USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Seeds]

Labelling things left, right and centre is a pretty normy thing in political discussions as it doesn't mean much.

In an American political sense, the Dems are "left wing". In an Australian political sense, the Dems are "centre right" between Labor and the Libs. In a world wide, true political compass they are "right wing".

Left, centre and right are labels that don't actually tell you anything.

How are the dems more right wing then our labour? I would of thought they are more left wing on social policy. Most social policy reforms were pushed through by democrats in america before labour pushed them through in australia.

 

[spinynorman]

Labelling things left, right and centre is a pretty normy thing in political discussions as it doesn't mean much.

In an American political sense, the Dems are "left wing". In an Australian political sense, the Dems are "centre right" between Labor and the Libs. In a world wide, true political compass they are "right wing".

Left, centre and right are labels that don't actually tell you anything.

To the extent I agree it’s that a lot of it has been watered down, probably especially since the Cold War ended. Right wingers attack the Democrats for being extremist left wingers, but really they’re just woke centrists. I think to some extent it’s that the right have very comprehensively won politically, found that the world that they’ve created sucks, and so need to believe that it’s the left’s doing.

There are more descriptive terms such as socialist, liberal, neoliberal etc, but I don’t want to ascribe someone an ideology that I’m not certain of (where I can more easily say “left”).

 

[Financialpanther]

When Kamala asked for another debate you had to question why. She seemed to have won the debate and was ahead in the “polls” but was she?

It does show how little the polls are impacted by a debate (unless a candidate completely craps the bed like Joe did). But its more the span of time since the debate I would say, there would be a bump but with such a low attention span, the electorate forgets this performance relatively quickly. Harris wanted another debate to put in an extra data point closer to the election where it gives Donald an opportunity to make more errors.

Ultimately, the polls are probably back where they were pre-debate and with external factors starting to come into things such as offshore conflicts and weather events, this sits more into the short attention span pre election.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that Harris has made a number of significant missteps in the campaign - you have to remember this is an incumbent party during a time of higher inflation which is clear and tangible for many people. Harris was always going to be coming from a long way back despite the toxic nature of Trump.

 

[Millky95]

To the extent I agree it’s that a lot of it has been watered down, probably especially since the Cold War ended. Right wingers attack the Democrats for being extremist left wingers, but really they’re just woke centrists.

Mmm yeah, no. Also wrong use of the word woke. But good try

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Harris is being exposed.

As worse thann Trump?

Just LOL

Hey, but keep denying.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

To the extent I agree it’s that a lot of it has been watered down, probably especially since the Cold War ended. Right wingers attack the Democrats for being extremist left wingers, but really they’re just woke centrists. I think to some extent it’s that the right have very comprehensively won politically, found that the world that they’ve created sucks, and so need to believe that it’s the left’s doing.

There are more descriptive terms such as socialist, liberal, neoliberal etc, but I don’t want to ascribe someone an ideology that I’m not certain of (where I can more easily say “left”).

Did you just call the Democrats woke? Oh dear.

 

[Satan]

Lies have consequences

10-09-24 - Caller Anthony from NC - Father In-Law wont take help from FEMA because of disinformation.mp4

cdn.jwplayer.com

 

[pjcrows]

As worse thann Trump?

Just LOL

Hey, but keep denying.

Did I say I think she's worse than Trump? Keep up mate. It'll click soon.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Did I say I think she's worse than Trump? Keep up mate. It'll click soon.

Disingenuous too, I see.

You literally stated 'being found out' is the reason she is polling poorly v Trump.

 

[Chief]

This is because its so easy to be better, especially when you have the stronger policy position,

Policy doesn't matter any more for many people. They seem to take "we'll fix things" and "we'll take revenge" as good enough.

She verbally cant make the case to destroy him

I don't know about others but I'm not really sure what you mean here.

 

[Magnum27]

As worse thann Trump?

Just LOL

Hey, but keep denying.

Not a Trumper though

 

[OneGreatClub]

When Kamala asked for another debate you had to question why. She seemed to have won the debate and was ahead in the “polls” but was she?

To expose how pathetic lying and unhinged Trump is, and how cowardly.

 

[GreyCrow]

Harris is being exposed.

Isn't this the same argument that was given for Bunker Biden?

If I could be bothered I would go back and look at similar posts from 4 years ago

 

[Chief]

When Kamala asked for another debate you had to question why. She seemed to have won the debate and was ahead in the “polls” but was she?

A week is a long time in politics.

Repetition is vital.

Trump doesn't want to repeat his own awful performance.

Trump does not want to get fact checked.

Trump wants the open field of the conservative infotainment channels and his own rallies.

He wants to lie without knowledgeable people pointing out his lies. I doubt he will ever do a debate again.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Desantis spokesperson dispelling fema rumors spread by kimberrlee

The Trumps are so utterly disgusting, continuing to spread fear and disinformation in a crisis.
Lowest of the low.
Trump hasn’t offered one cent to the relief effort
meanwhile …..
Dolly Parton and Taylor Swift are making massive monetary donations.
meanwhile…
Trump still grifting at rallies and rage posting about people hurting his feelings on truth social.

Those two women have more leadership
in their little fingers than Trump does in his big overfed body..

 

[OneGreatClub]

Harris is being exposed.

Trump is hiding. Anyway polls are all
Over the place.

 

[GreyCrow]

Except the Democrats are chasing Trump on immigration and have at this point basically embraced Trump’s 2016 program. In turn, he’s gone further right and yes, what he’s proposing is horrific. Pretty sure I was the first person on this forum to make a post about that too.

It wasn't a chase it was a wedge

Trump ignored it - to his political credit - but both parties didn't suddenly wake up more nasty towards Mexican border issues.

It was political

 

[OneGreatClub]

It does show how little the polls are impacted by a debate (unless a candidate completely craps the bed like Joe did). But its more the span of time since the debate I would say, there would be a bump but with such a low attention span, the electorate forgets this performance relatively quickly. Harris wanted another debate to put in an extra data point closer to the election where it gives Donald an opportunity to make more errors.

Ultimately, the polls are probably back where they were pre-debate and with external factors starting to come into things such as offshore conflicts and weather events, this sits more into the short attention span pre election.

I don't necessarily subscribe to the notion that Harris has made a number of significant missteps in the campaign - you have to remember this is an incumbent party during a time of higher inflation which is clear and tangible for many people. Harris was always going to be coming from a long way back despite the toxic nature of Trump.

Enough info doesn’t get out to the US public. The US handled post covid inflation better than almost any other country.
The Right are running on constant lying, constant disinformation, get away with it, so do it some more. They are flooding the zone with lies as per Bannon’s plan.
If you are willing to lie about anything and everything with little push back and you have billionaires like Musk who
now floods X with disinformation as does Russia and China through back channels and Thiel, the Mercers, Leo, Fossil fuels, NRA etc who send millions and millions to the Trump campaign it is a hard job to get any facts out there.
The Evangelicals love Trump too as he is doing God’s work apparently. The uneducated and cult followers love being his chosen ones.
There is so much psychological pull here that MAGA will vote against their own self interests.

 

[OneGreatClub]

 

[Crankyhawk]

When Kamala asked for another debate you had to question why. She seemed to have won the debate and was ahead in the “polls” but was she?

Because showing trump to be ineloquent and brain farty (eating dogs, cats) is probably one of the few ways there can be cut through to the cult members without it being called fake news. As it is the cult resorts to “moderator bias”

 

[Crankyhawk]

Labelling things left, right and centre is a pretty normy thing in political discussions as it doesn't mean much.

In an American political sense, the Dems are "left wing". In an Australian political sense, the Dems are "centre right" between Labor and the Libs. In a world wide, true political compass they are "right wing".

Left, centre and right are labels that don't actually tell you anything.

Not sure they are between the labor and liberals they seem to the right of liberals on many issues eg health care, immigration

 

[Crankyhawk]

Disingenuous too, I see.

You literally stated 'being found out' is the reason she is polling poorly v Trump.

“Found out” may mean “failing to articulate a policy in line with what rank and file democrats want as opposed to continuing to be republican lite (to try and get the never trumper voters) and hoping that your base hates trump enough to vote. Which given the barriers placed by a shithouse voting system, the base is likely to not vote rather than vote against trump

 

[Millky95]

Not sure they are between the labor and liberals they seem to the right of liberals on many issues eg health care, immigration

More conservative in some issues. Less conservatives in others (abortion, LGBTQI+ just off the top of my head)

I could never see an Indigenous person or woman be the head of the Liberal Party for example

 

[FruitTingles]

being highly critical of the Dems is entirely logical if they are lefties.

Eric Weinstein and his brother
Scott Adam’s aka Dilbert
Tim Pool
Rubin

All alternate media grifters who claim to be on the 'far left' of Bernie, yet spent 8 years pandering to white male grievances or peddling conspiracy theories that the system was trying to stop Trump. There's a swathe of money being made by astroturfing from the left.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

“Found out” may mean “failing to articulate a policy in line with what rank and file democrats want as opposed to continuing to be republican lite (to try and get the never trumper voters) and hoping that your base hates trump enough to vote. Which given the barriers placed by a shithouse voting system, the base is likely to not vote rather than vote against trump

Fair points, but I will point out that polls are unlikely to be capturing non-voters. The numbers in the polls represent people specifying they will vote for either Harris and Trump.

So, by extension, if Harris is losing ground, it is going to Trump. Suggesting she is being "found out" means people are preferring Trump to her because she is a bad (worse) person. I don't buy that.