn't have been picked up to play at Sandy) every year for the last 3 or 4 trade periods, clearly they think they can utilise Marshall in a different way.

 

[beside the seaside]

At this stage you have to say Hill has been a great acquisition. Performed consistently well for us. You could argue we cooked the negotiations and overpaid but fact is he just signed a three year extension, he's a leader and consistent performer on field. Would take him again every day of the week

 

[Teflon]

I like McCrae for a low pick
But I am surprised we haven’t been linked to Parker at all and he looks destined for North???
Can play mid , kicks goals, strong ….lifted Swans in recent games ….
Anyway seems odd

 

[Teflon]

People advocating for trading out draft picks for guys 27 or older need to keep in mind that we're about to enter another extended period of compromised drafts - there will probably be another team added to the comp after Tassie. Our last contending side collapsed right as the draft was being raided by expansion teams so we need to learn from that and grab as much young talent as possible while we can. Get the best mids available with our top 10 picks and fill in any identified gaps with players who cost no meaningful draft capital - I don't mind getting a Macrae or Parker to boost the midfield for a couple of years or Tomlinson to step into Battle's role until Arie is ready. Soldo or Ladhams would be fine too. But our first and second round picks must be off the table.

Tend to agree - especially when you look through our better kids at moment…jury still out on many of them and certainly IF they can get to elite category we badly need eg

NAS - elite abilities
Wilson - potential elite
Windhager - good player (could be Seb Ross level who knows)
Owens - I’m resigned to the fact he’ll be good not elite
Garcia - unknown
Arie - unknown
Hastie - unknown
Rest?

Point is : have e got enough certainty to say we could afford to trade in a Houston and lose a top 10 pick in a strong mid draft ?
I don’t see it.