USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[10571z]

Interesting

 

[IlovethePies]

So you want to let racist trump scum to run wild and sack the white house?

No, I would fight for the revolutionary mobilisation of the working class, to seize political power and establish a workers'government.

The initial tasks of this government would be to arrest and disarm Trump's fascist militia.

 

[GreyCrow]

Read Lenin: "The State and Revolution"

The capitalist state is not some "benevolent, neutral arbitrator".

The military isn't "defending the peace", it is defending the interests of the capitalist class at all costs.

In such a scenario, where the military was mobilised to stop the paramilitary fascists of Trump, the next target would be the millions of workers and young people who would mobilise at the same time to express their outrage against the entire political system.

No you are simply wrong

Maybe one day but not November to January

But keep pushing the proletariat comrade

 

[GreyCrow]

View attachment 2156941Interesting

Of course its interesting you post this because you think this is discourse when its whataboutism x 100

Now do the Trump Epstein pedo ones

 

[Captivating]

That's pathetically hypocritical, as well as being a disingenuous assessment of his use of the term 'gay'.

But this is to be expected from the Trumpies.

Slurs for thee but not for me.

That guy, that gay guy," Walz joked, chuckling, “Michigan knows that word." He added.

 

[Skeppersap]

View attachment 2156941Interesting

Jesus.... There is a real link between Democrat endorsers and combs!!!

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

No, I would fight for the revolutionary mobilisation of the working class, to seize political power and establish a workers'government.

The initial tasks of this government would be to arrest and disarm Trump's fascist militia.

Trumpf spits on the working class you fool and you know it.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

That guy, that gay guy," Walz joked, chuckling, “Michigan knows that word." He added.

Now pick out any of the many insults and slurs by Trump in the past few days and let us know your thoughts.

 

[IlovethePies]

No you are simply wrong

Maybe one day but not November to January

But keep pushing the proletariat comrade

I have no need to push the proletariat. Objective events will do so by themselves. Independently of you or me

 

[10571z]

Of course its interesting you post this because you think this is discourse when its whataboutism x 100

Now do the Trump Epstein pedo ones

Everyone who has endorsed Trump has a photo with Epstein?

 

[IlovethePies]

Trumpf spits on the working class you fool and you know it.

so does Harris.

 

[troybe]

How come zzz Trumpers always act the victim

It’s the thin skin the barbs always go through easier and they’re just the metaphorical ones

 

[Ghost Patrol]

How come zzz Trumpers always act the victim

It's a personality trait. Relates to nurture, not nature.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I have no need to push the proletariat. Objective events will do so by themselves. Independently of you or me

How's the political science thesis going?

Your well-articulated arguments lack just one necessary element - addressing the current situation in practical terms.

It is laughable to say that this election is not about choosing the lesser of two evils, because it categorically is that. You use a bit of false equivalence to suggest that they are equally evil, but even that is not necessary for your argument. No-one is denying the volatile, dangerous, messy state of the US and world at the moment, but dismissing both parties as disastrous and not worthy of electing ignores the practical reality that the country needs to be governed. You can't just choose neither.

You appear to have deliberately downplayed the relative danger of a Trump v a Harris government. There is a significant gulf between the two.

I also think your socialist utopia outcome is a pipe-dream, both impossible to achieve and far less of a silver bullet than you suggest.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Everyone who has endorsed Trump has a photo with Epstein?

Yeah, most have only one but they all wish they had heaps of photos with Epstein like your man Trump, and got free rides on his jet to the Caribbean.

 

[iDon]

Using the army is not a democratic response.
It signals the institution of a military dictatorship.

When the army decides the outcome of an election, we are in the realms of Latin American miltary juntas.

This only confirms the point I have made above, that the program of the Democrats: support for genocide and imperialist war abroad, will lead to dictatorial measures at home.

Likewise, your suggestion that Harris will "use the courts" is totally unrealistic.

The entire judicial system has already shown beyond doubt its willngness to tolerate fascism.

there are six robed fascists currently occupying positions in the US Supreme Court.

Aren't you just a bubble of positivity.

Should we call it a draw and have no one govern?

 

[Fire]

No, not particularly.

As I said in a post before, the US working class in this election is given the choice of two paths, both of which lead to catastrophe:

Fascism
Genocide and war.

The program of genocide and war also leads to fascism.

The program of fascism also leads to nuclear war.

So no difference.

What matters now is not who wins the election, but instead the development of a revolutionary party in the working class.

As a fellow political cynic, your take is rediculous.

But you could at least have some internal consistency with it. Your headline is that there's no real difference between the parties, but your content aknowledges that the democrats are a step removed from the worst.

 

[IlovethePies]

How's the political science thesis going?

Your well-articulated arguments lack just one necessary element - addressing the current situation in practical terms.

It is laughable to say that this election is not about choosing the lesser of two evils, because it categorically is that. You use a bit of false equivalence to suggest that they are equally evil, but even that is not necessary for your argument. No-one is denying the volatile, dangerous, messy state of the US and world at the moment, but dismissing both parties as disastrous and not worthy of electing ignores the practical reality that the country needs to be governed. You can't just choose neither.

You appear to have deliberately downplayed the relative danger of a Trump v a Harris government. There is a significant gulf between the two.

I also think your socialist utopia outcome is a pipe-dream, both impossible to achieve and far less of a silver bullet than you suggest.

I have bolded the three key sections of your post that I think are most fundamental in answering it.

In relation to the first statement ("It is laughable that....because it is categorically that") I will simply reply that is absolutely NOT choosing between the lesser of two evils.

Both Harris (genocide and the drive to nuclear war) and Trump (the immediate attempt to impose a fascist dictatorship) are not "evils" that can be balanced in some kind of "common sense" set of weighing scales.

Both (sooner rather than later) will lead to the same outcome: police state measures in the US, and the drive to expanding war abroad.

In the second statement, yes, there is a practical need for a government. But that government needs to be a workers' government. Neither capitalist party has any program to offer than dictatorship, austerity and war. That is why the working class must seize political power.

In the third bolded statement you suggest that the ""socialist utopia is a pipedream"
In reality the opposite is true. Socialism is now a historical necessity, because capitalism is leading to barbarism (fascism, grotesque levels of social inequality and nuclear war, along with total refusal to deal with climate change)

How can anyone think it is impossible to achieve, under the conditions we live in today? The entire globalised world economy links millions of workers internationally in an international production process of all major commodities. The working class has never been more interconnected internationally before in world history. Moreover the development of social media and international communication means that it is possible to co-ordinate the actions of the working class globally in real time.

The key element is the existence of a revolutionary party which can explain and convince the working class of the historic necessity it faces to overthrow the entire capitalist system.

 

[Goroyals22]

Biden will squash any insurrection this time, he'll use the army if he has to. If Harris wins narrowly she will win through the courts eventually then they can lock up trump.

Are you talking about Joe Biden??? Apart from chewing on kids legs and calling half a country’s people garbage he has been on long service leave since he got rolled.. .. he might resurface after the election but only to do whatever Obama wants. The guy has done nothing in months about anything .

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

so does Harris.

Trumpf is there for billionaires, coal , Putin and big business. How can u possibly support him?

 

[IlovethePies]

As a fellow political cynic, your take is rediculous.

But you could at least have some internal consistency with it. Your headline is that there's no real difference between the parties, but your content aknowledges that the democrats are a step removed from the worst.

Huh??
Nothing I have said suggests that the Democrats are a step away from the worst.
There are equally as toxic for the working class as Trump.

I am not a cynic.

If you read some of my previous posts before making this uninformed comment, you could have avoided this false claim.
So, if you are a cynic, I have nothing in common with you.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Are you talking about Joe Biden??? Apart from chewing on kids legs and calling half a country’s people garbage he has been on long service leave since he got rolled.. .. he might resurface after the election but only to do whatever Obama wants. The guy has done nothing in months about anything .

He still has all the power until January. Get used to it.

 

[IlovethePies]

Trumpf is there for billionaires, coal , Putin and big business. How can u possibly support him?

...ummm I don't support Trump.

Not sure how you think I do.

Do you read what I actually post?

 

[IlovethePies]

...ummm I don't support Trump.

Not sure how you think I do.

Do you read what I actually post?

...thought not.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

The key element is the existence of a revolutionary party which can explain and convince the working class of the historic necessity it faces to overthrow the entire capitalist system.

Yes, we have a fanatic here.

Zero chance of your final sentence ever being close to reality.