USA 2024 US Presidential Election: Trump vs Harris (pt II)

[Stokey]

Do you think that “lawfare” has been enacted on Trump?

Yes. I don't think the Carrol trial or the Bragg case would have made it to court if Trump didn't nominate again. That's not saying he is not guilty just that the only reason they were pursued was for political purposes.

 

[Stokey]

Wrong. This is just so wrong.

What happens in the us politically impacts all of us. Our democracy depends on the us maintaining theres. The global liberal international system that protects us will fall if democracy falls in the us and so will we. As a starting point China will probably invade taiwan within the next 4 years if trump wins and it will drag numerous nations down.

In the next two years the us imposing a massive universal tariff program under trump will lead to a massive global trade war that will greatly harm our export markets and drive prices up for all of us. It will probably create shortages as well just like during covid times

This is fanciful.

 

[spinynorman]

Was just thinking the same tbh. Heaven knows what it will look like next wednesday.

We all need to remember that we are responding to people, not posts, and people matter more than our own views. Spread a little love, be less like venomous politicians. Speaking down on others who have different perspectives than you, only lowers you as a human.

Some of us like both candidates!

 

[NSWCROW]

Following on from the Undertaker poddy last week -

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www.kayfabenews.com

 

[King Patty]

And most of these are false beliefs based on low information.

The actual economists have looked at Trumps policies and AFAIK all agree they'd be significantly worse for Americans than Harris' policies.
Deporting 11 million people will make life worse, given many of those people work in low paid occupations that 'Americans' won't work in.
The Biden administration already has inflation back under control, and was a global phenomenon post-Covid.

All of this information is quite easy to find, but people don't want to find it, or don't have the skillset or ability to find or consider it.

Issue for Democrats is that Harris can barely articulate her policies.
all you hear is trump is evil and abortion.
If Democrats had another candidate, they likely don't need to use the Trump is evil card to win the campaign.


I don't think trump will deport working illegal immigrants, but anyone who is committing crimes will be on the first plane out of there, with their families, so they aren't split up. And potentially other people who are just on govt support and not trying to assimilate - e.g some haitians from Ohio given all the publicity.

low information voters, well it depends what information they are swayed by.
whether is main stream media, CNN, the view etc.
or X, Joe Rogan, Rebel Fox NEws etc.

can be low information voters for both parties.

 

[Osho]

people have many reasons for voting based on things that matter to them, its a a bit high and mighty to just call them low information voters, just because they don't agree with you.

when you listen to regular joe blows interviewing us citizens the main answers for trump are:
economy, border, and they usually comment life was better under trump than last 4 years, inflation etc.
Yes there are some maga patriots too who vote trump to stick it to the current govt and want change too.

most democrat voters when questioned, go to abortion - womens rights and can't trust trump due to democrat campaign excentuating his misdemeaners.

Female vote may decide the election.

Foreign policy, I don't think there is a clear advantage to either party. And most people will be voting due to issues closer to home self interest.

even in this thread, it's just like heads butting against each other, your not going to conivnce a trump aligned person to swing to kamala or vice versa

Sam Harris also loves using the "low information" describer. It's just plain elitist, and hypocritical. I'd think many, many voters are rusted on to their party, and do not need to process lots of data to reach their decision. Justifications are not necessarily analysis.

I agree that women may hold the key for the Dems as they did in the mid terms. It's an extremely tense election.

Dems have spent 915m, Repubs 352m, on this election, quite the advantage, but nothing like 2020 when the Ds spent nearly 4fold what the Rs spent. So funds may also turn out to be a factor, or, how well funds are spent.

 

[Osho]

Some of us like both candidates!

That's novel.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Lol. Harris hasn't that power over anyone. It's why you all want to talk about Trump.

So you admit he has power over you

 

[Stokey]

So you admit he has power over you

Not one iota.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Sam Harris also loves using the "low information" describer. It's just plain elitist, and hypocritical. I'd think many, many voters are rusted on to their party, and do not need to process lots of data to reach their decision. Justifications are not necessarily analysis.

I agree that women may hold the key for the Dems as they did in the mid terms. It's an extremely tense election.

Dems have spent 915m, Repubs 352m, on this election, quite the advantage, but nothing like 2020 when the Ds spent nearly 4fold what the Rs spent. So funds may also turn out to be a factor, or, how well funds are spent.

Sure if you completely discount all the GOP super pacs which pour money into the election.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Yes. I don't think the Carrol trial or the Bragg case would have made it to court if Trump didn't nominate again. That's not saying he is not guilty just that the only reason they were pursued was for political purposes.

So you accept he is guilty. And yet you think he is a good choice.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Not one iota.

Oh yes he does.

 

[faible]

Sam Harris also loves using the "low information" describer. It's just plain elitist, and hypocritical.

It's certainly used as a pejorative, but you also describe exactly what it refers to.

I'd think many, many voters are rusted on to their party, and do not need to process lots of data to reach their decision. Justifications are not necessarily analysis.

 

[liz]

And most of these are false beliefs based on low information.

The actual economists have looked at Trumps policies and AFAIK all agree they'd be significantly worse for Americans than Harris' policies.
Deporting 11 million people will make life worse, given many of those people work in low paid occupations that 'Americans' won't work in.
The Biden administration already has inflation back under control, and was a global phenomenon post-Covid.

All of this information is quite easy to find, but people don't want to find it, or don't have the skillset or ability to find or consider it.

I was just reading to the end of the thread before posting something along these lines. Glad I did, as you have saved me the bother.

Those comparing their economic situation at the end of 2019 to what they've experienced over the past few years are ignoring the fact they're not comparing apples with apples. A pandemic happened. A Russian attack on Ukraine happened. Both of which impacted global supply chains and energy prices. Inflation is something that every country has experienced.

Furthermore, there are other dimensions on which to distinguish the two parties beyond simply 'economy, border, abortion'.

Such as regard for the environment. Regard for the government agencies that do a huge amount of work that Americans take for granted until it isn't there. And a belief in some kind of "truth" rather than made up rubbish that has no basis in reality (FEMA not helping Republican counties, Haitians eating cats and dogs, immigrants largely responsible for all the crime in the country, elections are rampant with fraud, Harris planning on cancelling Christmas etc etc etc).

And for the person (can't recall who) who said that Harris can't articulate her policies, there is a huge gulf between the ability of the two candidates to articulate their policies. Listen to a small snippet of any Harris rally and you will hear her talk in absolute specifics about what she plans to do for families, small businesses and the like. Trump just says he is going to "end inflation" and deport 11 million immigrants. Oh and "make America great again". They're not even in the same stratosphere when it comes to articulating policy.

 

[Royces Hart]

Yes. I don't think the Carrol trial or the Bragg case would have made it to court if Trump didn't nominate again. That's not saying he is not guilty just that the only reason they were pursued was for political purposes.

The Carroll case was a civil case and not “pursued” by the DOJ.

Glad you admit he’s guilty of rape though.

 

[faible]

The Carroll case was a civil case and not “pursued” by the DOJ.

Glad you admit he’s guilty of rape though.

He's seemingly 'ok' with the wealthy and powerful not being pursued for crimes they're guilty of for <reasons>.

 

[NSWCROW]

****en hate trump but, **** me, this mob are pathetic

Creator forbid, but if any yank media mob ever get " Hebdo'd ", it'll be these idiots

 

[bourbons]

That was it? Thats the joke you've been equating with Peurto Rico being a literal garbage island? The one you've been framing as at the expense of Mexicans, where Mexicans aren't mentioned?

God damn dude, I knew you were a false equivalence expert from way back but thats incredible

 

[Carn The Berries]

Only fools like silly gimics.

Your thoughts on trump often calling democrats scum and the enemy within?

Whatever you think about these stunts, history shows us that they resonate with a significant cohort of the US population. Why on earth would Biden think it was a good idea to give Trump this sort of ammunition?

Trump's behaviour is absolutely appalling, but in the context of how effectively these sorts of comments are used in this campaign, it's not apples and apples.

 

[100action]

God tier



Trump's sportsmanship/showmanship has been disappointing relative to his run vs Hillary, i thought he had lost the love for the game

glad to see it back in full swing

 

[Carn The Berries]

Following on from the Undertaker poddy last week -

Undertaker endorses MyPillow

Legendary professional sports-entertainer The Undertaker is translating his fame from the squared circle into a new career as a pitchman for MyPillow. “These pillows are Phenom-enal,” the so-called Deadman recently posted on his Truth Social account. “They will really help you rest in peace!”...

www.kayfabenews.com

Wouldn't matter how soft those pillows are... If the big man Tombstoned you onto one it wouldn't be a pleasant experience.

One of the all time greats!

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I've tried as I said.

But when you (not you specifically) show you have no interest in genuine discussion, skip past where you have been corrected and repeat the same assertions, and are already being derisive of others, you're fair game.

People matter yes. Maybe Trump supporters could remember this when they support an authoritarian who is antithetical to the office he is running for, targets minorities, increases stigma, denies healthcare, suggests using the military against domestic opponents etc, and when they cheerlead the hasty, mass deportation of millions (without detail) which would be a horrific de-humanising ordeal.

It's fine to oppose and mock bad things or people who want bad things, especially if they are insistent. If people don't like it, stop doing or supporting the bad thing. Otherwise, get over it and clutch your pearls elsewhere.

I respect your views, however I don't completely agree. I don't believe this leads to healthy unifying discourse.

Mocking 'things' is quite different to mocking 'people'. We all like to think our views are the truth and whole truth, but everyone's truth is slightly different, it adds to diversity of thought and why would we want to 'mock' or suppress that?

We can think things, but not type them, for the benefit of others. Isn't this the type of society we want?

 

[GreyCrow]

So now trump is threatening to defund the police.

Watch all the lickspittles swallow this is as a good policy after spending 4 years trying to make a meme of it against Biden and co

 

[Royces Hart]

I respect your views, however I don't completely agree. I don't believe this leads to healthy unifying discourse.

Mocking 'things' is quite different to mocking 'people'. We all like to think our views are the truth and whole truth, but everyone's truth is slightly different, it adds to diversity of thought and why would we want to 'mock' or suppress that?

We can think things, but not type them, for the benefit of others. Isn't this the type of society we want?

Do you think Trump should be disqualified, by this metric?

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Some of us like both candidates!

I appreciate this, and the polarized barracking and mocking of the others, only strikes me as some sort of intellectual compensation and fear of having invested so much energy and self, that to think contrarily to ones dogma, is bitterly intimidating.

We can be better than this.