20th AFL Team

[Teen Wolf]

I know all this. What I don't know is why you would post this as it backs up by statements about smaller Melbourne AFL clubs having to focus on their future environment.

You must have forgotten it when spouting nonsense about small Melbourne clubs surviving due to derbies. To reiterate: Marvel Stadium arrangements mean those fixtures provide little more financial support than games vs non-Vic teams--this contradicts your claim, regardless of how many times you try the "nah but dat backs up wot i said m8" card.

Nothing is going to change about the way clubs (including GWS and Gold Coast) contemplate selling home games in the future, nor does it need to. There is quite a bit of delusion about that in both this thread and in the "secondary markets" thread.

 

[Walshawk]

Manuka oval is sold out for Giants v Hawks this weekend.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Manuka oval is sold out for Giants v Hawks this weekend.

Great to hear. Hawthorn was always the most likely game to sell out, but that makes it all three games sold out for the year.

Three games clearly isn't enough for Canberra.

Will also help in the justification for the Manuka expansion.

 

[RedV3x]

You must have forgotten it when spouting nonsense about small Melbourne clubs surviving due to derbies.

Look, if you cannot see that Melbourne clubs do in fact have lots more derbies and therefore lots more opportunities to increase revenue then you are lost cause.

Marvel Stadium arrangements

You brought up this subject as a diversionary tactic and it only backs what i say in that the smaller Melbourne clubs have to look closely at their future environment.

Nothing is going to change about the way clubs (including GWS and Gold Coast) contemplate selling home games in the future, nor does it need to.

Marvel and now new clubs - what has this to do with Melbourne AFL derbies ?

There is quite a bit of delusion about that in both this thread and in the "secondary markets" thread.Marvel and now new clubs - what has this to do with Melbourne AFL derbies ?

Marvel, new clubs and now "secondary markets" - what has this to do with Melbourne AFL derbies ?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Marvel, new clubs and now "secondary markets" - what has this to do with Melbourne AFL derbies ?

That's the way. Insert irrelevant jibberish about Melbourne clubs into a thread about a possible 20th team, then accuse others of going off topic.

 

[RedV3x]

That's the way. Insert irrelevant jibberish

If I had any positive feelings about N.M. you've probably crushed them.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Huh ?

Queensland | Breaking News and Headlines | Brisbane Times

The latest Queensland breaking news, comment and analysis from the Brisbane Times covering Brisbane and around the State

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

perth-to-leapfrog-brisbane-as-third-largest-city-in-australia-20150409-1mhjcg.html

The article that I referenced used ABS data projections and it was written in 2023, while yours was written in 2015. Therefore, I can only deduce that in the time between both articles being written, Perth’s population growth projections have slowed in relation to Brisbane. Always makes sense to go with the more recent source.

 

[RedV3x]

The article that I referenced used ABS data projections and it was written in 2023, while yours was written in 2015. Therefore, I can only deduce that in the time between both articles being written, Perth’s population growth projections have slowed in relation to Brisbane. Always makes sense to go with the more recent source.

Hundreds of new arrivals a day make Perth the fastest-growing capital city

A 3.6 per cent jump in 2022-23 marks the biggest annual change to the state’s population, with more than 2.3 million people now calling Perth home.

www.watoday.com.au

While Brisbane was the fastest growing capital city in 2021‑22, Perth was the fastest growing capital city over the previous three years. Adelaide and Melbourne both grew by 1.1 per cent, driven by net overseas migration.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Redv3x V teen wolf, I'll get the popcorn, this will go for a while !

The thread is much more pleasant if you have both of them on ignore.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Great to hear. Hawthorn was always the most likely game to sell out, but that makes it all three games sold out for the year.

Three games clearly isn't enough for Canberra.

Will also help in the justification for the Manuka expansion.

Canberra should have its own team. Not a team flown in from Sydney 3 times a year.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

This thread is going to explode when the AFL announces NT as the 20th license (given their incompetence)

(Note - Canberra / ACT region bid would be my preference as the more sustainable option)

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Canberra should have its own team. Not a team flown in from Sydney 3 times a year.

Giants are Canberra’s AFL team, not just a “team flown in from Sydney 3 times a year”. The Giants have been involved in Canberra since the club’s inception, play AFLW games as well as pre-season games, have many players from our region playing in the club and at least 6000 club members from the region. Also it has established strong roots and connections in Canberra, and have introduced many kids to AFL - my daughter and her friends are passionate Giants due to the Giants coming to her school when they had their community camps here.

A GIANT History in Canberra

We take a look back at the GIANTS’ storied history in Canberra as we prepare to celebrate 100 years of Manuka Oval against the Hawks on Sunday.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[MelbourneGWS]

This thread is going to explode when the AFL announces NT as the 20th license (given their incompetence)

(Note - Canberra / ACT region bid would be my preference as the more sustainable option)

Whilst I think WA3 and Canberra are better team 20 candidates than Darwin, I unfortunately fear that you may be right about NT being team 20. If Albo is giving $600 million to PNG for a NRL team, there will be considerable pressure for him to fund a NT team especially given his passion for indigenous issues. All objective metrics will be disregarded due to the “feel good” factor, and general community and media hype and support that a NT Team 20 decision would generate - especially if the funding shortfall is being addressed by the commonwealth government.

 

[Canberra Pear]

This thread is going to explode when the AFL announces NT as the 20th license (given their incompetence)

(Note - Canberra / ACT region bid would be my preference as the more sustainable option)

Tbh, I wouldn't be that mad if the NT got it. There'd clearly be a lot of government investment that the AFL would have to pull off, so if they manage it, very impressive.

I'd be more mad if Perth got it. There's no discernible reason for WA3 to go ahead of Canberra other than worries about the Giants. And I'd be pretty mad if that happened.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Whilst I think WA3 and Canberra are better team 20 candidates than Darwin, I unfortunately fear that you may be right about NT being team 20. If Albo is giving $600 million to PNG for a NRL team, there will be considerable pressure for him to fund a NT team especially given his passion for indigenous issues. All objective metrics will be disregarded due to the “feel good” factor, and general community and media hype and support that a NT Team 20 decision would generate - especially if the funding shortfall is being addressed by the commonwealth government.

Tbh, I wouldn't be that mad if the NT got it. There'd clearly be a lot of government investment that the AFL would have to pull off, so if they manage it, very impressive.

I'd be more mad if Perth got it. There's no discernible reason for WA3 to go ahead of Canberra other than worries about the Giants. And I'd be pretty mad if that happened.

Agree with that and there would still be a lot of unanswered questions that are in play like what would happen with the funding if a change of government occurs while the formation of the club. Mind you, a NT team has more potential and socio-economic benefits attached to it than any other bid but it's a massive risk to take especially with the AFL still funding bucketloads to GC & GWS.

Still think if NT wants a presence in the AFL, a joint-venture with a smaller Victorian club (+ NT academy) would be far more financially viable than a standalone team. As previously mentioned, if North decided to accept the offer as the "Northern Kangaroos", you could get them to play 3 home games up there initially and slowly increase the number til NT is ready to host the majority of matches there (8/9 NT - 3/4 VIC) and still have a presence for Melbourne supporters.

With that proposal, you can then have Canberra / ACT has the 20th team and then every state & territory would have a team in the competition/s with 20 teams attached (10.5 Interstate / 9.5 Victorian).

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Agree with that and there would still be a lot of unanswered questions that are in play like what would happen with the funding if a change of government occurs while the formation of the club. Mind you, a NT team has more potential and socio-economic benefits attached to it than any other bid but it's a massive risk to take especially with the AFL still funding bucketloads to GC & GWS.

Still think if NT wants a presence in the AFL, a joint-venture with a smaller Victorian club (+ NT academy) would be far more financially viable than a standalone team. As previously mentioned, if North decided to accept the offer as the "Northern Kangaroos", you could get them to play 3 home games up there initially and slowly increase the number til NT is ready to host the majority of matches there (8/9 NT - 3/4 VIC) and still have a presence for Melbourne supporters.

With that proposal, you can then have Canberra / ACT has the 20th team and then every state & territory would have a team in the competition/s with 20 teams (10.5 Interstate / 9.5 Victorian).

Fair points. Unfortunately, I just don’t think North members or their Board will agree to be Northern Kangaroos. From what I understand, and North members in this forum will have greater insight, North see their future in Melbourne especially with the Arden Street redevelopments, and any games moved out of Hobart will be eventually brought back to Melbourne as soon as it’s financially feasible.

Victorian clubs want to play in Victoria - even if in the short term games need to be sold to secondary markets to enable this. Even financially struggling St Kilda, didn’t want to renew their 1 game contract in the Cairns secondary market, and are looking to move some of their existing Marvel games to the MCG - presumably because this would generate a better financial return.

 

[Coolangatta]

Tbh, I wouldn't be that mad if the NT got it. There'd clearly be a lot of government investment that the AFL would have to pull off, so if they manage it, very impressive.

I'd be more mad if Perth got it. There's no discernible reason for WA3 to go ahead of Canberra other than worries about the Giants. And I'd be pretty mad if that happened.

My only concerns with NT getting the 20th licence aside from onfield performance is future expansion. If the numpties keep saying the AFL is complete and the competition is now “truly national” like we’ve been hearing, will we ever see a team 21 or 22 with the nations capital in the mix?

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Fair points. Unfortunately, I just don’t think North members or their Board will agree to be Northern Kangaroos. From what I understand, and North members in this forum will have greater insight, North see their future in Melbourne especially with the Arden Street redevelopments, and any games moved out of Hobart will be eventually brought back to Melbourne as soon as it’s financially feasible.

Victorian clubs want to play in Victoria - even if in the short term games need to be sold to secondary markets to enable this. Even financially struggling St Kilda, didn’t want to renew their 1 game contract in the Cairns secondary market, and are looking to move some of their existing Marvel games to the MCG - presumably because this would generate a better financial return.

Interesting, it's good news for North Melbourne & St.Kilda to be able to play out Victoria full-time soon and if more games are played at the MCG, chances are interstate clubs will get to play at the ground more frequently.

The problem is there are too many clubs in the Melbourne-centric region and more interstate clubs in untapped regions like ACT, NQ, NT, Newcastle, etc being created, the harder it'll be for the competition to have that many teams in one particular region. If logical prevails, 22-24 teams will be the most the competition can handle until serious consideration needs to be made IMO and maybe it's an issue for 50-60 years time mind you.

If Victorian clubs don't want to relocate or merge though, well the AFL needs to move the Grand Final around (once appropriate stadium capacities are 65-70k min) with the state being selected from the premiership winner from the previous year.

As an example but if GWS won the premiership, it would be played at SCG or Accor Stadium the following year, but if North Melbourne won, it would be played at the MCG. Obviously this proposal (as mentioned before) needs stadiums to improve capacity which won't happen for 20-30 years at min but there's another way to help interstate clubs out.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

The problem is there are too many clubs in the Melbourne-centric region and more interstate clubs in untapped regions like ACT, NQ, NT, Newcastle, etc being created, the harder it'll be for the competition to have that many teams in one particular region. If logical prevails, 22-24 teams will be the most the competition can handle until serious consideration needs to be made IMO and maybe it's an issue for 50-60 years time mind you.

True - i think that after Team 20 enters after Tasmania (ideally 2032 to start with the new media deal), there will be no more expansion for a very long time.

Regions that miss out (as well as Cairns/ Newcastle/ NZ etc) who want to have some AFL games, will need to pay ever increasing $ for the “smaller” Victorian teams to compensate them to switch some of their Melbourne matches.

 

[Coolangatta]

True - i think that after Team 20 enters after Tasmania (ideally 2032 to start with the new media deal), there will be no more expansion for a very long time.

Regions that miss out (as well as Cairns/ Newcastle/ NZ etc) who want to have some AFL games, will need to pay ever increasing $ for the “smaller” Victorian teams to compensate them to switch some of their Melbourne matches.

That’s why team 20 should be Canberra.

It’s too big to sit on the sidelines for 50 years. The Top End is not. In fact, it could do with the growth.

That said, Perth 3 and Brisbane 2 are viable options in 30 years. They’re already existing markets that will have the infrastructure so they won’t need to be developed for expansion.

So we still might see teams come in 15-20 years after Canberra hopefully comes in by 2033.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

That’s why team 20 should be Canberra.

It’s too big to sit on the sidelines for 50 years. The Top End is not. In fact, it could do with the growth.

That said, Perth 3 and Brisbane 2 are viable options in 30 years. They’re already existing markets that will have the infrastructure so they won’t need to be developed for expansion.

So we still might see teams come in 15-20 years after Canberra hopefully comes in by 2033.

I agree with you that Canberra is a better candidate for Team 20 than NT (even in combination with NQ). However, I am pessimistic about Canberra’s chances of having a team by 2032.

The ACT Government has significant budgetary concerns due to the expenditure on the Trams, has issues with NRL and other rectangular codes that want a vastly more expensive new stadium, and seem content with the current status quo agreement with the Giants. This contrasts to the active lobbying by the NT Government for Team 20, where they have a business case already and have established a formal taskforce.

In this ACT election year there has been no grassroots campaign for Canberra to have an AFL team 20, and people seem content with the status quo as evidenced by the sellout crowds for the Giants games. The main sports related grassroots campaign in Canberra was to save the beloved Canberra United female soccer team from folding, with all major Canberra media outlets publicising it and petitions formally presented to our Legislative Assembly- and even then the cash strapped Barr government reluctantly gave a one off $200k and brought forward the $250k annual payment from the future year. This only guarantees Canberra United playing at the elite female national soccer competition for a year though.

The sporting landscape is difficult already, and I find it hard to see where additional ACT government $ and sponsorships can be obtained for a full time AFL Team 20 in Canberra. Even though a decision was given for a Canberra men’s team to join the ALeague soccer, this had been formally delayed by a year due to financing difficulties. We are also pushing to get a cricket BBL franchise, and with Rugby Australia committing to Brumbies staying in Canberra till 2025, the government and private sector may need to offer additional $ to keep the Brumbies here.

 

[RedV3x]

I unfortunately fear that you may be right about NT being team 20. If Albo is giving $600 million to PNG for a NRL team, there will be considerable pressure for him to fund a NT team especially given his passion for indigenous issues. All objective metrics will be disregarded due to the “feel good” factor, and general community and media hype and support that a NT Team 20 decision would generate - especially if the funding shortfall is being addressed by the commonwealth government.

Ridiculous as it may seem you indeed might be right.

 

[RedV3x]

I just don’t think North members or their Board will agree to be Northern Kangaroos..

That would certainly seem to be true after recent discussions.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Whilst I think WA3 and Canberra are better team 20 candidates than Darwin, I unfortunately fear that you may be right about NT being team 20. If Albo is giving $600 million to PNG for a NRL team, there will be considerable pressure for him to fund a NT team especially given his passion for indigenous issues. All objective metrics will be disregarded due to the “feel good” factor, and general community and media hype and support that a NT Team 20 decision would generate - especially if the funding shortfall is being addressed by the commonwealth government.

How much would it cost to fund a AFL team in the NT?

 

[Walshawk]

I agree with you that Canberra is a better candidate for Team 20 than NT (even in combination with NQ). However, I am pessimistic about Canberra’s chances of having a team by 2032.

The ACT Government has significant budgetary concerns due to the expenditure on the Trams, has issues with NRL and other rectangular codes that want a vastly more expensive new stadium, and seem content with the current status quo agreement with the Giants. This contrasts to the active lobbying by the NT Government for Team 20, where they have a business case already and have established a formal taskforce.

In this ACT election year there has been no grassroots campaign for Canberra to have an AFL team 20, and people seem content with the status quo as evidenced by the sellout crowds for the Giants games. The main sports related grassroots campaign in Canberra was to save the beloved Canberra United female soccer team from folding, with all major Canberra media outlets publicising it and petitions formally presented to our Legislative Assembly- and even then the cash strapped Barr government reluctantly gave a one off $200k and brought forward the $250k annual payment from the future year. This only guarantees Canberra United playing at the elite female national soccer competition for a year though.

The sporting landscape is difficult already, and I find it hard to see where additional ACT government $ and sponsorships can be obtained for a full time AFL Team 20 in Canberra. Even though a decision was given for a Canberra men’s team to join the ALeague soccer, this had been formally delayed by a year due to financing difficulties. We are also pushing to get a cricket BBL franchise, and with Rugby Australia committing to Brumbies staying in Canberra till 2025, the government and private sector may need to offer additional $ to keep the Brumbies here.

Agree there is very little push from Canberra for a team. But that did not stop the AFL with GC and GWS.

Canberra is the only place without a team that would come remotely close to being able to sustain a team. It will all come down to government funding like it did with Tasmania.

The AFL will be in no hurry here. Until someone comes up with the $$$, they will happily sit at 19 teams.