USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris

[Gethelred]

Okay, we've had a good run. Some have had a good laugh and others have melted a little, but from this point we're improving the standard of discussion.

The rules for the SRP are thus:

Mod. Notice - SRP Board Rules (Updated 26/03/2023) - MUST READ

The SRP board is a place to discuss all issues, events and ideas relating to society, religion and politics. Naturally, these topics attract some strong opinions and vocal posters. The purpose of these rules is to encourage positive discussions and contributions. You’ll note they are relatively...

www.bigfooty.com

... and I'd like you all to stick to them.

From the Trump threads:

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Play nicely from here, please.

 

[CM86]

Does anyone here support trump?

Are you asking a general question if anyone on this forum supports Trump?
Or if any Australian resident is going to vote for Trump?

 

[CM86]

The MSNBC/CNN and establishment journalism cover up of Biden's obvious mental decline is a scandal. They all knew.

Off topic. But do you still value Jimmy Dore's opinion?

 

[Jello_B]

Are you asking a general question if anyone on this forum supports Trump?
Or if any Australian resident is going to vote for Trump?

First one.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm sorry, but former Republican Joe Scarborough talking to Biden via a shoe, with the first question comparing him to Trump's 2020 push for insurrection is supporting my point.

Stop letting the narrative control you.
Start controlling the narrative.

Joe Scarboroughs morning Joe is like Biden’s favorite go to show.

 

[CM86]

First one.

Do you mean implicitly or explicitly?

Do you mean genuine or disingenuous?


Because if there is a choice between red berries and blue berries, and one person only ever points out that we need to eat, but that the red berries are dangerous. That's implicitly supporting the blue berries.

The same as someone who only ever posts anti-Democrat, while defending Trump. Even if they state that they don't support Trump.

 

[Blue1980]

Who would people nominate over Biden?

And don't just say "anyone", I genuinaley want a name.

With putting no work into it , off the top of my head

• Kamela Harris
• Gavin Newsom
• Gretchen Whitmer
• JB Pritzker
• Josh Shapiro

 

[Blue1980]

Off topic. But do you still value Jimmy Dore's opinion?

Why would anyone value Jimmy Dores opinion?

 

[Blue1980]

Not at all actually, i've been following politics my whole life and have a degree in it. I was just making the point that covid turned politics into something we couldn't reasonably comprehend before and now you all act like its normal.

Err that is projection on your part.

Do you think we are still living under restricted freedoms post covid?

I just think you went down conspiracy rabbit holes during covid and will stay there indefinitely as those views are too much part of your identity now to ever give up.

 

[Present Not Past]

With putting no work into it , off the top of my head

• Kamela Harris
• Gavin Newsom
• Gretchen Whitmer
• JB Pritzker
• Josh Shapiro

I think they’ve missed their opportunity to replace Biden in any rational way.
They have to go all in now with Biden and Harris. Anything else at this stage looks weak.
Damn the torpedoes and roll old Joe out.
I mean Trump is no spring chicken either.

 

[CM86]

Why would anyone value Jimmy Dores opinion?

There was a short period of time where he was often viewed and cited as a 'centrist'.

Mostly by other 'centrists'.

Akin to Dave Rubin.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm literally stating that the only true opposition to the next Trump

No one is saying don’t support Biden if it comes down to it v Trump if they don’t like trump.

This is the blue maga fallacy, that we should lie about everything and make believe Biden is going great and will be able to run a campaign to beat trump. As if we don’t then Trump will win.

People who are undecided or not going to vote have eyes and ears, gaslighting them won’t work. Getting a Democrat who can campaign properly can.

If Biden runs, he will get killed in a general election.

There are a minimum of a dozen candidates (anyone who can present and string proper sentences together is a great start).

In an ideal world everyone would see trump for what he is and not vote for him, but back on planet earth that is not the case. To beat him you need to find a better candidate, it’s insulting peoples intelligence for Biden and the Dems to pretend Biden has no cognitive decline and going great when we can all see he isn’t.

 

[Blue1980]

There was a short period of time where he was often viewed and cited as a 'centrist'.

Mostly by other 'centrists'.

Akin to Dave Rubin.

Ex TYT alumni going to grifter circuit. Kinda waiting for Ana to do likewise.

 

[Blue1980]

I think they’ve missed their opportunity to replace Biden in any rational way.
They have to go all in now with Biden and Harris. Anything else at this stage looks weak.
Damn the torpedoes and roll old Joe out.
I mean Trump is no spring chicken either.

I still think they will get him to step down, might take another week or two with more bad polls. Just needs to happen before the August convention.

Otherwise they are just going Thelma
and Louise style off the cliff together.

Also would show the Dems don’t really give a shit about losing the election or believe it really matters.

 

[CM86]

No one is saying don’t support Biden if it comes down to it v Trump if they don’t like trump.

This is the blue maga fallacy, that we should lie about everything and make believe Biden is going great and will be able to run a campaign to beat trump. As if we don’t then Trump will win.

People who are undecided or not going to vote have eyes and ears, gaslighting them won’t work. Getting a Democrat who can campaign properly can.

If Biden runs, he will get killed in a general election.

There are a minimum of a dozen candidates (anyone who can present and string proper sentences together is a great start).

In an ideal world everyone would see trump for what he is and not vote for him, but back on planet earth that is not the case. To beat him you need to find a better candidate, it’s insulting peoples intelligence for Biden and the Dems to pretend Biden has no cognitive decline and going great when we can all see he isn’t.

OK, cool.

What's a lie or fallacy that I've promoted to defend Biden?

It doesn't matter what Trump does or doesn't do, the people who are going to vote for him will still vote for him.
The only aspect that will negate a Trump victory, is the number of people who vote.

So, the more we push that Biden is a senile failure (because we can't attack his overwhelmingly positive Government outcomes), the more we discourage people to vote.

There is a reason that progressives are repeating Fox News talking points. And it it's because we desperately feel the need to show how unbiased and logical we are.

The debate didn't change who Biden is or what he represents.
We just finished laughing at him wondering off during a parachute display.

There is no benefit in pretending that Biden is dangerous to US democracy, when we can see the real danger in Trump.
Stop being so 'bipartisan' with your critique to the point of forgetting the real world outcomes.

 

[GreyCrow]

On a rational level I understand the Dems strategy of steady as she goes

If Joe had said in 2023 he wasnt going to be a candidate then it would open the Dems up to various factions wanting the nomination

Competition is healthy but it can also create division which can be death

I didnt think that the Israeli issue would drag on and affect numbers. I thought it would blow over quite quickly but Bibi is hanging on to an idea that has no real end and has the potential to change US politics. Now this might be over the top but ehh

By the same token a front runner may have emerged who would be streets ahead of Trump and giving grief to the Republicans

 

[CM86]

I still think they will get him to step down, might take another week or two with more bad polls. Just needs to happen before the August convention.

Otherwise they are just going Thelma
and Louise style off the cliff together.

Also would show the Dems don’t really give a shit about losing the election or believe it really matters.

If Biden steps down, his replacement will be 'even worse'.

Trump is going to win the next election, and Biden is the only viable candidate that has a chance to beat him.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Err that is projection on your part.

Do you think we are still living under restricted freedoms post covid?

I just think you went down conspiracy rabbit holes during covid and will stay there indefinitely as those views are too much part of your identity now to ever give up.

I'm not saying we still live under restricted freedoms, although I do have substantial concerns regarding the precedent established during covid and that it may be used again. My point is largely that governments, including our own and particularly the US, Biden administration for the purposes of this discussion (although to be fair to the US, they were substantially free-er than us on this point) did something that had never been done before, in substantially limit personal freedom and autonomy on an untargeted, indiscriminate basis in the interests of the supposed 'greater good' and then they lied, or used misinformation, or in the very least overstated concerns to support their political actions. This isn't the place to discuss those things but I think we can all acknowledge now, particularly with Fauci since coming out and admitting us such, that things such as mask mandates and 6-foot social distancing were all made up / not based in evidence, and yet were imposed anyway. The reference here, and what you say is projection, is my (i think valid) concerns that the political class around this world got a sense of - we know what is best and it is our obligation, given that we know best, to implement that even if it means lying or obscuring the truth to get there. Which I think is a scary thought and something I don't think was as prevalent pre-Covid.

 

[GreyCrow]

Paragraphs are your friend

Without heading off topic I think the response by the Trump administration in the early days was ok - ie trying not to panic the market - but I also think when reports come out of hospitals being built within weeks come out of China and a 10m city being shut down then a cautious approach was required

Trumps problem - as always - was he wanted to be the smartest person in the room when he wasnt even the smartest object in the room. Good leaders stand back and let the experts talk but that was way too discomforting for an egotistical idiot

The rush for the vaccine was a medical marvel but the advice was poorly managed (imo)

Anyway the initial stages were appropriate and as new info emerges we did different things

 

[bourbons]

How did anyone close to Biden think that having debates was a good idea?
I mean the Trump team kept him away from debates during the primaries.

Desperation imo. Saw the writing on the wall with the polls and went for the hail mary to square things up.

The real perplexing part is why Biden still there after that gamble backfired spectacularly.

Anyway, for the second debate, Biden just has to ignore any questions and just attack Trump for 90 mins.
I’m pretty sure he can at least do that.
I mean there’s so much material to work with.

There won't be a 2nd one, Trump isn't turning up under any circumstances. Has already said he won't put Joe through it or similar (real reason is there is no upside for him, he's already in front whereas for Biden at least hypothetically the potential is there to make up some ground).

And I wouldn't be pretty sure Biden can do anything after the last one, its not like Trump didn't give him any openings first time around.

 

[bourbons]

There was a short period of time where he was often viewed and cited as a 'centrist'.

Mostly by other 'centrists'.

Akin to Dave Rubin.

I used to like him a lot, always had a fairly sizeable blind spot re: all things Trump and the GOP but usually spoke some sense on the topics he did choose to talk about.

But boy oh boy has he gone off the rails in the last few years, incredible

 

[Seeds]

Who would people nominate over Biden?

And don't just say "anyone", I genuinaley want a name.

But here is the problem. Almost anyone is a valid answer. Warren, Newsom, AOC, Buttigieg, M Obama, jon stewart. Almost anyone. Ironically one of the worst options is Harris but even she is slightly better then BIDEN at this point.

 

[magpie_marty]

Paragraphs are your friend

Without heading off topic I think the response by the Trump administration in the early days was ok - ie trying not to panic the market - but I also think when reports come out of hospitals being built within weeks come out of China and a 10m city being shut down then a cautious approach was required

Trumps problem - as always - was he wanted to be the smartest person in the room when he wasnt even the smartest object in the room. Good leaders stand back and let the experts talk but that was way too discomforting for an egotistical idiot

The rush for the vaccine was a medical marvel but the advice was poorly managed (imo)

Anyway the initial stages were appropriate and as new info emerges we did different things

Trump never mentions the vaccine he got booed at a rally two years ago.

 

[magpie_marty]

I'm not saying we still live under restricted freedoms, although I do have substantial concerns regarding the precedent established during covid and that it may be used again. My point is largely that governments, including our own and particularly the US, Biden administration for the purposes of this discussion (although to be fair to the US, they were substantially free-er than us on this point) did something that had never been done before, in substantially limit personal freedom and autonomy on an untargeted, indiscriminate basis in the interests of the supposed 'greater good' and then they lied, or used misinformation, or in the very least overstated concerns to support their political actions. This isn't the place to discuss those things but I think we can all acknowledge now, particularly with Fauci since coming out and admitting us such, that things such as mask mandates and 6-foot social distancing were all made up / not based in evidence, and yet were imposed anyway. The reference here, and what you say is projection, is my (i think valid) concerns that the political class around this world got a sense of - we know what is best and it is our obligation, given that we know best, to implement that even if it means lying or obscuring the truth to get there. Which I think is a scary thought and something I don't think was as prevalent pre-Covid.

So Trump supporting spreader events rallies,events at the white house was a great idea during a pandemic?
People died attending these events!
Not to mention Trumps shares with Moderna etc

 

[Seeds]

If Biden steps down, his replacement will be 'even worse'.

Trump is going to win the next election, and Biden is the only viable candidate that has a chance to beat him.

No they wont because people wont be worried that they are senile.

Plus a new person wont have the same baggage as Biden associated with inflation which biden is incorrectly blamed for. Likewise extreme lefties will show up in greater numbers for someone else as they think Biden has committed genocide in Palestine.

 

[magpie_marty]

With putting no work into it , off the top of my head

• Kamela Harris
• Gavin Newsom
• Gretchen Whitmer
• JB Pritzker
• Josh Shapiro

Gretchen Whitmer for me but i doubt the USA will vote a female president alas