USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Chief]

Most of the progressive ideas that Labour adopt come from left wing think tanks in the US.

Which ones are these?

I.e. Both Labor and democrats source their ideology from the same people/groups.

"Ideology"? Or "policy"?

 

[Seeds]

Which ones are these?


"Ideology"? Or "policy"?

Ideology. Which is where you want to get to without constraints. Policy is what you put foward today given the constraints of the parliament and the electorates views.

 

[EagleMan87]

Polling was wrong in the mid terms.

Does anyone have a comparison of polls a month out from the midterms?

 

[Seeds]

Good points but Labor did introduce a national carbon price but haven't reintroduced it due to the nature of the conservative party they are up against

Exactly.

 

[Maggie5]

This is true but again the reason many of these policies are the way they are in australia and the usa is not because labour is more left than the democrats. Its because the conservatives are more right wing in the usa than the democrats. Pretty sure the democrats would push through an australian style medicare if they could and ban the death penalty. Most of the progressive ideas that Labour adopt come from left wing think tanks in the US. I.e. Both Labor and democrats source their ideology from the same people/groups. Its just one group has more opportunity to push it through.

And its not the case that the usa is more right wing on all policy issues. The usa has inheritance taxes (Labor wont even touch that), some democrat states have carbon taxes (labor wont touch that now), the usa have a bill of human rights (staggering that we dont) and until very recently the usa had roe vs wade legalising abortion rights in all states (australia has never had any equivalent relying on the states to determine abortion laws which has only been legalised very recently in some states despite it being legalised since the 70s in all the usa states).

Just in relation to inheritance tax in USA, really only helps the rich.

The tax law enacted under President Donald Trump has reduced the reach of the federal estate tax to historic lows. In 2019, the most recent year for which data are available, only 8 of every 10,000 people who died left an estate large enough to trigger the tax.

Legislative changes under presidents of both parties have increased the basic exemption from the estate tax over the past 20 years. This has cut the share of adults leaving behind taxable estates down from more than 2 percent to well under 1 percent.

Isn't this in Australia more of a State tax and not Federal?

 

[Millky95]

Second, they need to kill the electoral college.

Saw a comment on Reddit today that said "The Electoral College is DEI for Red States" and I nearly spat out my drink

 

[BigTacoBandit]

Exactly.

Which is kinda the point. The US "electorate" is more right wing than Australia's so the "the Left" party over there is more right than ours.
Just for survival sake really.

 

[spinynorman]

Second, they need to kill the electoral college. Popular vote is the only way to go.

Which polls suggest is supported by 60% of Americans, but unfortunately…

 

[carltonchelsea]

If you’ve read enough to know my sexuality you should’ve read enough to know my political ideology.

Yeah, we had a discussion about you being gay years ago!
Half of my close circle of friends are gay and lesbian and all are left or heavy left leaning, even the ones with inexhaustible amounts of coin!
What’s your ideology, let’s start there and work forwards because I’m very uncertain that you have strong political leanings at all, from what I’ve read, ambiguous at best?!

 

[Gough]

Yeah, we had a discussion about you being gay years ago!
Half of my close circle of friends are gay and lesbian and all are left or heavy left leaning, even the ones with inexhaustible amounts of coin!
What’s your ideology, let’s start there and work forwards because I’m very uncertain that you have strong political leanings at all, from what I’ve read, ambiguous at best?!

I knew a fair few Thatcherite gays when I lived over there which I always found really weird considering she introduced Section 28.

 

[GreyCrow]

Does anyone have a comparison of polls a month out from the midterms?

Midterm election polls U.S. 2022 | Statista

The polling in the days before the 2022 United States midterm election generic congressional vote between the Democratic and Republican parties reflected a lead for the Republicans, who led Democrats by 2.5 percentage points.

www.statista.com

 

[Crankyhawk]

It’s hard if we’re going to compare their current time in government because Albanese hasn’t really accomplished much. But I’d say:

Medicare, for its many faults that Labor inherited and haven’t done enough to address, is significantly to the left of Obamacare. Labor on industrial relations is well to the left of the Democrats. Even something like the Voice, though a failure, is way further than anything the Americans have touched on indigenous rights.

for all the faults of Gillards time in office it certainly achieved..

 

[EagleMan87]

Midterm election polls U.S. 2022 | Statista

The polling in the days before the 2022 United States midterm election generic congressional vote between the Democratic and Republican parties reflected a lead for the Republicans, who led Democrats by 2.5 percentage points.

www.statista.com

Thought so.

For the chronically lazy (i.e., me), how did the actual results stack up compared to those polls?

 

[spinynorman]

I knew a fair few Thatcherite gays when I lived over there which I always found really weird considering she introduced Section 28.

A friend of mine’s housemate had a portrait of Thatcher on his bedroom wall. Basically every night he brought home a different man. I can’t imagine waking up in the morning in a stranger’s bed and seeing that face staring down at me. Honestly, a perplexing self-loathing from some people.

 

[GreyCrow]

Thought so.

For the chronically lazy (i.e., me), how did the actual results stack up compared to those polls?

Unless someone has it handy I can have a look later on laptop

 

[Millky95]

Which is kinda the point. The US "electorate" is more right wing than Australia's so the "the Left" party over there is more right than ours.
Just for survival sake really.

Would take generations to change

 

[pjcrows]

Eric Weinstein and his brother
Scott Adam’s aka Dilbert
Tim Pool
Rubin

All alternate media grifters who claim to be on the 'far left' of Bernie, yet spent 8 years pandering to white male grievances or peddling conspiracy theories that the system was trying to stop Trump. There's a swathe of money being made by astroturfing from the left.

Would any of those people support public healthcare, paid family leave or a significant reduction in military spending?

Just because someone doesn't like Harris, and can identify why people might support Trump, it doesn't mean they're an alt right grifter. You need to spend less time on YouTube and X.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

A friend of mine’s housemate had a portrait of Thatcher on his bedroom wall. Basically every night he brought home a different man. I can’t imagine waking up in the morning in a stranger’s bed and seeing that face staring down at me. Honestly, a perplexing self-loathing from some people.

You're a complex guy, spiny. You have just perfectly described why your own affection for Trump (the person) is just so puzzling.

 

[Gough]

A friend of mine’s housemate had a portrait of Thatcher on his bedroom wall. Basically every night he brought home a different man. I can’t imagine waking up in the morning in a stranger’s bed and seeing that face staring down at me. Honestly, a perplexing self-loathing from some people.

I put it down to the fact that she could be f***ing camp at times. like monarchist gays who go all in for style over substance, I could put up with their wailing when Diana died, it was just the rest of the country I wanted to slap and tell them pull themselves together. I've always admired the English as a nation of emotional cripples and this was most unlike them.

 

[EagleMan87]

Would any of those people support public healthcare, paid family leave or a significant reduction in military spending?

Just because someone doesn't like Harris, and can identify why people might support Trump, it doesn't mean they're an alt right grifter. You need to spend less time on YouTube and X.

Pool and Rubin are, and Dilbert is just a nutter.

 

[spinynorman]

Yeah, we had a discussion about you being gay years ago!
Half of my close circle of friends are gay and lesbian and all are left or heavy left leaning, even the ones with inexhaustible amounts of coin!
What’s your ideology, let’s start there and work forwards because I’m very uncertain that you have strong political leanings at all, from what I’ve read, ambiguous at best?!

In a word, a socialist.

For a little bit more, I’ve been an active unionist in every workplace I’ve been in. I’ve protested for queer rights and workers’ rights, against war, for the environment and the developing, post-colonial world.

 

[CM86]

In a word, a socialist.

For a little bit more, I’ve been an active unionist in every workplace I’ve been in. I’ve protested for queer rights and workers’ rights, against war, for the environment and the developing, post-colonial world.

The issue is that it's hard to delineate your position vs a pro-Trump position, because of the 'actions' vs words.
Even though all of your actions are just words on here.


It's almost impossible to find a pro-Trump poster on here who acts in good faith, let alone admits that they are pro-Trump.
It's that constant gaslighting and dishonesty that has impacted people in your position.

When much of your actions (posts you make) are in line with pro-Trump people, it makes it very hard to accept that you're actually incredibly anti-Trump.


It's fair that you don't need to bring up what Trump is doing wrong, because you have faith and knowledge that another poster will.
So you're bringing attention to aspects that they might not be across.

But when the majority of your posts are anti-Democrat, sometimes to the point of even sharing false information.
While at the same time you are sometimes seen defending Trump and poisoning the well against the people calling Trump out.

These are the components that make you seem pro-Trump.

You'll tell everyone that basically you couldn't be more anti-Trump. But that isn't evidenced through the information you push and the information you oppose on these forums.

 

[pjcrows]

Pool and Rubin are, and Dilbert is just a nutter.

I know they are. I was referring to myself.

 

[CM86]

Any solid reason Trump is now pushing towards favourite?

No one can confidently predict it though

Because much of the media, including Australian media is pushing a ton of lies against Harris and the Democrats.

Panahi on Skynews was telling us how the latest hugely successful ad from the Dem campaign about former Trump voters, voting for Harris, was actually paid actors.

https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/rita/104441708


Then we have a huge (not-climate-change-related) natural disaster, and we're being told that Harris (Who is now the President somehow, don't forget) isn't sending any funding to help Americans, because she's so busy sending it to 'illegal immigrants' who are 'eating your pets'.


So yeah, you can pretend that it's Harris being bad, or the Dems doing the wrong thing.
You can even pretend that it's something to do with Israel etc.

But the truth is, it's the deliberate narrative controlled and spread by some of the richest and most powerful people in the world, who benefit from Trump. And the poor people who are taken advantage of and spread the disinformation.

 

[spinynorman]

I put it down to the fact that she could be f***ing camp at times. like monarchist gays who go all in for style over substance, I could put up with their wailing when Diana died, it was just the rest of the country I wanted to slap and tell them pull themselves together. I've always admired the English as a nation of emotional cripples and this was most unlike them.

Quite possibly, but then Trump’s incredibly camp too and rightly reviled. We even got one of the funnier Drag Race (a show I’m not overly fond of) bits out of it.