List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[Teflon]

At this stage you have to say Hill has been a great acquisition. Performed consistently well for us. You could argue we cooked the negotiations and overpaid but fact is he just signed a three year extension, he's a leader and consistent performer on field. Would take him again every day of the week

We over paid
Question is : did e need him given where we were at time list wise? I’m not sure
He’s the icing on the cake for me and our cake is still in the oven ….

 

[Sippa]

Yes to the first part.

But the issue with that season wasn’t Ryder. The issue with that season is also why we feel like we screwed up the 2017 draft.

We had career years from the following:
Ben Long
Nick Coffield
Hunter Clark
Ben Paton
Dan Butler
Dougal Howard.

You could argue it was also Steele’s best season.

The first 4 mentioned should all be integral to our success today.

Long couldn’t keep away from suspension and poor form. The next 3 were hit with the injury wand and forever cursed.

Coffield for example, in his third season - 21 years old and 5th in a semi final sides BnF.

People talk at length at how we ****ed that draft up. But at the end of 2020 - it looked like we had hit a home run from the 2017 draft. Clark was looking like Pendlebury. Coffield like Hodge and Paton was looking like an elite small back.

A real sliding door moment for us. Throw in Steele looking like a superstar of the comp aswell and it was sky’s the limit.

This hurts to read .. its true

Coffield in particular was intercepting everything and finished top 5 bnf in his 3rd year I think so many people don’t realise that

I remember Clark in the past quarter of that final against the dogs going beast mode and just thinking this guys special , he was so composed .. I think if you look at his games over all his career , when he plays 10 or more games in a row he starts building consistent games of 20 or more disposals .. his finish to 2019 and his starts to all of 21, 22 and 23 and then his finish to 24… actually has some really good form lines when he gets a consistent run of games

Howard’s the one at the time I thought was destined to be an AA full back , I don’t really know what happened for him to turn into a bit of a panicky mess but hopefully he can get it back

And again my memories of that year was Paton being one of the best shut down small defenders in the comp .. before roughy broke his leg he was set

It’s interesting looking back on that year .. we succeeded because the guys you mentioned and others elevated and had career best years

If next year the likes of king , Higgins , Phillipou, Owens , windy , Sharman , Wilson , Clark could improve and have their best years that could be the difference just like 2020

 

[The Punter]

This year was pretty unusual and hard to get much out of the stats. Nearly every mid on the list went down and we were locking the game up to try minimise damage.

2023 we were bottom six for both clearances won and clearances conceded. Two years is a trend: Ross wants us playing a low stoppage game.

 

[phantom13]

I like McCrae for a low pick
But I am surprised we haven’t been linked to Parker at all and he looks destined for North???
Can play mid , kicks goals, strong ….lifted Swans in recent games ….
Anyway seems odd

I think the assumption is Parker will stay put now, hes playing a very important role in a team that looks Grand Final if not flag bound.

You wouldnt wanna overlook Macrae for Parker to not move.

Also i lay into Brad Hill more than just about anyone but people armchairing that we shouldnt have got him have lost the plot. Leadership and standards are critical to a footy club and between him and Mase i reckon theres a HUGE percentage of our improvement that should be credited to them.

 

[gringo2011]

No assumptions, fact. NAZ and Collard has stayed with him, and Henry played with him at Freo. Paddy is his cousin and was an influence in him playing for us.
Hill has proven time and again how valuable to us he has been both on and off the field.
The constant attempt to devalue him is pretty poor and distasteful in my view.
Accept the L and move on.

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I don’t devalue him, he is a good player. Don’t think he’s the Dalai Lama though.

 

[gringo2011]

2023 we were bottom six for both clearances won and clearances conceded. Two years is a trend: Ross wants us playing a low stoppage game.

For sure, it’s not how our list is built but I think that the stats for 2024 are not indicative of how he might change things up. We played a harm minimisation game for a lot of the year.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Flipside.

You can’t just say - NWM or Sinclair will move into the midfield.

It’s an entirely different ball game that as seen with Sinclair. Becomes hard to translate your impact from half back into a genuine bonafide midfielder.

I’m sure they have a plan with how they would use Houston.

But Port fans themselves will tell you he has had the same issues as Sinclair when moving directly on ball aswell.

I don’t think this is the move we should be making.

I’d argue that the issue wasn’t Sincas being on the ball, it was the absence of Crouch or a high quality inside mid that could get Jack the ball.

When the ball is in motion Sincas showed he was as good as any mid in making great decisions in our favour.

He’s just not the type to win it out of a stoppage & burst away.

I’m firmly in team ‘go to the draft’ but if we did snag Houston the only issue is finding someone other than the skipper to get the ball to our transition midfielders.

Maybe thats Mccrae… Maybe its Peatling.

I’m a bit disappointed that its seems like Parker to Norf is a lock… he suits us much better than Mccrae IMO.


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[luca77]

For sure, it’s not how our list is built but I think that the stats for 2024 are not indicative of how he might change things up. We played a harm minimisation game for a lot of the year.

It's called defence, and we did it very well. When we had the ball we moved it successfully with control and uncontested marks. This makes the last kick inside 50 tougher which we saw.

As Punter said, we were avoiding stoppages, which are our weakness. "Locking the ball up to avoid damage" makes good defence sound like a negative. Our main issue was having to avoid stoppage, and missing out on the great attacking opportunities that come from stoppage wins. And butchering too many of the opportunities that we did get with poor decisions and skills in the forward half.

 

[stavro#4]

I’d argue that the issue wasn’t Sincas being on the ball, it was the absence of Crouch or a high quality inside mid that could get Jack the ball.

When the ball is in motion Sincas showed he was as good as any mid in making great decisions in our favour.

He’s just not the type to win it out of a stoppage & burst away.

I’m firmly in team ‘go to the draft’ but if we did snag Houston the only issue is finding someone other than the skipper to get the ball to our transition midfielders.

Maybe thats Mccrae… Maybe its Peatling.

I’m a bit disappointed that its seems like Parker to Norf is a lock… he suits us much better than Mccrae IMO.


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And what if we land Houston and we can’t resolve that ball winning midfield role?

Macrae and Crouch are both ball pigs. But the way they go about it is different. Even Parker at this age isn’t a pure midfielder anymore.

I’d rather fix the problem at hand first and do this step by step as opposed to bringing in the next step where we have a limited shelf life with us and the clock starts ticking at the expense of pick 8.

By that’s just how I feel and my opinion.

I’d rather look at acquiring west coasts pick 3 if we feel there is a player there that fits the midfield need that we can’t get at 7 as we feel like there is maybe a difference in talent within the top 7-8 picks.

Now, hypothetically. If Port would accept say pick 12 for Houston and we could land pick 3 and a pick around 12 for our 7+8.

I’d have more of an interest.

 

[saintron]

so who are saints looking at the present moment name them thanks

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Everyone discussing Houston, he's a contracted in his prime gun AA for a team smack in the middle of contending. If by some miracle we can get him to nominate us Port will demand more then pick 8. Likely picks 7 and 8. Given the fact we can never get anyone to take the huge amount of money we throw around we will be forced to pay up ala Gold Coast and Weller etc.

Fortunately, he wont pick us. We will be saved from ourselves by how unattractive we seem to be. Cant believe after the clearly stated need to fix the midfield and plan to hit the draft and build organically we are deviating already, for a half back flanker of all things. Don't know whats more depressing, the fact we cant ever seem to build properly and seem to be hell bent on never having a good midfield ever again or the fact we cant get anyone to choose us despite throwing life changing money around. I cant understand with fantastic facilities, smack in the middle of bayside we are still viewed the same as when we were in bloody Seaford. Ugh.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

And what if we land Houston and we can’t resolve that ball winning midfield role?

Macrae and Crouch are both ball pigs. But the way they go about it is different. Even Parker at this age isn’t a pure midfielder anymore.

I’d rather fix the problem at hand first and do this step by step as opposed to bringing in the next step where we have a limited shelf life with us and the clock starts ticking at the expense of pick 8.

By that’s just how I feel and my opinion.

I’d rather look at acquiring west coasts pick 3 if we feel there is a player there that fits the midfield need that we can’t get at 7 as we feel like there is maybe a difference in talent within the top 7-8 picks.

Now, hypothetically. If Port would accept say pick 12 for Houston and we could land pick 3 and a pick around 12 for our 7+8.

I’d have more of an interest.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. Sincs is fine in the midfield rotation (he got moved back because we lost so much drive off half back). Houston would alleviate that but our issues at stoppages would remain.

I suppose our game plan would be concede the clearance & our backline rebounding strength continues to move the ball forward better than most other teams. The issue we had for a fair bit of this year was the quality of the clearances that we allowed the opposition... especially against fleet of foot midfields we got sliced and diced.

Maybe Windy makes a difference... an older, bigger & stronger Scud... Hugo continuing to develop.

I still say...

Go to the draft.

 

[The_Steadier]

Our main issue was having to avoid stoppage, and missing out on the great attacking opportunities that come from stoppage wins

Not to mention that being crap at stoppages to the point where you avoid them- is not exactly a recipe for winning tight, pressure cooker, (usually) low scoring finals.

We need to take some proper list management risks to get away from this bandaid fix asap.

For example- if there is an opportunity to nab an LDU or brayshaw as a pre-agent.. we should do it- even if it costs 2 firsts with a 2nd back or similar.

 

[Leap of Faith]

To

Everyone discussing Houston, he's a contracted in his prime gun AA for a team smack in the middle of contending. If by some miracle we can get him to nominate us Port will demand more then pick 8. Likely picks 7 and 8. Given the fact we can never get anyone to take the huge amount of money we throw around we will be forced to pay up ala Gold Coast and Weller etc.

Fortunately, he wont pick us. We will be saved from ourselves by how unattractive we seem to be. Cant believe after the clearly stated need to fix the midfield and plan to hit the draft and build organically we are deviating already, for a half back flanker of all things. Don't know whats more depressing, the fact we cant ever seem to build properly and seem to be hell bent on never having a good midfield ever again or the fact we cant get anyone to choose us despite throwing life changing money around. I cant understand with fantastic facilities, smack in the middle of bayside we are still viewed the same as when we were in bloody Seaford. Ugh.

Totally agree with this. Another HBF FFS. He might be a gun player but he’s not what we need. We need mids. And then we need some more mids. I reckon the reasoning that having DH would free up Sincs or NWM to play midfield is folly. Our defence is excellent and those two are two of the best distributors in the game. But let’s bust that setup coz we can get another HBF. Nope nope nope and nope. Stick to the foofin plan. Go to the draft and get two more young midfielders. FMD.

 

[SteeleSaints]

We will get a decent look at Jai Serong tonight playing in a pressure cooker against the Port talls. They are going to be under sized so it will be interesting to see who he matches up on. Port have added Marshall so they think they can really stretch Hawthorn's defence, we know key talls rarely dominate finals, but someone like Georgiades might get of the hook.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Clark had a rebuilding year in 2024, his best footy still ahead of him if he has a bit of well deserved luck with injury.
Get around the young man, he's as brave as any out there.

Clark's been rebuilding since we drafted him and still has the body and speed of a bloke in the Div 12 ressies

 

[Klaatu]

According to Cal Twomey we have pulled out of the Houston race.

 

[ESPN8 The Ocho]

Would not be surprised if the Houston play is about extracting more value from our picks than simply pitching for a player.

For example: #8 for Carlton’s #11 plus something worthwhile, maybe early second.
Let Carlton worry about getting the worthwhile something.
Is consistent with the declared intent to go to the draft.
Is consistent if Dalrymple has the hots for a player in the teens that would be a stretch at #8.
Is consistent if Dalrymple believes there is extra value in the 20-30 range.
Gets an extra pick at minimal cost.

Or something along those lines.

 

[akaifu]

According to Cal Twomey we have pulled out of the Houston race.

Unsurprising

A fantastic player but just not what our squad needs right now. Doesn't solve a positional need, and doesn't solve a need in our age demographic. Not exactly a leader either it seems. Would just be a short-term sugar hit that would force the coaches to reshuffle what is our most stable line in defence. Glad we are not making the same mistake as we have in the years gone by

Back in Nas and Sincs to continue to lead the offensive drive off half back with Hastie and Arie set to slot in as well long-term

 

[The Punter]

Clark's been rebuilding since we drafted him and still has the body and speed of a bloke in the Div 12 ressies

How he succeeds at AFL Level (look at his numbers) therefore remains a mystery...

 

[botts]

Saints cool on Houston chase, Mac's mega deal explained, future picks on table

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

Everyone can relax

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Clearly told he has no interest in coming to us so we ‘pulled out’

 

[Joffaboy]

I don’t devalue him, he is a good player. Don’t think he’s the Dalai Lama though.

Lol. You must have forgotton the last five years of using the Brad Hill trade to relentlessly bash the club along with the other 4 trades you straw man as 'topping up'
Now 5 years later 4 are still in the 22, Hill, Howard and Butler are automatic selections and Jones looked the mid we drafted for at the end of the season after overcoming injuries.
We were discussing Hills worth as a leader of the indigenous kids on board at the Saints and his role with NAZ, Henry and Collard and you try to devalue that by saying it was all Wood.
Both Hill and Wood are mentors and great leaders, the work Wood does with the kids is apparently terrific and the young ones look to him. He has taken players into his home, works with them.at training, reviews video with them etc. Has won best clubman for a reason.
One thing he is not though is indigenous and while the 6 or seven players we have of aboriginal decent are from different peoples and country, they have a bond as a first nations people.
Hill is the one that nutures and leads these players, WAS instrumental in getting NAZ to resign, WAS instrumental in getting Henry over, has worked with Collard and if by the length of contract is a sign, Collard has settled and the club are confident.

No doubt he works Aunty Katrina who has done a wonderful job at the club for the culture that is there now.

Brad Hill is proving to be one of the best investments this club has made for a long time. If it was on playing ability alone the argument could still be made it was a good trade, after all a trade is made to improve the teams performance.
But it is so much more than just being a player, you can see how much he is loved when you have a huge bunch of Hawk supporters mobbing him at the final the other night.
I don't know and doubt he was traded to be such a leader for our kids, but that is a consequence and a lesson to not go off half cocked about a trade or draft pick because the script may have years to play out.
Oh and to use hyperbole like he isn't the Dalia Lama is to dismiss and denigrate him.


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[Joffaboy]

Clearly told he has no interest in coming to us so we ‘pulled out’

Clearly you really haven't a clue what has transpired. May be that, may be reasons our end like Port demanding two frdps this year for him.
He is contracted for 3 years, if he wants out Port have the upper hand, he can't demand to go where he wants.

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[inntheno]

How he succeeds at AFL Level (look at his numbers) therefore remains a mystery...

Yep, clearly cannot footy at all. Maybe just friends with someone at the Club and got a jumper and shorts that way.