Training 2024 training updates.

[Doc1763]

Such awesome quality pics Doc. Loving your work

Thankyou, there's plenty more to come!

 

[Pie eyed]

Great writing Jen, showing some real flair.

 

[Pie eyed]

Thankyou, there's plenty more to come!

Maybe you and Jen should start a Magpies media outlet.
Classy stuff both.

 

[Mick F]

I think it's pretty straight forward:

Players play a lot of games early for two main reasons:

a) coaches believe they're best 22
b) coaches rate their potential and believe that getting games into them is the way to go.

Jason Wild's effort and attack on the footy was elite. Coaches love that and I I suspect the coach felt the rest of his game would become competent due to his effort.

Group a) are more likely to make it because if they're best 22 at 20 years old, they're going to be at 25 as players improve and they'll be better by then.

Group b) will fail more than group a), because the coaches won't always get it right as they're trying to predict the future, but they'll get it right more often than not if they know their stuff and also If getting early games into them is beneficial, it will sometimes also be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Good players get selected.

Too many games in the seconds can sometimes develop you into a good seconds player.

 

[sr36]

But for injury, Nick would already have played 50 games.

True. Seems strange, but going by GCs theory Nick might have a better career than Finn

 

[Daicosian silk]

Fly has said on multiple occasions that he likes to 'set players up to succeed'. I suspect that, as Jen said, Fly sees Fin as more than just a HFF / FP and wanted him to develop. Couple that with the interrupted years Fin has expereinced through a number of issues, and he is clearly being developed to come into the team to contribute in a number of roles. I doubt that the club would have spent so much time and energy with Fin if he didn't show potential and demonstrate the right attitude that the club is looking for.
I expect that Fin will break into the team and will be hard to remove once established.

Doing a 2-3 year apprenticeship in the VFL - the second best comp in the land - gives a good grounding to come in and succeed at the highest level. If they’re good enough they’ll make it providing they eventually get a sustained opportunity and are backed in by the coaches.
Michael Tuck who played over 400 games and in multiple premierships for the Hawks spent his first 2 years in the reserves. A couple of years playing against men in the VFL won’t hurt Fin or Reef

 

[sr36]

Good players get selected.

That's the most obvious reason why GCs stats hold.

I do however think there's been a coach mentality of getting 50 games into the kids they rate.

So you've had the kids who are already good enough and the kids who the coaches think are going to be good enough getting early games. No surprises with the results when you think about it - even though it surprised me.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The Master and the Apprentice - 29/01/2024.

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Which one is which?

 

[jc37]

Doing a 2-3 year apprenticeship in the VFL - the second best comp in the land - gives a good grounding to come in and succeed at the highest level. If they’re good enough they’ll make it providing they eventually get a sustained opportunity and are backed in by the coaches.
Michael Tuck who played over 400 games and in multiple premierships for the Hawks spent his first 2 years in the reserves. A couple of years playing against men in the VFL won’t hurt Fin or Reef

I think it is a player by player basis.
McIness is a multi-positional player who lacked engine for a midfielder and strength for a forward. Has attributes to succeed at both top level. I think he still needs more development in VFL (midfield side) but is now ripe for AFL and needs opportunity.

McCreery had a year in SANFL and had ready made traits to play a role in AFL team and has developed there since.

Macrae is a good VFL player. He needs 10-15 games consistency in AFL now to see if he is an AFL player at a weaker team like North he would get this opportunity. Can we afford to give him the time needed in the AFL when at this stage looks he can only play mid? I am not sure but maybe bigger bench helps.

Ginnivan was just a smart footballer I actually think he is better suited to AFL than VFL.

Harrison- as an 18 year old looks like Tim Watson. He has shown himself as a good forward and been unlucky with injuries. I would love him to develop more in the midfield in the VFL.

Every player is different and they all develop differently. Sometimes better to throw them into AFL sometimes better develop them in VFL. Sometimes a mix like Ollie Henry.

At the moment we have a settled team so development in the AFL is very hard. It is important we dont end up like a Saints who are still paying price of not developing any talent during their peak period.

 

[Doc1763]

Maybe you and Jen should start a Magpies media outlet.
Classy stuff both.

I just wish I could get to more sessions

 

[Jen2310]

tomorrow @ 9:30

 

[Gaspard]

I have to say Jen that your latest report is a real upgrade in the writing on your earlier work. Where before you had a few errors in expression that we just ignored because of the content. I am guessing that you had more time to refine what you posted for Wednesday's run. I'm not sure if I want the more polished writing or the more immediate report. Whatever you choose, keep up the good work for as long as you can manage.

 

[Doc1763]

The G.O.A.T. - 29/01/2024

 

[Doc1763]

A few of Nick - 29/01/2024.

 

[legendstatus]

I have to say Jen that your latest report is a real upgrade in the writing on your earlier work. Where before you had a few errors in expression that we just ignored because of the content. I am guessing that you had more time to refine what you posted for Wednesday's run. I'm not sure if I want the more polished writing or the more immediate report. Whatever you choose, keep up the good work for as long as you can manage.

Stay the same Jen, if uping the writing was because of online comments (Bullies) then just be yourself

It’s BF you have nothing to prove !

 

[jimmy35]

Geez the boys have come back in horrible nick

 

[Doc1763]

A few more of Nick - 29/01/2024.

 

[jimmy35]

This year is going to be so good. Back to back is hard but this side is primed I reckon. The freedom of a flag under the belt but the addition of more ‘layers’ to our game I’m hoping will turn our often dominance on the field into more dominance on the scoreboard.
1990 was such a relief and the players celebrated accordingly, as did we all, 2010 we were the best side but almost choked it away and then we looked so good early in 2011 but an egotistical dick measuring killed us off.
This year we are built different.

 

[Daicosian silk]

I think it is a player by player basis.
McIness is a multi-positional player who lacked engine for a midfielder and strength for a forward. Has attributes to succeed at both top level. I think he still needs more development in VFL (midfield side) but is now ripe for AFL and needs opportunity.

McCreery had a year in SANFL and had ready made traits to play a role in AFL team and has developed there since.

Macrae is a good VFL player. He needs 10-15 games consistency in AFL now to see if he is an AFL player at a weaker team like North he would get this opportunity. Can we afford to give him the time needed in the AFL when at this stage looks he can only play mid? I am not sure but maybe bigger bench helps.

Ginnivan was just a smart footballer I actually think he is better suited to AFL than VFL.

Harrison- as an 18 year old looks like Tim Watson. He has shown himself as a good forward and been unlucky with injuries. I would love him to develop more in the midfield in the VFL.

Every player is different and they all develop differently. Sometimes better to throw them into AFL sometimes better develop them in VFL. Sometimes a mix like Ollie Henry.

At the moment we have a settled team so development in the AFL is very hard. It is important we dont end up like a Saints who are still paying price of not developing any talent during their peak period.

Good points JC. It needs to be remembered that some players are more developed at 18-19 than others. Some are late bloomers. Some are bottom-aged. Some positions are historically more difficult to play as a teenager than others eg CHF. Some are skinny and raw at 18 but physically well-developed at 21-22. Some lack belief.
Then there’s Nick…

 

[Gone Critical]

GC's theory on this does stack up when you look at the trends and go through the older players in the league - they played senior footy early. It even holds for the very speculative converts to the game.

Having said that if you look back at the Hawks champions of the 80s, some of them played a lot of reserves footy, so it's not a trend that will necessarily hold.

Selection is subjective and biased by theories of the time. There's been a broad consensus that the best way of developing talented youngsters is to get senior footy into them. It might be that theory that is producing the trend with talented youngsters getting picked before they're better than some more senior guys. McRae's mantra of setting them up for success may see a change in the trend with them playing more VFL footy. The other factor that may see a shift is the increased specialisation of roles. In the past, a kid like Finn getting 30 in the VFL would have been selected to play forward pocket ahead of Harrison.

Doing a 2-3 year apprenticeship in the VFL - the second best comp in the land - gives a good grounding to come in and succeed at the highest level. If they’re good enough they’ll make it providing they eventually get a sustained opportunity and are backed in by the coaches.
Michael Tuck who played over 400 games and in multiple premierships for the Hawks spent his first 2 years in the reserves. A couple of years playing against men in the VFL won’t hurt Fin or Reef

It has been an accepted truism for a long time about the trend of Hawks players having the long apprenticeships. Tuck and Dipper are the 2 frequently put forward. Still if you look at it its not that they were doing these apprenticeships as maturing players biding their time. They were precocious if anything.

Dipper arrived at Hawthorn as a 16yo and made his senior debut shortly after turning 17. He did do a lot of 2nds time after that but was very young. He entered 1978 as a 19yo, played 21 games, won a flag and was BOG for the GF. Basically a few months older that Nick D was for his season 1. Dipper was on season 4 by that stage.

Tucky didn't play seniors in season 1 when he was 17, played in the 2's and kicked 63 goals as a FF. He debuted at 18 when he had 5 games, 11 the next year and then averaged 22+ games per year for the next 18 seasons

Both of them fit the good players play early classification. If you look at the Hawks champs you will see they played much earlier that what current kids do. That was very much the trend back then. Crimmins, Knights, Matthews along with Dipper all played at 17 and then played often. Plenty of other examples.

 

[JuniorB]

Good points JC. It needs to be remembered that some players are more developed at 18-19 than others. Some are late bloomers. Some are bottom-aged. Some positions are historically more difficult to play as a teenager than others eg CHF. Some are skinny and raw at 18 but physically well-developed at 21-22. Some lack belief.
Then there’s Nick…

Nick's been the messiah from some years back.
He was always expected to be great, and, boy, has he delivered so far!
There are already several moments that have passed into club folklore.
His upbringing has helped keep him grounded and humble.
His preparation for his calling is something you expect from someone far older.
I'm sure seeing how Pendles goes about things has reinforced his determination to prepare rigourously.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

A few more of Nick - 29/01/2024.

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Back in 5.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Don't write off Fin just yet. It could make you look stupid even if it is just an opinion.
Like the look of him , Reef and Allan.
Everything goes on upstairs between the ears at AFL level.
I've heard it all before about several "now" 2023 premiership players.

 

[magpies42]

Don't write off Fin just yet. It could make you look stupid even if it is just an opinion.
Like the look of him , Reef and Allan.
Everything goes on upstairs between the ears at AFL level.
I've heard it all before about several "now" 2023 premiership players.

Who is writing him off. You’re absolutely right it’s all between the ears. He can be the best preseason or VFL performer and never make the grade at AFL level.

I suspect he’ll come good though, based on his first year performance and the pedigree.

Reef similarly has shown enough that he can handle the pressure at AFL level.

Allan is the biggest question mark even though he’s a gun on paper. Hasn’t really even torn the VFL apart yet. Hopefully has a great impact and gets a breakthrough this year, can be demoralising not performing away from home!

 

[Big Bryza]

I dont really buy that reason give 36 of the 59 players selected in the 2020 draft have played more games that Finn or Reef with the same caveat. 22 of those are in the 30's 40's 50's or 60's for number of games played. Seems the numbers are the same as every other year if you look through them.

How many of those players have had their team make the PF and GF in the past 2 seasons?

Reef looks to be really coming on this pre season. Let's not forget that Fin had next to no pre season last year and still put up great numbers throughout 23.