List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[gringo2011]

100% agree. It's easy to say that Coffield and Clark were busts, but to me a bust is someone who genuinely just could not play, as opposed to clearly talented players who were struck down by unfortunate injuries. Coff was tracking so well before he lost 3 years of crucial development and confidence. And if you go back and watch the 2020 final you will notice just how composed and silky smooth Clark was, he was also tracking well before he got his face smashed in. Hopefully at least Clark will provide us with strong midfield play for the next 6-7 years, but I don't think it's fair to blame the recruiters for this. It's not like we drafted Jimmy Toumpas and Jono O'Rourke.

There is some truth in this but a lot of the issues with Clark are self inflicted. We tried to off load him because his lifestyle wasn't that professional and his dedication to improvement has been limited.

A lot of the stuff you see in footballers who don't make it isn't a lack of talent. To get picked at the front end of the draft you've been in elite talent pathways for years. The psychometrics and interviews hopefully weed out the guys who are not dedicated or half in.

 

[falkstar]

Let’s just hope it isn’t because we won’t get band 1 compo!

Clearly you really haven't a clue what has transpired. May be that, may be reasons our end like Port demanding two frdps this year for him.
He is contracted for 3 years, if he wants out Port have the upper hand, he can't demand to go where he wants.

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[gringo2011]

At this stage you have to say Hill has been a great acquisition. Performed consistently well for us. You could argue we cooked the negotiations and overpaid but fact is he just signed a three year extension, he's a leader and consistent performer on field. Would take him again every day of the week

This is the thing. I have no issues with Hill the player. He's been great for us since Lyon came back but it was just the wrong time to go and top up a list that had a very small youth pool. Everything was based around a group of King, Coff and Clark. That has proven to be a misstep and everyone involved has been moved on.

We are doing the reverse list build and you can argue that it stopped us crashing to the bottom of the ladder but it made what should have been a short sharp list build into a 5 year longer exercise. We have done an incredible job since we got rid of Lethers and Gags and really set ourselves up for a better brighter future by doing bulk drafting.

You can't say how we would have gone doing the list build 5 years ago but you see the benefits in it with guys like Phillipou, Nas, Wilson and Garcia coming through now. My only disappointment now is that we sacked the recruiter who has done the bulk of the work.

 

[Joffaboy]

There is some truth in this but a lot of the issues with Clark are self inflicted. We tried to off load him because his lifestyle wasn't that professional and his dedication to improvement has been limited.

A lot of the stuff you see in footballers who don't make it isn't a lack of talent. To get picked at the front end of the draft you've been in elite talent pathways for years. The psychometrics and interviews hopefully weed out the guys who are not dedicated or half in.

This is true, he was not as dedicated as he should have been. He is one that has bought into the Lyon mantra.

I watched him closely the first preseason, he had lost a lot of weight, played 19 games, the most he had played in a season for the club and was looking for another big preseason for 24.
This was disrupted by a soft tissue injury then a collarbone which severely disrupted his season.
Only played 11 games, 8 of which were in a row at the end of the season. His last four games were his best.
He needs another big uninterrupted preseason in my view and next year he will be a valuable inside mid.

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[gringo2011]

Tend to agree - especially when you look through our better kids at moment…jury still out on many of them and certainly IF they can get to elite category we badly need eg

NAS - elite abilities
Wilson - potential elite
Windhager - good player (could be Seb Ross level who knows)
Owens - I’m resigned to the fact he’ll be good not elite
Garcia - unknown
Arie - unknown
Hastie - unknown
Rest?

Point is : have e got enough certainty to say we could afford to trade in a Houston and lose a top 10 pick in a strong mid draft ?
I don’t see it.

Left out Phillipou, Henry and even King who is still on the younger side. All of those guys have potential to go up to a very high level. Collard is a first round pick too. They must have a bit of faith in him coming good to extend him too.

Even kids like Keeler and Hotton have some potential and O'Connell and McLennan are rated by the club by the sounds of it.

The trick is balancing youth with experience. You don't want too many kids at once or you can get uncompetitive and inconsistent quickly. You probably want to have about 3 or 4 under 50 gamers that are high potential, a similar amount of guys between a 50 and 100 games and then a bulk of your list in that 100 to 150 games and then group of 5 or so around 200 games or something for a nice mix of youth and experience. That gives you a good chance of competing in a bulk of games I imagine.

 

[L_W_P]

And if we didn't trade pick 6?

I thought we were just talking about Hill?

Are we working on the hindsight assumption that we don't grab Ryder and Doogs either?

In that case we clearly needed a KPD so we draft the highly rated local in Fisher McAsey.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Left out Phillipou, Henry and even King who is still on the younger side. All of those guys have potential to go up to a very high level. Collard is a first round pick too. They must have a bit of faith in him coming good to extend him too.

Even kids like Keeler and Hotton have some potential and O'Connell and McLennan are rated by the club by the sounds of it.

The trick is balancing youth with experience. You don't want too many kids at once or you can get uncompetitive and inconsistent quickly. You probably want to have about 3 or 4 under 50 gamers that are high potential, a similar amount of guys between a 50 and 100 games and then a bulk of your list in that 100 to 150 games and then group of 5 or so around 200 games or something for a nice mix of youth and experience. That gives you a good chance of competing in a bulk of games I imagine.

I think they sometimes extend guys like Collard to take the pressure off and let him focus on what he needs to do.
Not everyone would respond the best when knowing they are out of contract at the end of next year.

 

[Train12]

If true about Houston,

I think this is the best case - take our picks to the draft, keep adding to this young group.
Tassie is coming in soon.
End of next year - let’s aim for 1-2 free agents - I think this only happens if we have a half decent year next year.

 

[Captain Paddy]

How he succeeds at AFL Level (look at his numbers) therefore remains a mystery...

Not really - clearly is talented but just doesn't have the drive to be great.

Comes in half fit, can only play half TOG and only gets half good stats.

He's halfway through his career
He's halfway to being a good player
But never will be because he's half assed

 

[Dr Spaceman]

 

[The_Steadier]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

 

[gringo2011]

Unsurprising

A fantastic player but just not what our squad needs right now. Doesn't solve a positional need, and doesn't solve a need in our age demographic. Not exactly a leader either it seems. Would just be a short-term sugar hit that would force the coaches to reshuffle what is our most stable line in defence. Glad we are not making the same mistake as we have in the years gone by

Back in Nas and Sincs to continue to lead the offensive drive off half back with Hastie and Arie set to slot in as well long-term

I'm not fussed either way. We have struggled to get elite level players into the club. Part of me thinks that you jump while he's available but then we might improve next year and make ourselves an attractive environment and have our choice of guns.

 

[gringo2011]

I thought we were just talking about Hill?

Are we working on the hindsight assumption that we don't grab Ryder and Doogs either?

In that case we clearly needed a KPD so we draft the highly rated local in Fisher McAsey.

I was talking about not topping up full stop. I think we were arse about topping before we'd done any of the foundation work.

 

[Sully111]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

Yes to LDU

Not sure about Brayshaw. Possibly.

 

[Minga]

We’ve offered peatling a four year deal

According to Cal Twomey we have pulled out of the Houston race.

 

[Captain Paddy]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

I reckon we just try and draft the mids.

If we need to throw a future second or something with 8 on draft night to move up and get the mid we want, just do it.

Mids is our biggest weak spot, we can't rely on F/A coming here and if we do get them it means we're overpaying chronically.

Just draft the mids.

 

[Spider Eater]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

I'd do P7 and a future 1st for LDU and P22.

 

[L_W_P]

I was talking about not topping up full stop. I think we were arse about topping before we'd done any of the foundation work.

The board had the right idea, just botched the execution.

If you can get into the top 6-8 teams year on year on year then your odds of grabbing better trades and FA options increases.

We are always going to struggle against the Pies/Blues/Tigers/Dons when it comes to attracting talent so we need to be like Geelong and Hawthorn - Be the professionally run team, always in finals contention, with a top shelf development program and training standards.

Ross Lyon's been brought in specifically to build this culture with the new generation.

 

[gringo2011]

So there seemed to be a decent amount of support on here for houston if he cost pick 8.

Question for the folks who were ok with houston for 8:

Do you think it would be equally acceptable if we could get a gun like LDU or brayshaw if they cost say:
Pick 8 + our future first, with a 2024 2nd (or 3rd) rounder coming back to us?

Brayshaw and LDU both:
*years younger than houston
* gun elite players who play positions we are desperate for.

Surely they are worth that extra cost over houston- especially if we back ourselves in to play finals next year and like our chances of a good player in rnd 2 + 3 in supposedly a deep draft this year?

I reckon LDU is ideal and would definitely chase him. Maybe 8 and a future first with a future second back. Brayshaw is a very good but not elite level player. Would leave him.

 

[SteeleSaints]

This is true, he was not as dedicated as he should have been. He is one that has bought into the Lyon mantra.

I watched him closely the first preseason, he had lost a lot of weight, played 19 games, the most he had played in a season for the club and was looking for another big preseason for 24.
This was disrupted by a soft tissue injury then a collarbone which severely disrupted his season.
Only played 11 games, 8 of which were in a row at the end of the season. His last four games were his best.
He needs another big uninterrupted preseason in my view and next year he will be a valuable inside mid.

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I hope you are right Joff, if Hunter could become our Joel Selwood it would be fantastic. But the reality is with his injury history and lack of development unfortunately the odds are against him. I can understand your love and defending him, so hopefully at some stage he rewards your loyalty and faith.

 

[The Punter]

The board had the right idea, just botched the execution.

If you can get into the top 6-8 teams year on year on year then your odds of grabbing better trades and FA options increases.

We are always going to struggle against the Pies/Blues/Tigers/Dons when it comes to attracting talent so we need to be like Geelong and Hawthorn - Be the professionally run team, always in finals contention, with a top shelf development program and training standards.

Ross Lyon's been brought in specifically to build this culture with the new generation.

Geelong and Hawthorn both receive significant taxpayer funding. Our comp is much more the Doggies, only we don't represent an entire side of the city so we aren't indispensable. Melbourne the original club named after the city. North bailed out by the league. Just leaves us on our own.

 

[gringo2011]

The board had the right idea, just botched the execution.

If you can get into the top 6-8 teams year on year on year then your odds of grabbing better trades and FA options increases.

We are always going to struggle against the Pies/Blues/Tigers/Dons when it comes to attracting talent so we need to be like Geelong and Hawthorn - Be the professionally run team, always in finals contention, with a top shelf development program and training standards.

Ross Lyon's been brought in specifically to build this culture with the new generation.

I think that we should have just admitted that the rebuild had stuffed up and kept drafting hard. Getting guys like Hanners and Hill was about looking like we could attract players over making an environment than attracted good players first.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Not really - clearly is talented but just doesn't have the drive to be great.

Comes in half fit, can only play half TOG and only gets half good stats.

He's halfway through his career
He's halfway to being a good player
But never will be because he's half assed

We've discussed the TOG furphy a few times now.

Not too mention why Hunts has had his progress stymied.

It has nothing to do with his arse... and a lot to do with his head being smashed every which way multiple times.

 

[The Punter]

We've discussed the TOG furphy a few times now.

Not too mention why Hunts has had his progress stymied.

It has nothing to do with his arse... and a lot to do with his head being smashed every which way multiple times.

Hard for this to happen in a footy game if aforementioned head isn't over the football.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

WOW according to SEN Peatling has resigned from GWS.

Seriously , its a mistake people make here, but i suspect the journo's at SEN are getting paid for their incompetence.