List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.2

[jh38]

Yep,
but people are able to sit here and say the ( unknown ) mids we are going to draft will be able to hold up our midfield in 2025.

Our most successful period as a club was built off the back of drafting midfielders.
Dal Santo- P13 2001
Hayes- P11 1998
Goddard- P1 2002
Ball- P2 2001

All of these guys were contributing by 2004.

I can't name a team who traded in iffy mids and had success as a result. Kennedy takes us absolutely nowhere, he might have a B+ season as a career best.

 

[The_Steadier]

can't name a team who traded in iffy mids and had success as a result.

hawks brought in the iffy mitchell who then won a brownlow.

Lions brought in an iffy neale who did the same, twice.

There are truckloads of examples of teams trading in 'iffy' mids and having success- those are just the headline grabbing ones where it was a gigantic homerun.
Lots of less dramatic (but still successful) examples exist also.

Hell, carlton brought in a very iffy goat from freo- and that turned out pretty well for them

 

[Falchoon]

He will be an awesome recruit for us. He's like Crouch but better. He's 30 and hardly ever been injured. Bevo went off him for whatever reason but he will basically come in and instantly be our best mid. Honestly think we'll be like a different midfield with Macrae in the mix.

Those reasons include he's slow, kicks lack penetration and is beaten on the spread.

Kennedy is a no brainer if we can get him for a 3rd round pick, late 2nd. Much better player than Dow, Jones, Byrnes, Stocker etc.

 

[The_Steadier]

Dow, Jones, Byrnes, Stocker

Sounds like a headline from a financial crisis

 

[beside the seaside]

Those reasons include he's slow, kicks lack penetration and is beaten on the spread.

Kennedy is a no brainer if we can get him for a 3rd round pick, late 2nd. Much better player than Dow, Jones, Byrnes, Stocker etc.

Not sure about Kennedy, I guess we will see. Doesn't feel like he's coming to us. But Macrae's weaknesses that you mention aren't huge issues for us, we need guys that can win it at the coalface and he does that.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Not sure about Kennedy, I guess we will see. Doesn't feel like he's coming to us. But Macrae's weaknesses that you mention aren't huge issues for us, we need guys that can win it at the coalface and he does that.

I think people also forget what Macrae will also bring in terms of mentorship for the young kids. He is apparently a top clubman at the dogs. I'm stoked we are getting him.

 

[St Kilda Death]

hawks brought in the iffy mitchell who then won a brownlow.

Lions brought in an iffy neale who did the same, twice.

There are truckloads of examples of teams trading in 'iffy' mids and having success- those are just the headline grabbing ones where it was a gigantic homerun.
Lots of less dramatic (but still successful) examples exist also.

Hell, carlton brought in a very iffy goat from freo- and that turned out pretty well for them

View attachment 2115474

Neale and Mitchell weren’t iffy.

Neale was 2x B&F (and 1x runner up) before he moved.

Tom Mitchell had 26 touches 13 tackles and 2 goals in a grand final his last game for Sydney.

Kennedy is not and never will be on their level.

 

[SinCitySainter]

The problem is we do not need slow, bog average midfielders we already have them. Kennedy will not improve us enough to make a worthwhile difference, I don't believe MacRae will either but it looks like we have already committed to him. The area we lack is in elite talent and we are very unlikely to get that through trading but we have a chance through the draft. The odds of us getting an elite midfielder in the second or third round are very slim but they are zero if we trade that pick for Kennedy and minimal if we trade it for MacRae (he was at least elite at one time in his career).
This is reminding me of when we were looking at Dow with all the people saying he will be elite when he is not behind Carlton's A grade midfield. Well, I think we can now comfortably say that Dow is never going to be an elite midfielder just a bog average one.

 

[MrFoster]

The problem is we do not need slow, bog average midfielders we already have them. Kennedy will not improve us enough to make a worthwhile difference, I don't believe MacRae will either but it looks like we have already committed to him. The area we lack is in elite talent and we are very unlikely to get that through trading but we have a chance through the draft. The odds of us getting an elite midfielder in the second or third round are very slim but they are zero if we trade that pick for Kennedy and minimal if we trade it for MacRae (he was at least elite at one time in his career).
This is reminding me of when we were looking at Dow with all the people saying he will be elite when he is not behind Carlton's A grade midfield. Well, I think we can now comfortably say that Dow is never going to be an elite midfielder just a bog average one.

The fact is that our midfield needs a huge surgery. Macrae in, Crouch and Ross out does not move the needle much.. If Macrae or Steele gets injured and they will, we’re back to square one being the worst midfield in AFL, drafting kids is all good, but 1st year inside mids cannot shoulder all the hard work from day 1 or year 2/3 for that matter, they need seniors to do the hard yard and support around them. Show me a 1st year inside mid who’s killing it? Even Reid is only getting mid-teens possessions only.

 

[Joffaboy]

If kids can "impact" straight away, North should be right in the mix, or at least winning the odd game.
So if we play a new draftee , and we're lucky enough that he is good enough to get picked each week, he might impact one or two games.

Kids can develop without having to play at AFL level each week. Some of the top sides are testimony to this.
Tom Mitchell was absolutely hammering at the door before he got a game with the Swans. He sure as hell made an impact when he did.

No disagree, they cut twenty senior players in 2 years. Doesn't matter how good the kids are, they need that experience to be competitive and learn.
Naz, Pou and Wilson have all benefited and had an impact because we did exactly the opposite to North.
BTW if a kid is impacting one or two games they won't play the whole season as Wilson did. He impacted every game he played with his run and endurance.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Punter]

The fact is that our midfield needs a huge surgery. Macrae in, Crouch and Ross out does not move the needle much.. If Macrae or Steele gets injured and they will, we’re back to square one being the worst midfield in AFL, drafting kids is all good, but 1st year inside mids cannot shoulder all the hard work from day 1 or year 2/3 for that matter, they need seniors to do the hard yard and support around them. Show me a 1st year inside mid who’s killing it? Even Reid is only getting mid-teens possessions only.

So exactly when am I allowed to watch St Kilda again?

As the last part of the season demonstrated clearly, we only need to break even in inside midfield to be a very good side.

 

[CaptainRisky]

While I rate SDK. Is it a bit odd, we’d lose battle a promising defender to generate midfield selections, to then burn that capital on a defender?

From what some have saying we had no option but to lose Josh and SDK is more your full back type than a 193cm backman , i do rate him highly and would love him at our club but as with all promising young talent they seem to always go elsewhere

 

[sammm]

Nas and Wilson are the two absolute untouchables on our list IMO. Everyone else has a price (even if it's an eye-wateringly high one).

Hopefully we get Nas' signature wrapped up quickly or it could be a long year. SA teams will come hard.

we need a 6 year contract for NAS

 

[OxSaint]

Not sure about Kennedy, I guess we will see. Doesn't feel like he's coming to us. But Macrae's weaknesses that you mention aren't huge issues for us, we need guys that can win it at the coalface and he does that.

He will also be a mid that can hit a target by foot consistently and can be rotated on the wing and half forward. Something a lot of our mids struggle with.

 

[SinCitySainter]

The fact is that our midfield needs a huge surgery. Macrae in, Crouch and Ross out does not move the needle much.. If Macrae or Steele gets injured and they will, we’re back to square one being the worst midfield in AFL, drafting kids is all good, but 1st year inside mids cannot shoulder all the hard work from day 1 or year 2/3 for that matter, they need seniors to do the hard yard and support around them. Show me a 1st year inside mid who’s killing it? Even Reid is only getting mid-teens possessions only.

I agree, Macrae in, Crouch and Ross out does not move the needle much. but neither does Kennedy in. Ross and Crouch did not play the majority of this year so they are not the players going out of the side just the list. Kennedy is replacing one of Hunter, Dow or Jones and is not significantly better than any of them. So the reality is bringing in Kennedy improves Sandringham not St Kilda, should we really use draft picks to improve Sandy.
He is not going to be protecting the kids any more than HC, ZJ or PD would so I don't believe that argument is a very strong one.
A first year mid or two is not going to suddenly make us a top four side but neither is Kennedy and Macrae. Using draft capital on these players is just slowing down our ability to improve. If RTB is looking to just do enough to float around the middle of the table, maybe play a final for the next few years then Kennedy and Macrae are good choices and won't take us backwards equally they will not take us forward.

 

[phantom13]

My personal issue with Kennedy (and id note i would have had zero issue with him OR Macrae) is that we just dont need that much depth of average mids, chemistry and balance and that would make so much of our core midfield group imports.

If you do the whole midfield right now

Windy, Jones (I), Crouch (I), Hill (I), Wood (I), Nas, Steele (I), Clark, Dow (I), Wilson, Henry (I), Pou, Garcia, Hotton, Ross

7/15 are imports, most playing ones. Thats gonna become 8/15 with Macrae and then 9/16 (or 8/15 if Crouch goes).

I dont have ANY issue with imports who are really performing, youd be mad to knock back an LDU or whatever but i just dont think you wanna be using so many imports for grunt/rotation roles.

 

[Doggies7]

Hi all, Macrae is going to excellent for you guys if he can get an inside mid spot. He's definitely not cooked or damaged goods etc, the issue was purely that he is an inside mid who was asked to play a half forward role that doesn't really suit him. With Libba, Treloar and Bont locked in mids, that's too many of similar paced guys so Bevo needed to bring in Richards for some CBAs for a bit of speed in there.

When Macrae got some midfield rotations or played a full game in there for Footscray he still looked really good and his strengths were on show. Great club man too, neat kick inside 50, very good tackler and a solid overhead mark. You'll be very happy you've landed him and a smart bit of work to target him in a bit of a down year and obviously wanting some more midfield time.

I won't go into value on your board, sounds like the Dogs aren't just going to accept a super late throwaway pick as they still wanted to keep him with Bailey Smith

6

Bailey Smith

Age

23

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

out, Garcia maybe going and our cap in decent shape, our mid depth currently looks pretty shaky. But i'm sure a deal is going to get done and everyone will be relatively happy.

 

[phantom13]

The fact is that our midfield needs a huge surgery. Macrae in, Crouch and Ross out does not move the needle much.. If Macrae or Steele gets injured and they will, we’re back to square one being the worst midfield in AFL, drafting kids is all good, but 1st year inside mids cannot shoulder all the hard work from day 1 or year 2/3 for that matter, they need seniors to do the hard yard and support around them. Show me a 1st year inside mid who’s killing it? Even Reid is only getting mid-teens possessions only.

Totally ignoring the depth we already have sure Steele and or Macrae might get injured or need load management but then

Windy, Jones, Clark, Dow, Wilson, Garcia. If Kennedy is gonna sit in this group (which he will) whats the point?

I dont particularly care TBH, we just dont need him and hes not A grade (on output or potential), the only two reasons i think you trade for someone.

 

[Joffaboy]

How many games did Ross and Crouch play in the last two months of the season?
Yes injuries occur but look how we went once we got Jones Clark and Dow with blocks of games injury free.
With the amount of games we got from Ross and Crouch getting McRea alone is one mid better.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Nutsngum]

How many games did Ross and Crouch play in the last two months of the season?
Yes injuries occur but look how we went once we got Jones Clark and Dow with blocks of games injury free.
With the amount of games we got from Ross and Crouch getting McRea alone is one mid better.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, the idea he doesnt "move the needle" is ignoring that Crouch and Ross contributed next to nothing this year. He will be an immediate upgrade on the midfield.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sounds like a headline from a financial crisis

Mr Byrne's always checks the Dow-Jones to see how his Stocker is going.

 

[akaifu]

Yep,
but people are able to sit here and say the ( unknown ) mids we are going to draft will be able to hold up our midfield in 2025.

I don't think anyone has said that. What people have been saying is that these "unknown" mids will hold up our midfield when we enter premiership contention

They don't need to do anything for our midfield in 2025, that's why we're bringing in the likes of Macrae. Our starting mids are Steele Macrae Phillipou; then we have Clark, Dow, Windy, Garcia who will all hopefully be ready to roll through. Add on depth guys like Jones and maybe Hotton if he's still around. There's plenty of names who can play ahead of the 19 yos if they're not ready

 

[Joffaboy]

I don't think anyone has said that. What people have been saying is that these "unknown" mids will hold up our midfield when we enter premiership contention

They don't need to do anything for our midfield in 2025, that's why we're bringing in the likes of Macrae. Our starting mids are Steele Macrae Phillipou; then we have Clark, Dow, Windy, Garcia who will all hopefully be ready to roll through. Add on depth guys like Jones and maybe Hotton if he's still around. There's plenty of names who can play ahead of the 19 yos if they're not ready

Then you have blokes like Henry at centre square, and Stocker doing the tagging job. Frees up Windy to play a mid role.
We have a large amount rotating through the mids, the question is do we need McRea and Kennedy when we should be having a natural progression of Pou, Windy, Wilson etc stepping up.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Broski]

Curtis Taylor

5

Curtis Taylor

Age

24

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

delisted…

 

[akaifu]

hawks brought in the iffy mitchell who then won a brownlow.

Lions brought in an iffy neale who did the same, twice.

There are truckloads of examples of teams trading in 'iffy' mids and having success- those are just the headline grabbing ones where it was a gigantic homerun.
Lots of less dramatic (but still successful) examples exist also.

Hell, carlton brought in a very iffy goat from freo- and that turned out pretty well for them

View attachment 2115474

Comparing Neale and Mitchell to someone like Matthew Kennedy even before they were traded is crazy

Neale was a 2x B&F before he left Freo. Kennedy is nowhere near that
Mitchell was playing in a stacked midfield of Josh Kennedy, Luke Parker, Kieren Jack, Jarrad McVeigh, Dan Hannebery, Luke Parker as a 22 year old before he left for more midfield opportunity. He was clearly a Liam Henry-type trade - young player with lots of upside but needed a fresh new opportunity

Neither were "iffy" players