USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Biden II

[Gethelred]

Okay, we've had a good run. Some have had a good laugh and others have melted a little, but from this point we're improving the standard of discussion.

The rules for the SRP are thus:

Mod. Notice - SRP Board Rules (Updated 26/03/2023) - MUST READ

The SRP board is a place to discuss all issues, events and ideas relating to society, religion and politics. Naturally, these topics attract some strong opinions and vocal posters. The purpose of these rules is to encourage positive discussions and contributions. You’ll note they are relatively...

www.bigfooty.com

... and I'd like you all to stick to them.

From the Trump threads:

Mod Notice
* Thread monitored actively. User who drag it down will be removed

Specifically: reference to TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) and its counterpart 'Trumpanzee' or anything similar will no longer be allowed.

Personal attacks are also to be kept to a minimum.

Play nicely from here, please.

 

[KAYNE]

There's definitely Trump supporters on BigFooty at large. A number of them also happen to be wacky anti-vaxx conspiracy theorists and so have found themselves limited from posting outside of a very small number of sub-forums due to spreading misinformation during Covid.

I think the scaremongering of a Trump presidency is the Democrats main weapon at the moment. Their candidate is terrible and doesn't fill anyone with confidence after a terrible debate showing. They will stress that if Trump wins the USA will fall apart. Even though it really didn't the last time he was president so it will be interesting if they can convince enough people that will happen.

 

[Borough Blood]

Stuff like this is why Trump will win. People on both sides are well and truly over mass immigration when theyre struggling to put food on the table themselves. Seeing your government help illegals more than their own is insanity. No one sound of mind could defend it but watch a few people here try...

Closing the borders will decide the election

Factsheet: Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) - Bridge Initiative

IMPACT: The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an anti-immigration research organization founded in 1985 that advocates a reduction in immigration numbers. CIS was founded by environmentalist, nativist, and anti-immigration activist John Tanton, who was...

bridge.georgetown.edu

Not exactly an unbiased source there

 

[spinynorman]

Remember when spinynorman said Biden was a monster for doubling down on border control

What I said:

instead the left chases the right on the issue but never come up with a way to torture ordinary, innocent people enough to satisfy those who would happily plant minefields along the US-Mexico border

nobody is changing their vote to Biden because they think he'd be stricter on border security

So I was right?

Look forward to coming back to this in four years when the Democratic candidate then embraces this Project 2025 policy and everyone thinks it’s now fine.

 

[Blue1980]

I honestly can't recall what politics was like pre-covid. I remember it not being a constant stream of doublespeak - but can't be sure to be fair. I think we've all had our minds re-programmed by left wing governments telling us less autonomy is freedom, dangerous and untested is safe and effective, immigration improves the economy and crimes are social enrichment. Such that i honestly can't recall what life was like before this.

So you’re someone who only became politically aware from covid times, explains a lot.

You think you are on the right side of history (pardon the pun), and you’ve hitched your wagon to the alt right.

The whole “freedumb” crowd you don’t realise are the actual authoritarians and fascists.

The establishment centrists lie as well, but this is a case of the disease being way worse than a possible alt-right/fascist cure.

 

[Blue1980]

Well this is all very convenient for your chosen position

If only there was some kind of public worldwide digital knowledge base you could use to remind yourself of life before the dark times, and perhaps in this case use it pull up some of KayKay's greatest hits to educate yourself, with a mind towards the methods and tenor of WH press secretaries in general.

Alas, clearly no such resource exists, and you will have to continue toiling away in intellectual darkness I suppose, forever in fear of the pure evil and malevolence emanating from teh left.


I'm dumb as a box of hammers, I dun don't remember shit and it waz da left wot did it to me!

Very convincing, mate

Also Kayleigh was press secretary until Jan 2021, well after Covid had begun.

 

[Blue1980]

Claims to be getting censored.

Is not getting censored whilst complaining about being censored.

Flowers definitely learnt from his hero’s. Podcasters complaining about being censored and cancelled to audiences of millions.

 

[Blue1980]

'Belief in democratic elections and the acceptance of election results' seems a pretty key differentiator in a democracy.

This seems like Achy

 

[Blue1980]

Exactly. This elevates him slightly above trump.....yet still light years into the depths of depraved humans.

Democracy - a nice to have?

 

[Blue1980]

No But Trump just pointing out how laughable these gotchas are

Liar - well sheeit a politician lying
Southern Border - attempted time after time to enter legislation which was rejected by Trumplicans
Energy Prices - would have happened whoever was in charge - its a nothing burger

The only one you really have is Support of Bibi - and that is deplorable - but again given the US-Israel relationship unsurprising and would be in place whatever regime was in charge

Try harder D-

Sadly as much as I hate Biden’s support for Gaza, is made out to be a Palestinian sympathiser by Trump and the GOP. So sadly the alternative is somehow way worse.

There isn’t an issue where Trump would be better than Biden, either individually or with the people behind the respective candidates.

 

[Blue1980]

But that's the thing. You don't have another option. It's a two-horse race.

One of the two (unless another candidate is parachuted in at the last minute) will be the next US President.

I'm not sure what the 'it's a belief not a skill' bit is meant to tell us. If Biden believed he was the reincarnation of Pol Pot I'd say that would be relevant as to whether I'd vote for him or not.

Well I believe I’ll vote for a 3rd party candidate

 

[Blue1980]

This idea that Trump would somehow be any different on support for Israel is laughable. He moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem in what was possibly the most pro-Israel move of any modern President.

The US political position of almost unconditional support for Israel and whatever they're doing is deplorable. I don't believe Biden or Trump would fundamentally differ on their approach. I do believe Trump would be more open to being bribed to swing one way or another which probably favours Israel. Same as he'll take Russian money to the detriment of Ukraine.

He called Joe a “bad Palestinian” in the debate.

 

[Blue1980]

They will now say they think both are terrible but continue to highlight only Biden issues

The “everyone sucks, but id vote for Trump. Now I’ll tell you why Biden and the democrats suck. Also here are some random right wing culture wars I agree with”.

This whole talking in code and playing hide the pickle is a skill exemplified by who I assume are their grifter leaders like your Russell Brands of the world.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm sorry, but the only person who has a chance of beating Trump this cycle, is Biden.

And yes, we can all gather around each other and burn him at the stake, constantly provided by the astroturfers.

We can keep insisting that literally anyone else would win, while ignoring the insane turn out Trump has had and the even more extreme turn out to offset it.


Trump is 90% guaranteed to win this next election, regardless of opposition. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.

So we can all help the MAGAts by repeating their attacks on minor specifics while ignoring the unfathomably positive impact Biden's administration has had on not just the US, but the world.

Or we can set a minimum standard for both parties and candidates, and attack whoever falls under the standard equally. Rather than showing how virtuous we are by holding one to a standard that's impossible to the other.



Stop letting the narrative control you.
Start controlling the narrative.

You can bookmark this, there is literally no way Biden can win v Trump, literally any run of the mill democrat would be a better chance.

Biden is 36% approval rating and being in the 30s no one has ever won from this position in the polls, and that was BEFORE the debate.

He will lose all the swing states and even non swing states like New Jersey are in play if he runs.

No guarantee someone else would win either, but nothing left to lose now. And I will guarantee you won’t get another Democrat running losing non swing states.

Now I’d vote for him regardless but we need to be pragmatic here and get the best candidate to beat Trump.

However if you want to feel better about Biden and drink some more kool aid you will enjoy this:

 

[Blue1980]

I think the scaremongering of a Trump presidency is the Democrats main weapon at the moment. Their candidate is terrible and doesn't fill anyone with confidence after a terrible debate showing. They will stress that if Trump wins the USA will fall apart. Even though it really didn't the last time he was president so it will be interesting if they can convince enough people that will happen.

Everything Trump did in his last term and especially from November 2020 to Jan 2021 should tell you everything you need to know and why trump is an existential threat.

Wannabe dictators trying to get elections thrown out to stay as president don’t have a good history of going “my bad, I won’t try that again”.

 

[spinynorman]

You can bookmark this, there is literally no way Biden can win v Trump, literally any run of the mill democrat would be a better chance.

Biden is 36% approval rating and being in the 30s no one has ever won from this position in the polls, and that was BEFORE the debate.

He will lose all the swing states and even non swing states like New Jersey are in play if he runs.

No guarantee someone else would win either, but nothing left to lose now. And I will guarantee you won’t get another Democrat running losing non swing states.

Now I’d vote for him regardless but we need to be pragmatic here and get the best candidate to beat Trump.

However if you want to feel better about Biden and drink some more kool aid you will enjoy this:

I honestly think “Biden is the only person who can beat Trump” is one of the weirder takes I’ve seen people buy into. Trump won against one of the worst candidates in history, lost to a fine one, and is currently facing off against a candidate who makes Hillary look great. He’s the luckiest prick in the world, and if the Dems run Biden and lose to him after everything, they ought to be immediately disbanded the day after the election.

 

[DaTBird187]

Old mate will legitimately just stand there and say a variety of things that are blatant lies.

Wait, are we talking about Donald's debate style again?

 

[CM86]

You can bookmark this, there is literally no way Biden can win v Trump, literally any run of the mill democrat would be a better chance.

Biden is 36% approval rating and being in the 30s no one has ever won from this position in the polls, and that was BEFORE the debate.

He will lose all the swing states and even non swing states like New Jersey are in play if he runs.

No guarantee someone else would win either, but nothing left to lose now. And I will guarantee you won’t get another Democrat running losing non swing states.

Now I’d vote for him regardless but we need to be pragmatic here and get the best candidate to beat Trump.

However if you want to feel better about Biden and drink some more kool aid you will enjoy this:

I'm sorry, but former Republican Joe Scarborough talking to Biden via a shoe, with the first question comparing him to Trump's 2020 push for insurrection is supporting my point.

Stop letting the narrative control you.
Start controlling the narrative.

 

[CM86]

I honestly think “Biden is the only person who can beat Trump” is one of the weirder takes I’ve seen people buy into. Trump won against one of the worst candidates in history, lost to a fine one, and is currently facing off against a candidate who makes Hillary look great. He’s the luckiest prick in the world, and if the Dems run Biden and lose to him after everything, they ought to be immediately disbanded the day after the election.

Sure.

Can you explain what you think makes Hilary look great? Without purely attacking Biden?

 

[CM86]

Does anyone here support trump?

Forgetting the fact most of us don’t live in the US, the US also doesn’t have compulsory voting so you don’t need to eat any berries.

Sorry, I mean genuinely to the point that you would go and vote for the guy.
And no issues I didn’t feel under attack.

For clarity. I don't believe that almost any Australian specifically on this forum will definitively vote for Trump.

But that there are posters on this forum who do support Trump.

 

[GreyCrow]

Look forward to coming back to this in four years when the Democratic candidate then embraces this Project 2025 policy and everyone thinks it’s now fine.

I look forward to coming back next week when hopefully you condemn Johnson and Trumps policy

 

[spinynorman]

Sure.

Can you explain what you think makes Hilary look great? Without purely attacking Biden?

I said Biden makes Hillary look great, so that necessitates a contrast.

I will say for her that her brain was fully functioning, she was reliably capable of speaking in public and, as much as her campaign was also a vanity project, she truly believed she would win and could plausibly back that up with evidence suggesting she would.

 

[spinynorman]

I look forward to coming back next week when hopefully you condemn Johnson and Trumps policy

My condemnation is the subtext to both what I wrote and this whole interaction but if it's explicitly required to not have a disingenuous conversation then yes, I condemn it and anything else that, as above, "torture(s) ordinary, innocent people".

 

[CM86]

I said Biden makes Hillary look great, so that necessitates a contrast.

I will say for her that her brain was fully functioning, she was reliably capable of speaking in public and, as much as her campaign was also a vanity project, she truly believed she would win and could plausibly back that up with evidence suggesting she would.

So no, you can't.



As you have a functioning brain, (which you insist Biden doesn't), can you explain how any other candidate could beat Trump?
Without 'accidentally' denigrating Biden.



For clarity, I'm not asking for your 'Wishlist', I'm asking for am actual winner., that you'd put money on.

 

[CM86]

My condemnation is the subtext to both what I wrote and this whole interaction but if it's explicitly required to not have a disingenuous conversation then yes, I condemn it and anything else that, as above, "torture(s) ordinary, innocent people".

It's the subtest that sways voters!

 

[spinynorman]

So no, you can't.



As you have a functioning brain, (which you insist Biden doesn't), can you explain how any other candidate could beat Trump?
Without 'accidentally' denigrating Biden.



For clarity, I'm not asking for your 'Wishlist', I'm asking for am actual winner., that you'd put money on.

Trump is a historically bad candidate. He has a small but extremely passionate base, and is widely disliked otherwise. Every poll indicates he is significantly more disliked than liked. He's previously been President, and did a catastophically bad job, including being responsible for the deaths of millions with his mishandling of Covid. He's currently facing 54 criminal indictments and has been convicted of 34. This is a woefully bad candidate who is extremely beatable, by Biden's own measure there's "around 50" Democrats who could beat him now.

Trump's Supreme Court overruled Roe v Wade, an incredibly unpopular decision, and one that he struggled to defend in his debate with Biden (which got overshadowed by Biden's bad performance, and his inability to lay a blow as Biden inexplicably answered the question about abortion by pivoting to talking about immigrants raping women). Someone who could prosecute that case properly would be game over for Trump, as this is one of his biggest Achilles heels.

Biden's badly bleeding votes on his complicity to the Israeli massacre of Palestinians. We saw in the UK some safe Labour seats go independent because of their softness on the issue, and Labor here has concerns about the same. But neither has been as all-in on this issue as Biden. He's historically been one of the most pro-Israel politicians in the Democratic Party, and is completely misreading the room today. It will cost him, and any candidate who can pivot and promise to halt the arming of the Israelis and join the rest of the world in standing up to Israel would do well.

Every poll shows "Generic Democrat" beating Trump. Biden is polling behind Democrats on a state level in basically every swing state race. He is an anchor on the party, and has given no plan on how he'll turn this around or any indication of what he'd do differently.