List Mgmt. 2024 Young Talent Time (Drafting)

[yakamoto]

Where Freddy really stands out, apart from physical attributes and ball skills, is when he gets involved in transition through the middle section of the ground. Almost invariably good things happen, especially when he kicks it.
His role in the team is generally that of high half forward, typically low possession role according to the experts. Maybe his role needs redesigning by the coaches.
When I watched his brother play a few games at Port he seemed to be assigned to patrol a central area between the centre circle and the defensive arc. Didn’t last long. Either not good enough or coaches decided position on ground not producing enough positive results.
As Freddy is a far superior player compared to his brother he might be able to make it work for us.

 

[apuchar]

He’s the worst fumbler in the entire 22. I honestly can’t name one player worse than him in that regard. Mayne Emmett or Banfield are similar.

Are we even talking about the same guy? There was several examples last week alone.
I’m a fan of Freddy but he is NOT a clean ball handler, particularly when there’s a loose ball bobbling around. He’s actually a decent mark. He’s a good set shot. He’s very quick. He’s got an eye for goal.

But he’s most certainly not the guy to cleanly handle rushed handballs to his knees or win a loose ball around the centre of the ground. Those jobs are the bread and butter of any good modern wingman.

I remember he was very fumbly early in his career because I gather he was self -conscious about the reaction he got from the crowd everytime he went near the ball. I pretty much consider he has put that behind him now. I will have to play particular attention because it hasn't been obvious to me that he is still a poor ball handler. Maybe he is just better than he was.

 

[Dockeroo]

I remember he was very fumbly early in his career because I gather he was self -conscious about the reaction he got from the crowd everytime he went near the ball. I pretty much consider he has put that behind him now. I will have to play particular attention because it hasn't been obvious to me that he is still a poor ball handler. Maybe he is just better than he was.

I think it’s a moot point regardless. There very little chance we will see him ever playing on the wing for us. He’s a high half forward and a pressure forward that is there to kick goals. When he’s good at that he’s very effective but I feel he has stagnated for 2 or 3 years now and is prone to having some shockers so there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

[noobermensch]

Berry turned in an excellent performance to close out his Champs campaign. He roamed up the ground and had a couple of rotations on ball getting himself involved in attacking ball movement, but the main thing that stood out was his elite pressure inside 50, with all five of his tackles coming in that area, two of them directly leading to shots on goal.

 

[nurries]

Berry turned in an excellent performance to close out his Champs campaign. He roamed up the ground and had a couple of rotations on ball getting himself involved in attacking ball movement, but the main thing that stood out was his elite pressure inside 50, with all five of his tackles coming in that area, two of them directly leading to shots on goal.

I like the look of him. Moves well, dual sided, kicks a decent ball, applies pressure. Looks like an upgrade on Switta

 

[Chris25]

Hi Chris any one you suggest at our second first round pick ? ( assuming we will trade first and third first round picks and keep second one) Lindsay/ Travaglia or anyone else you consider?

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Lindsay would still be the one for me with his run and skill. Guys like Lalor and Allan have the size advantage, but I’ll take the foot skills over that any day.

Those other guys are just going to be competing with the likes of Johnson and Erasmus. Whereas a mid like Lindsay actually complements what we have already instead of adding to it.

Then come back later and maybe target Urquhart if you want to build the midfield depth more.

 

[Wallsy78]

People comparing Berry to Billings make absolutely no sense to me.. They have a similar smooth looking kicking technique and running style but thats it

I've watched Berry all year and he plays with a real intensity to hunt the ball at ground level in the forward line and to pressure the opposition. It's a massive strength of his

I've tried to think of a player comparison for a while and I actually think prime Michael Walters

10

Michael Walters

Age

33

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

11.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.7

5star

D

20.9

5star

K

11.8

5star

HB

9.1

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

is the closest to the way he plays. Elite skills, both goal kicking and field kicking. Great sidestep and agility. He's fast but not elite top end speed. Really good overhead for his size, and has the ability to play deep at FF for periods as a lead up target just like Sonny did in his prime. Has shown the ability to pinch hit in the midfield, or even push up high with a really good work rate to get back. His contest work and pressure inside 50 is superior to Sonny. Walters has more flair to his game but Berry is also creative

 

[ROGS]

Where Freddy really stands out, apart from physical attributes and ball skills, is when he gets involved in transition through the middle section of the ground. Almost invariably good things happen, especially when he kicks it.
His role in the team is generally that of high half forward, typically low possession role according to the experts. Maybe his role needs redesigning by the coaches.
When I watched his brother play a few games at Port he seemed to be assigned to patrol a central area between the centre circle and the defensive arc. Didn’t last long. Either not good enough or coaches decided position on ground not producing enough positive results.
As Freddy is a far superior player compared to his brother he might be able to make it work for us.

Great post, i wonder if we gave him say 5 mins each quarter in for the centre bounce downs what a difference pace and kicking skills coming out of the middle would make (for me he needs to be challanged to stay in the game for longer)

 

[Chris25]

People comparing Berry to Billings make absolutely no sense to me...

The best comparison for me would probably be Brent Daniels from GWS.

 

[Joao]

The best comparison for me would probably be Brent Daniels from GWS.

 

[Alfonz]

People comparing Berry to Billings make absolutely no sense to me.. They have a similar smooth looking kicking technique and running style but thats it

I've watched Berry all year and he plays with a real intensity to hunt the ball at ground level in the forward line and to pressure the opposition. It's a massive strength of his

I've tried to think of a player comparison for a while and I actually think prime Michael Walters is the closest to the way he plays. Elite skills, both goal kicking and field kicking. Great sidestep and agility. He's fast but not elite top end speed. Really good overhead for his size, and has the ability to play deep at FF for periods as a lead up target just like Sonny did in his prime. Has shown the ability to pinch hit in the midfield, or even push up high with a really good work rate to get back. His contest work and pressure inside 50 is superior to Sonny. Walters has more flair to his game but Berry is also creative

I made the comparison and I stand by it. Left footers. Similar height. Similar athleticism. Similar kicking. Average a couple of goals a game as juniors. Similar performances in the national champs and both named in the AA team as a starting forward. Possible midfield rotation, but will start as a forward. Ranked fairly highly as a junior. You say Berry is good overhead for his size, and that's also what they said about Billings as a junior. How it can make no sense when there are so many similarities?

Perhaps you are thinking of Billings the dud senior footballer and not believing that Berry could also turn out that way? I'm not saying Berry will turn out the same, just that it is a possibility and I'd be wary drafting a small forward without top end speed, x-factor and tricks. There are exceptions of course (e.g. Walters is not super quick, Dylan Moore another one).

For what it's worth, some pre-season testing results are being posted on the draft board. Berry has a decent standing vertical jump of 70cm. But his 3.026s for the 20m, and 8.479s for the agility are not super impressive for a small forward. Sometimes these numbers don't translate to what is evident on the field, but the super fast/agile guys are closer to 2.9 and 8 seconds. The comparison with Brent Daniels ... he recorded 2.95 and 8.11 seconds, significantly quicker and more agile, and with a much stockier build and much shorter height.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I made the comparison and I stand by it. Left footers. Similar height. Similar athleticism. Similar kicking. Average a couple of goals a game as juniors. Similar performances in the national champs and both named in the AA team as a starting forward. Possible midfield rotation, but will start as a forward. Ranked fairly highly as a junior. You say Berry is good overhead for his size, and that's also what they said about Billings as a junior. How it can make no sense when there are so many similarities?

Perhaps you are thinking of Billings the dud senior footballer and not believing that Berry could also turn out that way? I'm not saying Berry will turn out the same, just that it is a possibility and I'd be wary drafting a small forward without top end speed, x-factor and tricks. There are exceptions of course (e.g. Walters is not super quick, Dylan Moore another one).

For what it's worth, some pre-season testing results are being posted on the draft board. Berry has a decent standing vertical jump of 70cm. But his 3.026s for the 20m, and 8.479s for the agility are not super impressive for a small forward. Sometimes these numbers don't translate to what is evident on the field, but the super fast/agile guys are closer to 2.9 and 8 seconds. The comparison with Brent Daniels ... he recorded 2.95 and 8.11 seconds, significantly quicker and more agile, and with a much stockier build and much shorter height.

Great summary.

Would be really good to have the data for all people drafted over the last 5-10 years, so you could compare them.

Suddenly, I have big concerns about him. Not express, outside players can struggle to get the ball, or will always be under pressure in the AFL.

Now I can see why players rise, or fall based on the AFL Combine data.



Joe Berry
180.1cm, 72.5kg
Vertical (both): 70cm
Vertical L: 88cm
Vertical R: 86cm
5m: 1.165
10m: 1.843
20m: 3.026
Agility: 8.479
Yo-yo: 720

For comparison, here is Liam Henry's stats, so he about the same as Henry (Slightly quicker sprint, slower agility) and I always thought Henry lacked speed for a small forward.

Competitive Advantage: Speed and ball use.
Combine Results (State testing): Speed - 3.06sec 20m sprint, Agility - 8.20sec, Yo-yo - level 20.6.
For some perspective.

Agility​

Lance Collard (Subiaco/North Beach) - 8.157 seconds
Koltyn Tholstrup (Subiaco/Newtown Condingup) - 8.194
Angus Hastie (Geelong Falcons/Geelong West Giants) - 8.204
Bodie Ryan (Glenelg/Brighton) - 8.208
Zane Zakostelsky (Claremont/North Beach) - 8.233
Ashton Moir (Glenelg/Plympton) - 8.244
Reece Torrent (Peel Thunder/Halls Head) - 8.260
Darcy Wilson (Murray Bushrangers/Wangaratta Rovers) - 8.263
Aiden O’Driscoll (Perth/Northam Saints) - 8.302
Nate Caddy (Northern Knights/Yarrambat) - 8.331

20m sprint​

Aiden O’Driscoll (Perth/Northam Saints) - 2.871 seconds
Will Graham (Gold Coast Suns Academy/Palm Beach Currumbin) - 2.915
Caleb Windsor (Eastern Ranges/South Belgrave) - 2.916
Lance Collard (Subiaco/North Beach) - 2.923
Kane McAuliffe (North Adelaide/Central Augusta) - 2.930
Zane Zakostelsky (Claremont/North Beach) - 2.954
Phoenix Gothard (Murray Bushrangers/Albury) - 2.963
Taylor Goad (South Adelaide/Willunga) - 2.965
Eion McElholm (Ireland) - 2.993
Harry DeMattia (Dandenong Stingrays/Edithvale-Aspendale) - 2.996

 

[go_the_dockers]

It would be an interesting discussion to know the physical stats required to make it as a small forward?

Speed, Agility, Leap, Strength, Reading of play, Toughness

I remember Matt Lloyd talking about Parker, and how even though he did not test well at the AFL combine, he ready the ball so well he made up for it. FYI - we were going to draft him if slipped a few more picks

Toby Greene

4

Toby Greene

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.7

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

10.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.2

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.0

2star

G

2.3

5star

D

26.6

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

14.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

3.6

5star

G

0.0

1star

is not super quick, but he makes up for it by reading the play, great skills, toughness. Same with Walters.

Kicking of both feet must help, if you are a bit slow as well.

Berry does look very tough, and can kick of both feet so they will make up for his lack of top end pace to some extent.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Here are some stats going back to 2019 of players I know in the top 10 of that year.

I never rated Thomson Dow as agile. Darcy Jones is athletic freak. If you can combine his athletic profile, with clean hands you have a magic combo. No idea how he slid so far.

Isiah Winder would be a good get for us, and would add some pace to our side. Jones and Allan would be good targets for us I think .

Agility test

8.255

Edward Allan

7.702

Darcy Jones

8.061

Thomson Dow

7.940

Hayden Young

8.061

Matt Johnson

8.063

Jesse Motlop

8.12	Nathan O'Driscoll

8.18	Isiah Winder

20m Sprint times

2.928

Reuben Ginbey

2.912

Darcy Jones

2.814

Edward Allan

2.966

Jeremy Sharp

2.801

Max Holmes

2.873

Isiah Winder

 

[nurries]

Here are some stats going back to 2019 of players I know in the top 10 of that year.

I never rated Thomson Dow as agile. Darcy Jones is athletic freak. If you can combine his athletic profile, with clean hands you have a magic combo. No idea how he slid so far.

Isiah Winder would be a good get for us, and would add some pace to our side. Jones and Allan would be good targets for us I think .

Agility test

8.255

Edward Allan

7.702

Darcy Jones

8.061

Thomson Dow

7.940

Hayden Young

8.061

Matt Johnson

8.063

Jesse Motlop

8.12	Nathan O'Driscoll

8.18	Isiah Winder

20m Sprint times

2.928

Reuben Ginbey

2.912

Darcy Jones

2.814

Edward Allan

2.966

Jeremy Sharp

2.801

Max Holmes

2.873

Isiah Winder

Darcy Jones reminds me of a shorter Stephen Hill

 

[Wallsy78]

I made the comparison and I stand by it. Left footers. Similar height. Similar athleticism. Similar kicking. Average a couple of goals a game as juniors. Similar performances in the national champs and both named in the AA team as a starting forward. Possible midfield rotation, but will start as a forward. Ranked fairly highly as a junior. You say Berry is good overhead for his size, and that's also what they said about Billings as a junior. How it can make no sense when there are so many similarities?

Perhaps you are thinking of Billings the dud senior footballer and not believing that Berry could also turn out that way? I'm not saying Berry will turn out the same, just that it is a possibility and I'd be wary drafting a small forward without top end speed, x-factor and tricks. There are exceptions of course (e.g. Walters is not super quick, Dylan Moore another one).

For what it's worth, some pre-season testing results are being posted on the draft board. Berry has a decent standing vertical jump of 70cm. But his 3.026s for the 20m, and 8.479s for the agility are not super impressive for a small forward. Sometimes these numbers don't translate to what is evident on the field, but the super fast/agile guys are closer to 2.9 and 8 seconds. The comparison with Brent Daniels ... he recorded 2.95 and 8.11 seconds, significantly quicker and more agile, and with a much stockier build and much shorter height.

Perhaps I misunderstood when I thought you compared him to Billings the AFL footballer. His athletic profile and some of his traits at U18 is very comparable. However they did not play the same position and are different prospects imo. Billings played more high hf and midfield and kicked 8 goals from 6 games in TAC cup and U18 champs in his draft year. Berry has kicked bags all year as a genuine deep small forward and elite pressure player

I disagree with the philosophy of being turned off a player because he reminds you of another player. Players bust for all different reasons. Billings didnt turn out because he is one of the softest players in the comp and he has zero competitiveness. Berry looks very strong in that department

It's a very valid question to raise with speed/agility for a small forward. Interesting numbers I hadn't seen those before thanks for sharing. I honestly think 3.026s is a lot faster than we think. The biggest issue with the AFL combine is they only publish the top 10 performers. If we see the players in that 3-3.05s mark I think it would help our perception. Eg Kozzy Pickett was in the Jeremy sharp draft posted above but didn't make it, reportedly he did 3 seconds and he is electric at AFL level. In last year's list Nick Watson also didn't make it so he is 3 seconds+ and he looks very fast at AFL level to me

 

[go_the_dockers]

Perhaps I misunderstood when I thought you compared him to Billings the AFL footballer. His athletic profile and some of his traits at U18 is very comparable. However they did not play the same position and are different prospects imo. Billings played more high hf and midfield and kicked 8 goals from 6 games in TAC cup and U18 champs in his draft year. Berry has kicked bags all year as a genuine deep small forward and elite pressure player

I disagree with the philosophy of being turned off a player because he reminds you of another player. Players bust for all different reasons. Billings didnt turn out because he is one of the softest players in the comp and he has zero competitiveness. Berry looks very strong in that department

It's a very valid question to raise with speed/agility for a small forward. Interesting numbers I hadn't seen those before thanks for sharing. I honestly think 3.026s is a lot faster than we think. The biggest issue with the AFL combine is they only publish the top 10 performers. If we see the players in that 3-3.05s mark I think it would help our perception. Eg Kozzy Pickett was in the Jeremy sharp draft posted above but didn't make it, reportedly he did 3 seconds and he is electric at AFL level. In last year's list Nick Watson also didn't make it so he is 3 seconds+ and he looks very fast at AFL level to me

Great post. Puts things in perspective. So hard making calls, with out know all the info. Are players just missing the top 10, or way down. Do they have good top end pace, to make up for a slow start?



Kozzie has very good top end speed. Maybe a fraction slow off the mark, or a bit slow reacting on the day.

I wish they had a 100m sprint as well, so you could see there top end pace (Plus share all the stats)

 

[noobermensch]

After this performance on the weekend he finally got a call up to play for the senior WAFL West Perth team and it only took Kayle dominating the comp for weeks on end. In this game he was again best on ground, getting shaded in the hit outs but consistently causing damage post stoppage with his power and skills on the spread. The big thing we've been seeing more often in recent weeks is his contested marking with him regularly pulling down a couple of impressive plucks each week now.

We await this weekends game now with baited breath. A strong debut WAFL performance as a key forward and Kayle might fly up draft boards. There are several teams with top 10 picks that are hungry for a key forward and there isn't much Kayle can't do.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

After this performance on the weekend he finally got a call up to play for the senior WAFL West Perth team and it only took Kayle dominating the comp for weeks on end. In this game he was again best on ground, getting shaded in the hit outs but consistently causing damage post stoppage with his power and skills on the spread. The big thing we've been seeing more often in recent weeks is his contested marking with him regularly pulling down a couple of impressive plucks each week now.

We await this weekends game now with baited breath. A strong debut WAFL performance as a key forward and Kayle might fly up draft boards. There are several teams with top 10 picks that are hungry for a key forward and there isn't much Kayle can't do.

Looking at his build & the way he moves I presume his dad is Chris Gerreyn who started at Claremont, drafted by Hawthorn & then finished at East Perth?

 

[wakojako]

After this performance on the weekend he finally got a call up to play for the senior WAFL West Perth team and it only took Kayle dominating the comp for weeks on end. In this game he was again best on ground, getting shaded in the hit outs but consistently causing damage post stoppage with his power and skills on the spread. The big thing we've been seeing more often in recent weeks is his contested marking with him regularly pulling down a couple of impressive plucks each week now.

We await this weekends game now with baited breath. A strong debut WAFL performance as a key forward and Kayle might fly up draft boards. There are several teams with top 10 picks that are hungry for a key forward and there isn't much Kayle can't do.

If we are losing Knobel I would consider Gerreyn, especially if we get Bolton because we won't really need another small forward.

 

[go_the_dockers]

If we are losing Knobel I would consider Gerreyn, especially if we get Bolton because we won't really need another small forward.

Is Bolton a small forward, or a high half forward?

I think ideally, he plays a bit higher and uses his pace and you have another small forward to rove the ball.

I really think we have room for 2 players

 

[pK75]

If we are losing Knobel I would consider Gerreyn, especially if we get Bolton because we won't really need another small forward.

Wait, we’re losing knobel now, what have I missed?

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Is Bolton a small forward, or a high half forward?

I think ideally, he plays a bit higher and uses his pace and you have another small forward to rove the ball.

I really think we have room for 2 players

In terms of list spots we're relatively stacked for small/mediums. You'd want the ratio to be about 2 list spots per on-field position, though there are exceptions. On our current list:

• We probably have 1 key back too many (6 for 2 seniors spots, but hopefully we move to a new structure there where Draper Cox and Pearce all play together)
• Relatively light on general defenders (8 for 5 seniors spots, though Ryan plays on 3rd talls so maybe should count as in between. Should get something there as Aish, Wagner and Worner isn't a group I'm confident in, but playing Draper as a 3rd back can help).
• Fairly stacked for rucks (3 for 1 senior spot, counting Jackson as a primary key fwd). Knobel shouldn't be stuck playing Reserves most weeks.
• Fairly light on midfielders (inside + outside) on paper (11 for 7 senior spots), but we play an extra there and mids are usually versatile enough. Should probably get something there, particularly of the outside mid variety. However, there's a couple in other positions who can play midfield positions, so not a pressing concern.
• Too many key fwds (8 for 3 senior spots, including Jackson). A product of long-term injuries + the fact it's been an area we've been searching for something for a long time. Now that we've found it, should drop that down.
• About the right number of general fwds (9 for 4 senior spots).

But then you look at those 9: Freddy, Sturt, Switta, Walters, Banfield (his current position but arguably not his best), Emmett, Simpson, Delean, Williams. It's not a group you'd have a lot of faith in. Freddy, Switta and Sturt are good enough (though for various reasons can all be frustrating), Walters is in the ninth inning of his career, Banfield is a nice utility, Williams you'd think gets delisted, Simpson has something but may be destined for more up-the-ground positions, and Delean and Emmett have big question marks (if you could combine the 2 into 1 player you'd have the answer).

Plus you look at that group, and it seriously lacks a crumbing goalscoring presence. With that group, could see us doing what we've done in various other positions (especially key fwd) in recent years: scattergun approach. Have a disproportionately high # of them on the list and see which ones work and which ones don't.

 

[go_the_dockers]

In terms of list spots we're relatively stacked for small/mediums. You'd want the ratio to be about 2 list spots per on-field position, though there are exceptions. On our current list:

• We probably have 1 key back too many (6 for 2 seniors spots, but hopefully we move to a new structure there where Draper Cox and Pearce all play together)
• Relatively light on general defenders (8 for 5 seniors spots, though Ryan plays on 3rd talls so maybe should count as in between. Should get something there as Aish, Wagner and Worner isn't a group I'm confident in, but playing Draper as a 3rd back can help).
• Fairly stacked for rucks (3 for 1 senior spot, counting Jackson as a primary key fwd). Knobel shouldn't be stuck playing Reserves most weeks.
• Fairly light on midfielders (inside + outside) on paper (11 for 7 senior spots), but we play an extra there and mids are usually versatile enough. Should probably get something there, particularly of the outside mid variety. However, there's a couple in other positions who can play midfield positions, so not a pressing concern.
• Too many key fwds (8 for 3 senior spots, including Jackson). A product of long-term injuries + the fact it's been an area we've been searching for something for a long time. Now that we've found it, should drop that down.
• About the right number of general fwds (9 for 4 senior spots).

But then you look at those 9: Freddy, Sturt, Switta, Walters, Banfield (his current position but arguably not his best), Emmett, Simpson, Delean, Williams. It's not a group you'd have a lot of faith in. Freddy, Switta and Sturt are good enough (though for various reasons can all be frustrating), Walters is in the ninth inning of his career, Banfield is a nice utility, Williams you'd think gets delisted, Simpson has something but may be destined for more up-the-ground positions, and Delean and Emmett have big question marks (if you could combine the 2 into 1 player you'd have the answer).

Plus you look at that group, and it seriously lacks a crumbing goalscoring presence. With that group, could see us doing what we've done in various other positions (especially key fwd) in recent years: scattergun approach. Have a disproportionately high # of them on the list and see which ones work and which ones don't.

Yeah, agree. we lack quality in forward half non key position players.

The only natural crumber is maybe dealan, who has been playing 2nds for peel

One good genuine forward pockets would help a lot

Switta, Freddy, Banfield, Simpson all borderline miss. Need more natural forwards.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Looking at his build & the way he moves I presume his dad is Chris Gerreyn who started at Claremont, drafted by Hawthorn & then finished at East Perth?

His old man was a copper and had a massive arse