Training 2024 training updates.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I wish we’d move on from this outdated Michael Tuck story. There were no age restrictions back in the day ….. and players didn’t have to wait until they were 18 to be listed. So the young talented ones were able to add an extra two or three years on a list compared to modern day players.

Naturally they’d spend a lot of those early years in the seconds.

 

[sr36]

I dont really buy that reason give 36 of the 59 players selected in the 2020 draft have played more games that Finn or Reef with the same caveat. 22 of those are in the 30's 40's 50's or 60's for number of games played. Seems the numbers are the same as every other year if you look through them.

I'm with you. The Vic part of the 21 draft was even harder hit - missing 2 years and they also seem to be tracking fine.

 

[Horaceg]

Jordy at Monday's session - 29/01/2024.

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Break out year, think we are going to see the whole package and just what this guy is capable of this year, look out!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Fin and Reef are fine. Comparing their careers to date to players at weaker clubs who have had far more opportunities is lazy analysis.

They just need a chance. There’s a vacancy for Reef if he wants it now that mcstay is injured but Fin likely will have to force somebody out on form or wait for an injury.

Not concerned in the least that the lack of opportunities so far is an indication for the future.

Side note….I wonder how many games Ollie Henry would have got at Collingwood last year compared to every game when fit at Geelong. Suspect he might have still had to slog away for some of the year in the twos especially when mcstay was on the park

 

[LuckyLee]

The G.O.A.T. - 29/01/2024

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Nick is a Ferrari, Pendles a Rolls Royce.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[cakewalk06]

Break out year, think we are going to see the whole package and just what this guy is capable of this year, look out!

I feel Jordy has already had his breakout year/years. But if he can take it up another notch it will really be something to see. He’s cemented himself as a big game player too.

 

[Gone Critical]

How many were playing for a team that won the Premiership last year and were within a kick of a grand final the season prior?

How many had a couple of all time greats still running around defying age and a host of other established +30 year olds?

How many weeks or months in total were they sidelined with through injury?

While your work is a very useful guide and I don't think anyone believes a Macrae or Reef is a sure bet to make it, I do feel that trying to establish yourself at Collingwood during this recent period of time would be harder than if either were drafted to a St Kilda or North Melbourne and it's one nuance (alongside injury) that raw numbers alone struggle to quantify.

Yeah its a guide but maybe not even useful.

One thing that it suggests is while.its no doubt easier to break into bottom sides good kids still break into top sides. 7 of the 36 who played a bit came from GF sides of last 3 years

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I wish we’d move on from this outdated Michael Tuck story. There were no age restrictions back in the day ….. and players didn’t have to wait until they were 18 to be listed. So the young talented ones were able to add an extra two or three years on a list compared to modern day players.

Naturally they’d spend a lot of those early years in the seconds.

Not to mention, there’s not a lot from 40 years ago that still dictates list management strategy or player development in 2024.

 

[Gaspard]

All the analysis of games played in which years of a career is quite interesting, and shows how players tend to develop or not. As soon as you seek to apply those numbers to a particular player, arguing from the general to the particular, you are trapped in a failure of logic. Every player is different, as are the circumstances he faces personally. In this sense, history doesn't matter. If and when opportunities come, the success or failure of other players when they got their chances is just not relevant. It is all on the individual at the time.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I keep reading how Cameron is lighting up the park in the preseason. Good to hear and maybe we underestimated the lingering effect of his knee injury in the second half of the year. Will be interesting to see how the ruck combination goes over the course of the year especially with the potential emergence of begg .

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

How many were playing for a team that won the Premiership last year and were within a kick of a grand final the season prior?

How many had a couple of all time greats still running around defying age and a host of other established +30 year olds?

How many weeks or months in total were they sidelined with through injury?

While your work is a very useful guide and I don't think anyone believes a Macrae or Reef is a sure bet to make it, I do feel that trying to establish yourself at Collingwood during this recent period of time would be harder than if either were drafted to a St Kilda or North Melbourne and it's one nuance (alongside injury) that raw numbers alone struggle to quantify.

Also add in Covid, and our SANFL recruits like Johnson and mccreery and Carmichael had the benefit of being able to play football prior to being drafted whilst the Victorian kids had nothing for two years. So naturally Johnson and mccreery got better opportunities as they were more ready made.

 

[JuniorB]

Also add in Covid, and our SANFL recruits like Johnson and mccreery and Carmichael had the benefit of being able to play football prior to being drafted whilst the Victorian kids had nothing for two years. So naturally Johnson and mccreery got better opportunities as they were more ready made.

Ash & Josh are older too, although their development at AFL level hasn't been as advanced due to them coming through different "pathways".

 

[sr36]

Not to mention, there’s not a lot from 40 years ago that still dictates list management strategy or player development in 2024.

To me that's the point.

Long VFL apprenticeships haven't really resulted in players in recent times, as Gone Critical is showing. But if they did in an era which isn't dominated by recent thinking on selection, development and list management long VFL apprenticeships may end up being effective if the recent thinking changes.

 

[Horaceg]

I feel Jordy has already had his breakout year/years. But if he can take it up another notch it will really be something to see. He’s cemented himself as a big game player too.

I think there’s another level, he’s not the best in the Comp, I think he could be.

 

[Pie thon]

On the young mids getting an opportunity. We had at least one midfielder out injured all year. If you don't include WHE then only 2 games with all of them. And around 5 games with 2 out. We don't have big small forward depth, so a few games we had mids cover them.
And I would consider 2023 to be a below average injury list that we dealt with. Especially in the midfield.
The point being for example is that Macrae & Allan could play half the season in games together purely from injury you get from a typical season. And then there's that patch where you get a few games where a 3rd player is used where we get to see some glimpses of the others.
The thing that's exciting and was last year. It doesn't bother us as much because our depth is so good.

 

[Gone Critical]

Fin and Reef are fine. Comparing their careers to date to players at weaker clubs who have had far more opportunities is lazy analysis.

They just need a chance. There’s a vacancy for Reef if he wants it now that mcstay is injured but Fin likely will have to force somebody out on form or wait for an injury.

Not concerned in the least that the lack of opportunities so far is an indication for the future.

Side note….I wonder how many games Ollie Henry would have got at Collingwood last year compared to every game when fit at Geelong. Suspect he might have still had to slog away for some of the year in the twos especially when mcstay was on the park

I think I have been at pains to say the analysis cant be directed at individuals its just a general statement. It isnt directed at Finn. However the figures do say plenty of kids get games at strong clubs. Many variables involved

With Ollie Henry you would have to believe he would have played plenty of senior footy at Collingwood. His trajectory has been exactly what the really good kids do. He played 10 , 15 then 22 games. In 2023 he was 15th on the AFL goalkicking and kicked 41 goals. in 23 Brodie M was the 1st Collingwood to kick 40 goals in the H&A season since Trav in 2013.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think I have been at pains to say the analysis cant be directed at individuals its just a general statement. It isnt directed at Finn. However the figures do say plenty of kids get games at strong clubs. Many variables involved

With Ollie Henry you would have to believe he would have played plenty of senior footy at Collingwood. His trajectory has been exactly what the really good kids do. He played 10 , 15 then 22 games. In 2023 he was 15th on the AFL goalkicking and kicked 41 goals. in 23 Brodie M was the 1st Collingwood to kick 40 goals in the H&A season since Trav in 2013.

Many variables indeed and Collingwood playing great footy with zero passengers and minimal injuries in their positions has a lot to do with these players missing out. No different really to Johnny noble getting dropped….. he hadn’t done much wrong, just dropped off a few percent and markov was demanding selection. AJ too was kicking regular goals but ended up out of th3 team. I don’t really care whether or not other clubs fit young players into their 22 quickly or otherwise…. Stats and averages .. meh.

It’s fair to say that lots of our under 21s have been starved of opportunity over the past two seasons. Nor sure we got a rising star nomination last year. Doesn’t mean they aren’t developing though. It just is what it is.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Recent posts remind me of a very early Andrew Denton show.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Recent posts remind me of a very early Andrew Denton show.

Highly entertaining, articulate, intelligent and quick witted?

 

[Jen2310]

It’s fair to say that lots of our under 21s have been starved of opportunity over the past two seasons. Nor sure we got a rising star nomination last year. Doesn’t mean they aren’t developing though. It just is what it is.

Hard to get a rising star nom when the kids are starved of opportunity. Ryan played half a game, and Harrison played 3? games as a forward pocket. Fin played a half as a sub.

Hopefully 2024 will be different in that aspect.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hard to get a rising star nom when the kids are starved of opportunity. Ryan played half a game, and Harrison played 3? games as a forward pocket. Fin played a half as a sub.

Hopefully 2024 will be different in that aspect.

Yeah that was my point, people seem to be writing some young players off or at least questioning their futures. just because our best 22 has been playing so well.

 

[Jen2310]

Yeah that was my point, people seem to be writing some young players off or at least questioning their futures. just because our best 22 has been playing so well.

These kids will get more opportunity sooner rather than later, as a relative healthy injury list wont keep happening, and the same 22 keep performing well two-three years in a row will be quite difficult as players aren't getting any younger.

Once they do get opportunity, they've just got to take it with both hands.

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

There's still a lot of talent that are on the fringes: Fin, Reef, Harrison, and Ryan (of those that have played at senior level) Then there's Allen, Dean and DiMattia that are spoken about highly. Couple that with the likes of Lipinski, WHE, AJ and Frampton that have been in the 22 relatively consistently, but are perhaps on the cusp and the selectors are left with some serious work to do. It's a good place to be to ensure that spots in the 22/23 are well earned and not gifted.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Annabel has apparently swallowed yet another dictionary.......7 or 8 words rarely heard or read which had me hunting for my dictionary: cleaved gusto lassitude putative lissom ubiquity aberrant desultory

I reckon Annabel would kick a$$ at Scrabble

I like Jen's straight to the point approach. As George Orwell said in his writing tips -'Never use a long word when a short one will do'. Also 'if it's possible to cut a word out then cut it out'. Keep it simple. We are not all Rhodes scholars.

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

I like Jen's straight to the point approach. As George Orwell said in his writing tips -'Never use a long word when a short one will do'. Also 'if it's possible to cut a word out then cut it out'. Keep it simple. We are not all Rhodes scholars.

Double-plus good advice!!