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Snuffaluphagus
Brownlow Medallist
- Sep 10, 2015
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. 2024 Young Talent Time (Drafting)
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It is a furphy, we don't actually pick at 17 because some of those ahead of us are not 'picks', they are pre-determined in the first round.
Ah but that's where I disagree.
I understand the position, that talent is available to you so you still get, for example, the fourteenth best available talent.
But because of rule changes the talent that is available changes, so it still represents what your priority was compared to other teams, which is all the pick number represents anyways.
If you were to take it to extremes and the top 10 rated players were all linked to other teams, and you faithfully bid in order of your talent list, you didn't get the "best" player when you choose at 11 using your original pick 1.
You get your 11th choice.
Now there's a lot of distortion in how different teams or don't bid, so it isn't that clear cut, but pretending it means absolutely nothing doesn't make sense to me.
Snuffaluphagus
Brownlow Medallist
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Nah, I get this. People arguing it doesnt matter in trades are flat out wrong IMO and like you, I've had this discussion ad nauseum. To prove mine (and your) point, David Walls literally said on radio they wanted a future pick knowing how far the Pies pick will fall for Schultz. So that's from a list managers mouth (after a trade is done, so less bullshit).
Once trade period is over though, yes, doesnt matter anymore, those players basically dont exist. Interestingly, I can see a situation if the new bid points is actually effective where they are still counted.
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The chart you have done makes sense.
I agree and didn’t bother arguing the point with posters but the list managers absolutely consider net point value in trades and also anticipated final draft pick landing after bids etc.
I agree and didn’t bother arguing the point with posters but the list managers absolutely consider net point value in trades and also anticipated final draft pick landing after bids etc.
Toner would be a good get for our last pick.
The Narre Warren product had never been part of a representative program when he joined the Dandenong Stingrays mid-year as an over-age player, and now he appears destined to be drafted.
Toner, who turned 19 last week, received the call-up to the Stingrays after booting 50 goals in 13 senior games with Narre Warren in the Outer East league, also slotting 53 majors in 19 matches at under-19 level for them last season.
The exciting forward has been linked to several clubs – particularly Fremantle and GWS – after turning heads with five goals in just his second game for the Stingrays against the Eastern Ranges.
He kicked 10 goals in his first three games in the Coates Talent League before suffering a wrist injury in his fourth appearance.
Toner tested at the state combine this month and showed significant improvement in his 2km time trial and ran an impressive agility test of 8.27 seconds.
Clubs are excited by Toner’s upside as an untapped talent who has only spent half a year in the elite talent pathway, with several possible suitors in the back-half of the draft.
Sam Toner has rapidly emerged as an unlikely draft prospect from Narre Warren. Picture: Josh Chadwick
Dandenong Stingrays key defender Noah Mraz believes clubs should take a punt on him.
“Crazy, isn’t it. Cool story. Local player, over-ager too and just picked up and just came in and didn’t miss a beat,” Mraz said.
“He’s a great player, great bloke too. Just works real hard as well and you can see, don’t have a big sample size on him but you know what you’ve seen hasn’t been bad.
“I think if someone takes a chance on him I don’t think they’d be disappointed. I think he’s a great player too.”
Stingrays co-captain Cooper Hynes, a potential first-round prospect himself has also enjoyed watching his rise from obscurity.
“He came in about halfway through the year and trained with us and we are like, ‘who is this new bloke?’ This over-ager, didn’t know what to think of him,” Hynes said.
“Then he sort of debuted at Seaford, had some really good moments and was really good. And then the next week against Eastern he kicked five, sort of burst onto the scene a bit. He’s got some tricks.”
The Stingrays have another over-age player who could also be taken as a later draft selection or rookie in Riak Andrew, the younger brother of Gold Coast excitement machine Mac.
Melbourne has first dibs on Andrew as a member of its Next Generation Academy but the Demons only has picks five and nine in this year’s draft.
Andrew is seven centimetres shorter than Mac at 194cm, but has impressed with his lockdown roles this year as a key defender.
LOCAL FOOTY BOLTER’S ‘CRAZY’ RISE FROM OBSCURITY
Alix Tauru may be the biggest bolter of this year’s draft class, but no prospect has come from further back than local footy smokey Sam Toner.The Narre Warren product had never been part of a representative program when he joined the Dandenong Stingrays mid-year as an over-age player, and now he appears destined to be drafted.
Toner, who turned 19 last week, received the call-up to the Stingrays after booting 50 goals in 13 senior games with Narre Warren in the Outer East league, also slotting 53 majors in 19 matches at under-19 level for them last season.
The exciting forward has been linked to several clubs – particularly Fremantle and GWS – after turning heads with five goals in just his second game for the Stingrays against the Eastern Ranges.
He kicked 10 goals in his first three games in the Coates Talent League before suffering a wrist injury in his fourth appearance.
Toner tested at the state combine this month and showed significant improvement in his 2km time trial and ran an impressive agility test of 8.27 seconds.
Clubs are excited by Toner’s upside as an untapped talent who has only spent half a year in the elite talent pathway, with several possible suitors in the back-half of the draft.
Sam Toner has rapidly emerged as an unlikely draft prospect from Narre Warren. Picture: Josh Chadwick
Dandenong Stingrays key defender Noah Mraz believes clubs should take a punt on him.
“Crazy, isn’t it. Cool story. Local player, over-ager too and just picked up and just came in and didn’t miss a beat,” Mraz said.
“He’s a great player, great bloke too. Just works real hard as well and you can see, don’t have a big sample size on him but you know what you’ve seen hasn’t been bad.
“I think if someone takes a chance on him I don’t think they’d be disappointed. I think he’s a great player too.”
Stingrays co-captain Cooper Hynes, a potential first-round prospect himself has also enjoyed watching his rise from obscurity.
“He came in about halfway through the year and trained with us and we are like, ‘who is this new bloke?’ This over-ager, didn’t know what to think of him,” Hynes said.
“Then he sort of debuted at Seaford, had some really good moments and was really good. And then the next week against Eastern he kicked five, sort of burst onto the scene a bit. He’s got some tricks.”
The Stingrays have another over-age player who could also be taken as a later draft selection or rookie in Riak Andrew, the younger brother of Gold Coast excitement machine Mac.
Melbourne has first dibs on Andrew as a member of its Next Generation Academy but the Demons only has picks five and nine in this year’s draft.
Andrew is seven centimetres shorter than Mac at 194cm, but has impressed with his lockdown roles this year as a key defender.
Narkle is back on
What sort of player is Toner? Small forward?
Stinky Lomax
Club Legend
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Sam Toner
State: Victoria Country
State League Club: Dandenong Stingrays
Community Club: Narre Warren
Date of Birth: 23/10/2005
Height: 184cm
Medium forward who was approved as an overage player for the Dandenong Stingrays later in the year after starring for Narre Warren at senior level, where he kicked 50 goals. Had an immediate impact for the Stingrays, kicking five goals against the Eastern Ranges in Round 16 in his second match before a broken wrist interrupted his season. Only played in four matches in the Coates Talent League but did enough to impress the scouts. Has good speed, is agile and marks strongly one-on-one, as well as having an innate goal sense. Tested soundly at the state Draft Combine in Melbourne, particularly in the 20m sprint (3.05 seconds) and agility test (8.27 seconds).
sounds like it
Sam Toner
State: Victoria Country
State League Club: Dandenong Stingrays
Community Club: Narre Warren
Date of Birth: 23/10/2005
Height: 184cm
Medium forward who was approved as an overage player for the Dandenong Stingrays later in the year after starring for Narre Warren at senior level, where he kicked 50 goals. Had an immediate impact for the Stingrays, kicking five goals against the Eastern Ranges in Round 16 in his second match before a broken wrist interrupted his season. Only played in four matches in the Coates Talent League but did enough to impress the scouts. Has good speed, is agile and marks strongly one-on-one, as well as having an innate goal sense. Tested soundly at the state Draft Combine in Melbourne, particularly in the 20m sprint (3.05 seconds) and agility test (8.27 seconds).
People who disregard the draft positions sliding back due to FS and NGA academies are taking a very simplistic and flawed view. Snuffaluphagus and malpaso are absolutely correct. The free agency compensation also plays a role in this.
If a team slides from pick 15 to pick 25, in simple terms they are getting the 25th best player in the overall talent pool instead of the 15th. I know that’s an extreme example but it’s not impossible.
One of the things that actually wrong to say is that teams like gold coast and Brisbane are getting free hits. Or Collingwood with their father sons in the first round.
They are not free hits!!!
Somebody has to pay for them - that somebody is the rest of the competition that each gives up a little bit of draft capital. That point is always lost in these debates.
The problem is other aspects of the AFL system remain constant whilst the relative level of talent you obtain via the draft is diluted.
Therefore us only getting the 17th most talented player on draft night instead of the 14th is a genuine price that we have to pay in the overall scheme of things.
If a team slides from pick 15 to pick 25, in simple terms they are getting the 25th best player in the overall talent pool instead of the 15th. I know that’s an extreme example but it’s not impossible.
One of the things that actually wrong to say is that teams like gold coast and Brisbane are getting free hits. Or Collingwood with their father sons in the first round.
They are not free hits!!!
Somebody has to pay for them - that somebody is the rest of the competition that each gives up a little bit of draft capital. That point is always lost in these debates.
The problem is other aspects of the AFL system remain constant whilst the relative level of talent you obtain via the draft is diluted.
- there is still only one premiership that can be won each year
- there is still only 22 players each year selected for AA honours
- there are still only 18 clubs B&F awards handed out each year.
Therefore us only getting the 17th most talented player on draft night instead of the 14th is a genuine price that we have to pay in the overall scheme of things.
malpaso was arguing the opposite
1st round picks are being massively downgraded with all these compensation picks, father-sons, academies. From next it’ll be even worse.
The first round last year went to pick 29 (?). This year will be similar. From next year a late first round pick will likely be in the 30s.
It’s disgusting and will stop clubs from rebuilding successfully.
It will become near impossible for clubs outside of Victoria or the northern academies to win a flag.
The first round last year went to pick 29 (?). This year will be similar. From next year a late first round pick will likely be in the 30s.
It’s disgusting and will stop clubs from rebuilding successfully.
It will become near impossible for clubs outside of Victoria or the northern academies to win a flag.
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so am i right in saying we are swapping out Emmett for Narkle then in terms of list spots, leaving us just the 3 in the draft?
I don't remember seeing Narkle play. Mid/forward role I assume as experienced depth?
I don't remember seeing Narkle play. Mid/forward role I assume as experienced depth?
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Why will it get worse next year? Are there going to be more academy players? Hopefully with the reduced points values, clubs will need to hang onto better picks to match bids with.
So, thinking about our greatest list need (after small forward) in the context of our recent delistings, surely we are in the market for another tall forward at pick 30? But not just any tall forward, I’m thinking a hulking, stay-at-home, clunk everything type. Probably 198/199cm who is 90% forward 10% ruck.
Which one of Treacy, Amiss or Jackson would he be replacing in the team though?
Then we also have Sturt at 190cm as a 4th tall/hybrid
Voss is just about as good as you can get for a backup tall, not quite good enough to be best 22 elsewhere but good enough to fill a role with injury
Just reckon we are pretty well stocked in that area
Stretching it to call Sturt a '4th tall/hybrid'.
I think he has value if we are playing 2 talls because a kpd is the wrong matchup for him. He's almost a 4th small hybrid. I'm in no way having a crack at him. Indeed it's his point of difference.
Dockernut is putting a thinly veiled stamp of approval on recruiting Gerreyn I suspect, and I don't mind the idea either. We've lived through too many seasons with an understocked forward line. We are now as fully primed as we can be, but a black hole looms for us if Darcy doesn't work out.
I've found the treatment of Knobel a little puzzling, and I haven't seen anything to get excited about with Reidy as immediate cover. And I don't want to judge Voss harshly but his ceiling looks a bit like handy depth.
If our depth is healthy (which it is) I am fine with selecting a difference maker like Gerreyn in the second round.
2nd pick will be fine, especially if we have got a slider or Berry squared away.
I feel like we need another quality small forward so we can play 2 talls, Sturt & all smalls if need arises as well. We will have pace to burn so going small is going to stretch defences as much as tall.
I would really love it if we had the weapons to choose to go small or tall in the forward line. Sturt is the key to that.
Bolton Treacy Frederick
Sturt Amiss Switkowski/Walters/Simpson
I don't mind that at all. It would be as fast as any forward line going around.
I reckon Sturt plays small but he is 190cm so thats the height of a 4th tall hence the 4th tall hybrid
He should be beating smaller players aerially and beating taller players on the ground.
