List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[luca77]

I think he’s definitely a decent footballer.

I’m not sure he’s been treated unfairly by Carlton though. He gets a game every week. His issue is though that the Blues have too many similar types and there are better mids ahead of him so he has to spend time in other positions.

He’d have the same issue with us I’d imagine and probably nearly every other club in the competition.

You need a point of difference in your midfield so unless you are elite as that one paced hall winner you are going to struggle to get a full game in the middle.

I was thinking the same thing.
Without having checked stats, he's not going to be a Lachie Neale mass accumulator.
He's not huge (says he's 190, but he might have had a high-hair-day that day).
He doesn't have the dog-hungry Jai Newcombe attack on the ball.

Plays more like a Neale-Bullen type from what I remember, maybe a few more marks but a few less goals. Which is very handy but not a guaranteed midfield spot each week.

 

[MordySaint]

Egos are the best part of key forwards.

A number of you severely underrate Daniher. He is a star who also lost a few seasons to injury.

If that’s all max becomes. We would be thrilled.

Max King is nothing like Joe Daniher.

I've seen Daniher take towering marks, kick goals from 80 metres. I've seen none of this from King yet.

This reminds me of the early comparisons on this forum ( and in the media ) between Paddy McCartin and Tom Hawkins which ended up as far from reality as can be.

What I'd like to see from Max is him play higher up the ground next season and learn his football craft a bit better.

 

[stavro#4]

He's had a Knee & shoulder reconstruction. He's having ongoing issues with both. It's clear that he's lost confidence in his body..What if he was shifted to the wing. Another player with similiar talent & attributes was shifted to the wing to devastating effect for his team in 2008..This player was aged 33 at the time & when shifted to the wing in Rd4 he came alive & so did his team. Was runner up in the Brownlow that yr & improved his team dynamics dramatically.. https://www.afl.com.au/.../richos-move-had-to-happen-wallace

Daniher Curnow Ben King have all had multiple major injuries.

Daniher managed 15 games from 18-20
Curnow managed 15 games from 19-21

I think Max’s biggest struggles are purely strength. It’s the one part the club and max have avoided to retain his athleticism.

Sounds like they are really putting in the work on turning him into a big strong key forward. Which will help

We dunno particulars, but given Tassie coming in and further draft disruptions being very likely, the length isn't as concerning for me. The "issues" will be how much capital and for how long will they be tied up in Ming.

We've always had a power forward as a club, BDE type, so I can understand when you have someone like Keeler on books that might be able to slot in, having 2x 2m+ KPF that are mobile, you sure up the BDE one and salivate.

There will be atleast a first round pick on the table during the next 5 years for max.

Clubs aren’t stupid. They would absolutely take a flutter on him - even with injuries and struggles.

To sign him to such an extensive deal today means we will pay him like a star of the comp by today’s standards. But by the end of the deal it will be a bargain.

That’s the benefit for both parties. I think this is actually great for max. He just needs to focus on himself and his footy now.

 

[St Neil]

Are you sure Max wants the Big Pressure of this contract , he looked like he wanted to cry at times this year , i can only imagine the years to come , 4 years would have been plenty

He signed it. He gets the benefit. He accepts the expectations.

No excuses. Time to deliver.

 

[stavro#4]

Max King is nothing like Joe Daniher.

I've seen Daniher take towering marks, kick goals from 80 metres. I've seen none of this from King yet.

This reminds me of the early comparisons on this forum ( and in the media ) between Paddy McCartin and Tom Hawkins which ended up as far from reality as can be.

What I'd like to see from Max is him play higher up the ground next season and learn his football craft a bit better.

Max King is nothing like Joe Daniher.

I've seen Daniher take towering marks, kick goals from 80 metres. I've seen none of this from King yet.

This reminds me of the early comparisons on this forum ( and in the media ) between Paddy McCartin and Tom Hawkins which ended up as far from reality as can be.

What I'd like to see from Max is him play higher up the ground next season and learn his football craft a bit better.

Terrible call.

This is 2 seconds of searching aswell.

 

[St Neil]

So do we think the Zac Jones signing signals the end of any interest we have in Shiel, Kennedy, Peatling et al?

We’ve got just enough room now for a Soldo sized signing, I would have thought.

I doubt we’d bring in Kennedy now we have Macrae lined up.

I suspect we still have an interest in Peatling but only at a price that suits us. From the reports I heard yesterday the Giants have now offered him 3 years and he might stay there. Collingwood have offered him 4 years.

As far as Shiel is concerned, that ship seems to have left the port.

 

[stavro#4]

I doubt we’d bring in Kennedy now we have Macrae lined up.

I suspect we still have an interest in Peatling but only at a price that suits us. From the reports I heard yesterday the Giants have now offered him 3 years and he might stay there. Collingwood have offered him 4 years.

As far as Shiel is concerned, that ship seems to have left the port.

The age - Peter Ryan.

Ran with our interest in Kennedy post the Macrae news.

 

[bird_man]

No issue with the King contract

He had a stinker this year no doubt. His 2022 season was quality for young key forward and only injury stuffed his 2023 season but average wise he was on track to another 50 goal year.

The only concern for me is his body but it does seem like a bit of a pattern with big key forwards to have these injury concerns early in their careers before their bodies harden up so fingers crossed he will come good in that sense.

 

[bird_man]

The age - Peter Ryan.

Ran with our interest in Kennedy post the Macrae news.

Which seems ridiculous. Why would we bother?

 

[SteeleSaints]

We have speed all over the ground.

Can’t see why we can’t have both. It’s not like Macrae Steele and Kennedy would all be starting at centre bounces together.

We need to build out this midfield group

The problem being his manager suggested Carlton want around a pick #30 for him.

 

[luca77]

Max King is nothing like Joe Daniher.

I've seen Daniher take towering marks, kick goals from 80 metres. I've seen none of this from King yet.

This reminds me of the early comparisons on this forum ( and in the media ) between Paddy McCartin and Tom Hawkins which ended up as far from reality as can be.

What I'd like to see from Max is him play higher up the ground next season and learn his football craft a bit better.

80 metres? From the centre of Marvel?
No exaggeration there?

They are different players, and Daniher has a long swinging leg action that gives him a few more metres.

Their goals per game is pretty much identical. Max gets more goals from ground balls than Joe who is pretty much useless unless he marks it.

As for taking towering marks, Daniher takes more marks than Max, but Max takes more contested marks than Joe. I actually think that's the problem with Max's game. He needs to take more uncontested marks. I think maybe Joe's strength (and craft) gives him an early start on his opponents, giving him more marks that appear uncontested.

Also, when it comes to shoulders, durability etc. Daniher has had 4 seasons where he played 7 games or fewer, including his last 3 years at the Bombers where he played 15 games in total. Since then he's kicked a lazy 187 goals in 4 seasons.

 

[stavro#4]

Which seems ridiculous. Why would we bother?

Because our inside mids are arguably the weakest part of the list for us.

If he wasn’t going to cost a lot you could almost give yourself a bottom half of the 8 midfield overnight and that’s not including whatever we do at the draft.

Kennedy is also versatile and very good overhead - which I think we lack players who’s strength is the high ball if I’m honest.

 

[St Neil]

We have speed all over the ground.

Can’t see why we can’t have both. It’s not like Macrae Steele and Kennedy would all be starting at centre bounces together.

We need to build out this midfield group

But Kennedy has been reported as telling Carlton he wants to play inside midfield.

He feels frustrated that he is being played out of position on a wing or a flank. The reason he wants a trade is to be the full time midfield bull.

We have Steele and now Macrae to fill that role. And potentially other developing lads in the team and whoever we draft.

I doubt he wants to go to another club unless they can assure him that he will play that role.

 

[The Punter]

Add Macrae

Keep Jones

Hard to see where we would have room for Kennedy.

 

[stavro#4]

The problem being his manager suggested Carlton want around a pick #30 for him.

Agreed, I could see this being the hurdle.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Then why does max take far more contested marks than Joe? Or are we just making unfounded statements

Really , id suggest you are the one that needs to do some research before you come on here trying to be smart , Old Joe has Max covered in just about all stats at the same age

Joe Daniher​ Name​ Max King​ Brisbane Lions​ Team​ St Kilda Saints​ Forward​ Position​ Forward​ 202​ Career Games​ 83​ Calder Cannons​ Origin​ Sandringham Dragons​ March 4, 1994​ Date of Birth​ July 7, 2000​ Turned 24 in 2018​ Age​ 24yr 2mth​ 201cm​ Height​ 202cm​ 96kg​ Weight​ 100kg​ 2012 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2018 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #10​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Essendon Bombers​ Last Drafted By​ St Kilda Saints​ 2018​ Stats for Season​ 2024​ 7​ Games​ 12​ 10.4​ Kicks​ 7.0​ 3.4​ Handballs​ 3.4​ 13.9​ Disposals​ 10.4​ 5.6​ Marks​ 4.2​ 1.1​ Goals​ 1.6​ 1.3​ Behinds​ 1.0​ 1.3​ Tackles​ 0.7​ 1.3​ Hitouts​ 0​ 4.3​ Inside 50s​ 2.5​ 0.6​ Goal Assists​ 0.6​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.7​ 2.4​ Frees Against​ 1.2​ 7.0​ Contested Possessions​ 5.1​ 6.7​ Uncontested Possessions​ 5.5​ 7.0​ Effective Disposals​ 6.8​ 50.4%​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 65.4%​ 5.0​ Clangers​ 2.9​ 1.6​ Contested Marks​ 1.5​ 2.3​ Marks Inside 50​ 1.8​ 1.3​ Clearances​ 0.1​ 0.3​ Rebound 50s​ 0​ 1.4​ One Percenters​ 0.6​ 0.1​ Bounces​ 0​ 96.6​ Time On Ground %​ 86.2​ 0.1​ Centre Clearances​ 0​ 1.1​ Stoppage Clearances​ 0.1​ 5.3​ Score Involvements​ 5.0​ 298.4​ Metres Gained​ 213.4​ 5.6​ Turnovers​ 3.2​ 0.4​ Intercepts​ 0.5​ 0.6​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.2​ 63.9​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 51.4​ 56.9​ Supercoach Score​ 55.8​

 

[stavro#4]

But Kennedy has been reported as telling Carlton he wants to play inside midfield.

He feels frustrated that he is being played out of position on a wing or a flank. The reason he wants a trade is to be the full time midfield bull.

We have Steele and now Macrae to fill that role. And potentially other developing lads in the team and whoever we draft.

I doubt he wants to go to another club unless they can assure him that he will play that role.

feels like all the best sides have multiple players who can play as inside mids.

Feels like we are banking on Steele and Macrae and that’s it.

 

[luca77]

Really , id suggest you are the one that needs to do some research before you come on here trying to be smart , Old Joe has Max covered in just about all stats at the same age

​ Joe Daniher​ Name​ Max King​ Brisbane Lions​ Team​ St Kilda Saints​ Forward​ Position​ Forward​ 202​ Career Games​ 83​ Calder Cannons​ Origin​ Sandringham Dragons​ March 4, 1994​ Date of Birth​ July 7, 2000​ Turned 24 in 2018​ Age​ 24yr 2mth​ 201cm​ Height​ 202cm​ 96kg​ Weight​ 100kg​ 2012 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2018 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #10​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Essendon Bombers​ Last Drafted By​ St Kilda Saints​ 2018​ Stats for Season​ 2024​ 7​ Games​ 12​ 10.4​ Kicks​ 7.0​ 3.4​ Handballs​ 3.4​ 13.9​ Disposals​ 10.4​ 5.6​ Marks​ 4.2​ 1.1​ Goals​ 1.6​ 1.3​ Behinds​ 1.0​ 1.3​ Tackles​ 0.7​ 1.3​ Hitouts​ 0​ 4.3​ Inside 50s​ 2.5​ 0.6​ Goal Assists​ 0.6​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.7​ 2.4​ Frees Against​ 1.2​ 7.0​ Contested Possessions​ 5.1​ 6.7​ Uncontested Possessions​ 5.5​ 7.0​ Effective Disposals​ 6.8​ 50.4%​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 65.4%​ 5.0​ Clangers​ 2.9​ 1.6​ Contested Marks​ 1.5​ 2.3​ Marks Inside 50​ 1.8​ 1.3​ Clearances​ 0.1​ 0.3​ Rebound 50s​ 0​ 1.4​ One Percenters​ 0.6​ 0.1​ Bounces​ 0​ 96.6​ Time On Ground %​ 86.2​ 0.1​ Centre Clearances​ 0​ 1.1​ Stoppage Clearances​ 0.1​ 5.3​ Score Involvements​ 5.0​ 298.4​ Metres Gained​ 213.4​ 5.6​ Turnovers​ 3.2​ 0.4​ Intercepts​ 0.5​ 0.6​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.2​ 63.9​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 51.4​ 56.9​ Supercoach Score​ 55.8​

That's one season. Look at their careers for a better picture.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Really , id suggest you are the one that needs to do some research before you come on here trying to be smart , Old Joe has Max covered in just about all stats at the same age

​ Joe Daniher​ Name​ Max King​ Brisbane Lions​ Team​ St Kilda Saints​ Forward​ Position​ Forward​ 202​ Career Games​ 83​ Calder Cannons​ Origin​ Sandringham Dragons​ March 4, 1994​ Date of Birth​ July 7, 2000​ Turned 24 in 2018​ Age​ 24yr 2mth​ 201cm​ Height​ 202cm​ 96kg​ Weight​ 100kg​ 2012 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2018 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #10​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Essendon Bombers​ Last Drafted By​ St Kilda Saints​ 2018​ Stats for Season​ 2024​ 7​ Games​ 12​ 10.4​ Kicks​ 7.0​ 3.4​ Handballs​ 3.4​ 13.9​ Disposals​ 10.4​ 5.6​ Marks​ 4.2​ 1.1​ Goals​ 1.6​ 1.3​ Behinds​ 1.0​ 1.3​ Tackles​ 0.7​ 1.3​ Hitouts​ 0​ 4.3​ Inside 50s​ 2.5​ 0.6​ Goal Assists​ 0.6​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.7​ 2.4​ Frees Against​ 1.2​ 7.0​ Contested Possessions​ 5.1​ 6.7​ Uncontested Possessions​ 5.5​ 7.0​ Effective Disposals​ 6.8​ 50.4%​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 65.4%​ 5.0​ Clangers​ 2.9​ 1.6​ Contested Marks​ 1.5​ 2.3​ Marks Inside 50​ 1.8​ 1.3​ Clearances​ 0.1​ 0.3​ Rebound 50s​ 0​ 1.4​ One Percenters​ 0.6​ 0.1​ Bounces​ 0​ 96.6​ Time On Ground %​ 86.2​ 0.1​ Centre Clearances​ 0​ 1.1​ Stoppage Clearances​ 0.1​ 5.3​ Score Involvements​ 5.0​ 298.4​ Metres Gained​ 213.4​ 5.6​ Turnovers​ 3.2​ 0.4​ Intercepts​ 0.5​ 0.6​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.2​ 63.9​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 51.4​ 56.9​ Supercoach Score​ 55.8​

Except we weren’t talking all stats were we, Einstein. Nap time

 

[bird_man]

Because our inside mids are arguably the weakest part of the list for us.

If he wasn’t going to cost a lot you could almost give yourself a bottom half of the 8 midfield overnight and that’s not including whatever we do at the draft.

Kennedy is also versatile and very good overhead - which I think we lack players who’s strength is the high ball if I’m honest.

As I said earlier, Macrae, Kennedy and Steele would be the slowest least damaging midfield in the competition.

We need to be getting Pou, Windhager and possibly even Garcia in there as much as possible.

Jones and Dow aren’t world beaters but at least offer a point of difference.

Kennedy may be able to play other positions, but he’s looking at a trade because he wants to be played as a genuine mid. He’d be behind Steele and Macrae as one paced inside mids and we’d be mad to play all three in there.

 

[stavro#4]

Really , id suggest you are the one that needs to do some research before you come on here trying to be smart , Old Joe has Max covered in just about all stats at the same age

​ Joe Daniher​ Name​ Max King​ Brisbane Lions​ Team​ St Kilda Saints​ Forward​ Position​ Forward​ 202​ Career Games​ 83​ Calder Cannons​ Origin​ Sandringham Dragons​ March 4, 1994​ Date of Birth​ July 7, 2000​ Turned 24 in 2018​ Age​ 24yr 2mth​ 201cm​ Height​ 202cm​ 96kg​ Weight​ 100kg​ 2012 National Draft​ Last Drafted In​ 2018 National Draft​ Round 1, Pick #10​ Last Draft Position​ Round 1, Pick #4​ Essendon Bombers​ Last Drafted By​ St Kilda Saints​ 2018​ Stats for Season​ 2024​ 7​ Games​ 12​ 10.4​ Kicks​ 7.0​ 3.4​ Handballs​ 3.4​ 13.9​ Disposals​ 10.4​ 5.6​ Marks​ 4.2​ 1.1​ Goals​ 1.6​ 1.3​ Behinds​ 1.0​ 1.3​ Tackles​ 0.7​ 1.3​ Hitouts​ 0​ 4.3​ Inside 50s​ 2.5​ 0.6​ Goal Assists​ 0.6​ 1.7​ Frees For​ 1.7​ 2.4​ Frees Against​ 1.2​ 7.0​ Contested Possessions​ 5.1​ 6.7​ Uncontested Possessions​ 5.5​ 7.0​ Effective Disposals​ 6.8​ 50.4%​ Disposal Efficiency %​ 65.4%​ 5.0​ Clangers​ 2.9​ 1.6​ Contested Marks​ 1.5​ 2.3​ Marks Inside 50​ 1.8​ 1.3​ Clearances​ 0.1​ 0.3​ Rebound 50s​ 0​ 1.4​ One Percenters​ 0.6​ 0.1​ Bounces​ 0​ 96.6​ Time On Ground %​ 86.2​ 0.1​ Centre Clearances​ 0​ 1.1​ Stoppage Clearances​ 0.1​ 5.3​ Score Involvements​ 5.0​ 298.4​ Metres Gained​ 213.4​ 5.6​ Turnovers​ 3.2​ 0.4​ Intercepts​ 0.5​ 0.6​ Tackles Inside 50​ 0.2​ 63.9​ AFL Fantasy Score​ 51.4​ 56.9​ Supercoach Score​ 55.8​

Except we weren’t talking all stats were we, Einstein. Nap time

I’d say the issue with the same age argument is that this would be a terrible season to compare Max and not a true reflection of what his average is.

 

[luca77]

Except we weren’t talking all stats were we, Einstein. Nap time

You were right anyway about the marks.

45% of Max's marks are contested.
26% of Joe's are.
Max averages 1.96 CMs per game, compared to Joe's 1.5.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I’d say the issue with the same age argument is that this would be a terrible season to compare Max and not a true reflection of what his average is.

Of course, but I wasn’t about to try and explain that to Risqué

 

[stavro#4]

As I said earlier, Macrae, Kennedy and Steele would be the slowest least damaging midfield in the competition.

We need to be getting Pou, Windhager and possibly even Garcia in there as much as possible.

Jones and Dow aren’t world beaters but at least offer a point of difference.

Kennedy may be able to play other positions, but he’s looking at a trade because he wants to be played as a genuine mid. He’d be behind Steele and Macrae as one paced inside mids and we’d be mad to play all three in there.

I think Steeles best footy is when he gets to spend some time forward. This would allow that.

I’d be willing to sacrifice some speed overall to win more first use

 

[CaptainRisky]

Except we weren’t talking all stats were we, Einstein. Nap time

I’d say the issue with the same age argument is that this would be a terrible season to compare Max and not a true reflection of what his average is.

That's fair enough i guess , at least you can put your case forward without being an _ - - -